“Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.”

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
sbu Regular Member • Posts: 234
No fear
2

Don’t read too much into the trolling of a few individuals. The fate of MFT does not depend on the comments section. I believe most DPR visisters never read the comments.

Let’s instead enjoy panasonic has released a fast standard zoom. I’m not personally interested in the short focal length of this lens, but if they would release something similar for 35mm - 75mm it would get really interesting.

 sbu's gear list:sbu's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 15mm F1.7 ASPH
flbdig Contributing Member • Posts: 570
Re: “Fear is the path...
4

Unfortunately all you can do is laugh or ignore them. Because M43 forum has people who want M43 to cost little or nothing, to be super tiny, but give IQ of medium format  Lol. Unrealistic, Defy the Laws of Physics, type of people.

The rule should be that if you don't own a product or are not planning to buy it, then you don't comment! Lol!

In reality, the PL 10-25mm f1.7 IS UNPRECEDENTED, there has Never been any company that has created this EFL at f1.7, no matter the size or cost. It's an Engineering Masterpiece and people still jump on the Negative Bandwagon, especially Non-professional photographers who don't think M43 companies should develop gear for pros. These people were Never going to buy a lens like this. So why are they committing?

I shoot with a Leica and Panasonic S1R also and those forums are really different from the M43 forum. Less negative comments, more realistic ideas and a Whole lot less post in general. Probably because those people are actually out taking pictures. Lol.

-- hide signature --

https://www.1cor1313.com/
1Co 13:13 But now we still have faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is LOVE!!!

 flbdig's gear list:flbdig's gear list
Leica Q2 Sony a7 II Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 +16 more
tt321
tt321 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,726
Re: Counterproductive
3

Happy Daze wrote:

What can we (as a group or as individuals) do about it?

The more you respond with posts like this the more negativity you encourage.

The sooner these people realise that their antagonism is falling upon deaf ears the sooner it will stop.

Whilst philosophically this sounds nice, it does not work these days.

People create echo chambers and amplify and re-amplify everything, without outside participation.

The key is not to read, if you do not enjoy reading it, or read only when you enjoy reading it. What 'these people' do is outside of what you/I should care about.

alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,875
A big big smile :-)

... since those who do not use M43 will never use M43 no matter what and how we explained.

We are the actual user of the system (and this lens?) and if it can keep us happy, why have to concern with others?

-- hide signature --

Albert

 alcelc's gear list:alcelc's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic G85 +10 more
Pete_W
Pete_W Senior Member • Posts: 1,128
Ignore them and enjoy your gear.
3

Thorgrem wrote:

This Friday Panasonic officially announced the 10-25 f/1.7 with all the details about prices, weight and so on.

<snip>

The articles are just fine, also the video that is done. The problem is the reactions under the articles. Some people are going savage about it. The seize, the price, small sensor. And so on.

Obviously DPR isn't going to do anything about it because it generates a huge amount of clicks.

But this negativity is bad for our system we use and would like to continue to use.

What can we (as a group or as individuals) do about it?

My guess is that many FF camera users have a nagging insecurity that a smaller and generally less expensive format can perform so well which makes their investment look silly.

And they are probably irritated that Pany and Oly keep releasing great lenses more regularly than Nikon, Canon or Sony.

Just ignore them. Enjoy your gear.

-- hide signature --

Pete

 Pete_W's gear list:Pete_W's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 15mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G 42.5mm F1.7 Panasonic 12-60mm F3.5-5.6 OIS +3 more
Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 24,983
Re: Ignore them and enjoy your gear.
2

Pete_W wrote:

users have a nagging insecurity that a smaller and generally less expensive format can perform so well which makes their investment look silly.

seen that a few times here it has to be said

 Wu Jiaqiu's gear list:Wu Jiaqiu's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Nikon D2Xs Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D ED-IF Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II +1 more
justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,569
Re: Ignore them and enjoy your gear.
7

Pete_W wrote:

My guess is that many FF camera users have a nagging insecurity...

No, the problem is that when you buy a Sony FF mirrorless camera, you become a member of an obnoxious religious cult.

GGD Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Ignore them and enjoy your gear.
3

I have to say I am a fan of m43, it's not a religious or emotional thing, I just love the practical aspects of the system, for me it seems to give the best of all worlds for the money and ease of convenience (size)....and since it provides the benefits of more than one company making cameras, and since they have become quite innovative, it makes other systems pale in comparison,.....I have so much gratitude I might have to go buy another camera or lens...lol

 GGD's gear list:GGD's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Kodak DC265 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ30 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Panasonic G85 +10 more
Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,651
Re: Ignore them and enjoy your gear.
11

justmeMN wrote:

Pete_W wrote:

My guess is that many FF camera users have a nagging insecurity...

No, the problem is that when you buy a Sony FF mirrorless camera, you become a member of an obnoxious religious cult.

Really? I have one but am no cultist. What I do see is a lot of immature people of all persuasions making utter fools of themselves. They are not even clever enough to know that they are making themselves look like morons. That's the interweb thing for you, typically but sadly. It gives voice to cretins. Ones that are very easy to ignore.

 Aberaeron's gear list:Aberaeron's gear list
Fujifilm X20 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Sony a7 III +23 more
jvwpentax
jvwpentax New Member • Posts: 23
Re: No fear

sbu wrote:

Don’t read too much into the trolling of a few individuals. The fate of MFT does not depend on the comments section. I believe most DPR visisters never read the comments.

I hardly ever read those comments, unless an item really interests me ...

Let’s instead enjoy panasonic has released a fast standard zoom. I’m not personally interested in the short focal length of this lens, but if they would release something similar for 35mm - 75mm it would get really interesting.

Indeed, actually the new PL 10-25mm is one of the reasons I am considering adding m43 to my current Pentax gear (FF and APSC, about 30 lenses), and use it for most of my photography.

The main reason is weight and features (of the G9 body plus PL 100-400mm specifically)

This new zoom, although heavy and large for m43, also makes it a great indoor substitute for my Pentax gear, and not really heavier/larger.

At the moment my 'dream' m43 setup would be

- G9 body

- PL 10-25 zoom (for indoor and landscape)

- PL 14-140 zoom as walk about / vacation use

- PL 100-400 for wildlife and birding

However, the 14-140 while very small and light, will probably not deliver teh same IQ as the other lenses, and is not a fast lens either at 5.6.

So, yes, a new PL 20-80 F/2.0 or even F/2.8 would be very welcome

Regards, JvW

PS: The 36MP FF Pentax K1 would certainly stay as well, for landscape

 jvwpentax's gear list:jvwpentax's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax K-1 Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM +14 more
Skeeterbytes Forum Pro • Posts: 16,574
Re: Fear not on the dark side Luke, for I am your father
7

I carry a soapbox for just such occasions. Here it is now.

Micro four-thirds is a decade-old system in its maturation phase. As such, a good deal of product development is rightfully directed at filling holes with niche products. Why the 10-25? Because we didn't have a fast, wide video-centric zoom lens and there is no market for, say, another "standard zoom" they could have developed instead. The forthcoming bigger than big super tele zoom will fill a very different niche and will attract even fewer buyers than the 10-25, but could well be even more important to m4/3's maturation.

The photography industry has plateaued and is presently in decline. Job 1 is keeping current users in their system and not jumping to another. That's the short-term goal. Job 2 is far more important: attracting phone photographers to the system. To do that, a complete toolbox of gear is required and m4/3 is in the midst of the stocking of its box.

"But, where's my [insert pet imaginary camera/lens]?" as frequently lamented in camera forums can be helpful when forward-directed but is market poison when the gaze is directed backward. 2008 is done and buried.

Box stowed until next time.

Cheers,

Dad

-- hide signature --

Equivalence and diffraction-free since 2009.
You can be too; ask about our 12-step program.

Kaso Veteran Member • Posts: 4,480
Re: Suffering? You create your own. So, stop.
11

Thorgrem wrote:

But this negativity is bad for our system we use and would like to continue to use.

Nah. It does not bother me at all.

Bad for "our" system -- in what way? -- "we" use and would like to continue to use -- who has the power to stop "us"?

I put the "we" and "us" words in quotes because I don't feel comfortable about them. I don't belong to any group, gang, club, tribe, whatever...

What can we (as a group or as individuals) do about it?

Ignore it. Do whatever you buy your photography gear for.

AshleyMC Regular Member • Posts: 252
Re: What is the problem?
11

Thorgrem wrote:

This Friday Panasonic officially announced the 10-25 f/1.7 with all the details about prices, weight and so on.

. . . blah . . . blah . . . blah . . .

But this negativity is bad for our system we use and would like to continue to use.

What can we (as a group or as individuals) do about it?

What is the problem? Is there a problem?

Perhaps the problems lies in your raising this non-problem nonsense as a problem.

I use all kinds of cameras and lenses by different brands. MFT is nothing so special which is "under severe attack" (really?) that I must do something about.

I simply enjoy photography. I don't belong to any cult, including the imaginary MFT cult, nor do I identify with any technology.

Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,651
Hear hear! N/T
4

AshleyMC wrote:

Thorgrem wrote:

This Friday Panasonic officially announced the 10-25 f/1.7 with all the details about prices, weight and so on.

. . . blah . . . blah . . . blah . . .

But this negativity is bad for our system we use and would like to continue to use.

What can we (as a group or as individuals) do about it?

What is the problem? Is there a problem?

Perhaps the problems lies in your raising this non-problem nonsense as a problem.

I use all kinds of cameras and lenses by different brands. MFT is nothing so special which is "under severe attack" (really?) that I must do something about.

I simply enjoy photography. I don't belong to any cult, including the imaginary MFT cult, nor do I identify with any technology.

 Aberaeron's gear list:Aberaeron's gear list
Fujifilm X20 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Sony a7 III +23 more
norman shearer Senior Member • Posts: 1,208
Don't worry - be happy
2

Shutting down free speech is certainly not the answer - there's plenty of that going on in the world already. If you only want to read nice things about gear you like then you wish to live in a bubble. No one side is right about everything so it's wise to step outside the fanclub and take in the whole scene now and then. Only cults and ideologies result from shutting out undesirable noise.

Also accepting that large/heavy and/or expensive gear is a very niche market and therefore the number of naysayers will exponentially rise is a given.

I think the format differences are splitting hairs to be honest, I've been through most of them and none were bad. I closed my Ebay account and now only appear on here infrequently because I'm not looking for new gear now. I'm done searching for that elusive perfect camera! It's really rather refreshing being happy with what you have and focussing on taking better pictures and working on my post processing skills and saving a shedload of money in the process.

I believe cameras are getting to that stage in their life where pixel peeping is needed to see any progress. To me that is absurd. Would you pixel peep a painting? Sadly this means the camera business is in steep decline no matter what the manufacturers do but that's okay by me - I don't owe them a living.

 norman shearer's gear list:norman shearer's gear list
Samsung EX2F Nikon Coolpix A Sony RX1R Fujifilm X30 Canon EOS 5D +8 more
sbu Regular Member • Posts: 234
Re: No fear
1

jvwpentax wrote:

sbu wrote:

Don’t read too much into the trolling of a few individuals. The fate of MFT does not depend on the comments section. I believe most DPR visisters never read the comments.

I hardly ever read those comments, unless an item really interests me ...

Let’s instead enjoy panasonic has released a fast standard zoom. I’m not personally interested in the short focal length of this lens, but if they would release something similar for 35mm - 75mm it would get really interesting.

Indeed, actually the new PL 10-25mm is one of the reasons I am considering adding m43 to my current Pentax gear (FF and APSC, about 30 lenses), and use it for most of my photography.

The main reason is weight and features (of the G9 body plus PL 100-400mm specifically)

This new zoom, although heavy and large for m43, also makes it a great indoor substitute for my Pentax gear, and not really heavier/larger.

At the moment my 'dream' m43 setup would be

- G9 body

- PL 10-25 zoom (for indoor and landscape)

- PL 14-140 zoom as walk about / vacation use

- PL 100-400 for wildlife and birding

However, the 14-140 while very small and light, will probably not deliver teh same IQ as the other lenses, and is not a fast lens either at 5.6.

So, yes, a new PL 20-80 F/2.0 or even F/2.8 would be very welcome

Regards, JvW

PS: The 36MP FF Pentax K1 would certainly stay as well, for landscape

You won’t go wrong with that combo. Panasonic g9 is an awesome camera. I haven’t touched my small Om-d em10 after I got the g9. I even find the top lcd very useful even though others thinks it ridicolous. It allows be to adjust settings before composing the shut.

 sbu's gear list:sbu's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 15mm F1.7 ASPH
nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 16,591
Thanks :-)
5

justmeMN wrote:

Pete_W wrote:

My guess is that many FF camera users have a nagging insecurity...

No, the problem is that when you buy a Sony FF mirrorless camera, you become a member of an obnoxious religious cult.

Totally unlike the god like figures of the m4/3 forum huh I love my Sony's just as much as I do m4/3, but thanks anyway

All the best.

Danny.

JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 3,626
Re: “Fear is the path to the dark side…
3

You can put your own comment there, give thumbs up to comments you agree with, (and buy the lens if it fits your needs), but other than that, I don't think any sort of "retaliatory" measures make sense as that makes you no better than the people you are complaining about.

And as a whole, the negative comments don't matter anyway. You are giving too much credit to DP Review comments. I doubt that they will have any significant impact on the sales of this lens. The features of the lens speak for themselves and the articles are very positive. Probably pretty much all of the people complaining would never consider a similar lens anyways or don't have a MFT camera nor are considering one.

Personally I don't have an interest in the lens, but I'm glad it's a choice in the system.

 JakeJY's gear list:JakeJY's gear list
Nikon Coolpix S9300 Nikon D5000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR +5 more
Pixnat2
Pixnat2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,767
Buy the lens
3

That's the best thing you could do as an individual for m43 survival, if you worry about it.

-- hide signature --
 Pixnat2's gear list:Pixnat2's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Sony a7R II Fujifilm X-T2
OP (unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 769
Re: Buy the lens

Pixnat2 wrote:

That's the best thing you could do as an individual for m43 survival, if you worry about it.

Gotta catch 'em all!

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads