Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

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as1mov
as1mov Contributing Member • Posts: 684
Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
4

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

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beatboxa Senior Member • Posts: 5,733
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
16

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Because most youtubers are dumb and exist in a resonance chamber.

When one person says something dumb, others restate it, which then reinforces the first person and others to reference what others have said, etc.

The entire point of Eye-AF is so that you don't have to select the focus point.  It's like complaining that your automatic transmission car doesn't come with a stick shifter.

Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 7,753
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

That's actually not technically correct. You can still set the AF point using object tracking via the OK button while in Auto-Area mode. Not exactly the same as a traditional AF point but it gets the job done in a pinch.

Varuas Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
4

beatboxa wrote:

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Because most youtubers are dumb and exist in a resonance chamber.

When one person says something dumb, others restate it, which then reinforces the first person and others to reference what others have said, etc.

The entire point of Eye-AF is so that you don't have to select the focus point. It's like complaining that your automatic transmission car doesn't come with a stick shifter.

I love my Z6's Eye-AF, very accurate and fast, with options to change eyes/people with the button. But sometimes I wish it was more intuitive. Nothing that can't be added in the firmware. So, let Nikon take some heat. As Z owners, we will only gain from these. Why are people worried about Youtube comments? Because Nikon will not sell as many Z6/7 ? If so, they will lower the price even more (might prompt me to buy another Z6 for my 3D setup).

tl;dr - as Z owners, we have only to gain. Let Nikon take some heat so that they add more/improved features in firmware. Sony's FF mirrorless has years of headstart. It is only natural for Z owners to ask Nikon for something that is comparable to Sony.

Sincerely, a Nikon fan.

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beatboxa Senior Member • Posts: 5,733
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
3

Varuas wrote:

beatboxa wrote:

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Because most youtubers are dumb and exist in a resonance chamber.

When one person says something dumb, others restate it, which then reinforces the first person and others to reference what others have said, etc.

The entire point of Eye-AF is so that you don't have to select the focus point. It's like complaining that your automatic transmission car doesn't come with a stick shifter.

I love my Z6's Eye-AF, very accurate and fast, with options to change eyes/people with the button. But sometimes I wish it was more intuitive. Nothing that can't be added in the firmware. So, let Nikon take some heat. As Z owners, we will only gain from these. Why are people worried about Youtube comments? Because Nikon will not sell as many Z6/7 ? If so, they will lower the price even more (might prompt me to buy another Z6 for my 3D setup).

tl;dr - as Z owners, we have only to gain. Let Nikon take some heat so that they add more/improved features in firmware. Sony's FF mirrorless has years of headstart. It is only natural for Z owners to ask Nikon for something that is comparable to Sony.

Sincerely, a Nikon fan.

What do you expect to gain in terms of intuition? And actually, I do expect a loss with Nikon listening to poor feedback such as this.

The concept of an autofocus point conflicts with the core concept of any sort of subject identification (be it eye or face). That's why they have different modes. Subject identification is inherently an auto-area mode.

Auto-area means: "Let the camera pick my AF point(s)."
Selecting the focus point means "Let me pick my AF point(s)."

These are fundamental oppositions.

I don't want to be confused with whether or not the camera is automatically prioritizing the face or the AF point I selected. Which happens first? Does the camera automatically reacquire on an eye as soon as it suddenly detects one again, overriding my choice? Do I override the camera? Does it show both my AF point and the face and the eyes?

So yes, there is something to be lost and really nothing to gain in this case.

Of course, other aspects, such as ability to toggling auto-area to override current mode via one button are a different topic.  That's not what this topic is about.

gestaltdev Junior Member • Posts: 40
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
2

Good point.

we should have more complaints about Sony’s ergonomics. Poor AF wrt to the D850 and Canon so that Sony will improve and prompt Nikon to also improve. It’s only natural Nikon and Canon are years ahead of Sony so Sony fans will want to have what Canon and Nikon have.

inlawbiker Senior Member • Posts: 1,834
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Asking because I am considering a Z6. Do you have 1) press fn button to select AF mode, then 2) select the mode, then 3) move the AF point where you want it? If so that is a minimum 3 clicks. Seems like a valid complaint to me.

Olympus has face detection and it's OK at finding the face. If it can't find a face, if you press the directional pad the AF box is instantly moved that direction, so it''s only 1 press.

So in my mind ideally on the Z cameras, if face/eye detection isn't working if you just move the joystick the AF box should appear start to move around.

I like how Olympus does this, except that the face detection is only good at drawing a box around the face, giving you the impression your subject will be in focus. Unfortunately it's not so good at the actual focusing part.

Greg.

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Varuas Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

beatboxa wrote:

Varuas wrote:

beatboxa wrote:

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Because most youtubers are dumb and exist in a resonance chamber.

When one person says something dumb, others restate it, which then reinforces the first person and others to reference what others have said, etc.

The entire point of Eye-AF is so that you don't have to select the focus point. It's like complaining that your automatic transmission car doesn't come with a stick shifter.

I love my Z6's Eye-AF, very accurate and fast, with options to change eyes/people with the button. But sometimes I wish it was more intuitive. Nothing that can't be added in the firmware. So, let Nikon take some heat. As Z owners, we will only gain from these. Why are people worried about Youtube comments? Because Nikon will not sell as many Z6/7 ? If so, they will lower the price even more (might prompt me to buy another Z6 for my 3D setup).

tl;dr - as Z owners, we have only to gain. Let Nikon take some heat so that they add more/improved features in firmware. Sony's FF mirrorless has years of headstart. It is only natural for Z owners to ask Nikon for something that is comparable to Sony.

Sincerely, a Nikon fan.

What do you expect to gain in terms of intuition? And actually, I do expect a loss with Nikon listening to poor feedback such as this.

The concept of an autofocus point conflicts with the core concept of any sort of subject identification (be it eye or face). That's why they have different modes. Subject identification is inherently an auto-area mode.

Auto-area means: "Let the camera pick my AF point(s)."
Selecting the focus point means "Let me pick my AF point(s)."

These are fundamental oppositions.

I don't want to be confused with whether or not the camera is automatically prioritizing the face or the AF point I selected. Which happens first? Does the camera automatically reacquire on an eye as soon as it suddenly detects one again, overriding my choice? Do I override the camera? Does it show both my AF point and the face and the eyes?

So yes, there is something to be lost and really nothing to gain in this case.

Of course, other aspects, such as ability to toggling auto-area to override current mode via one button are a different topic. That's not what this topic is about.

I'm pretty sure the complaints regarding this would be addressed (for the most part) if the intuitive toggling is added in the future firmware update. So, imo, this is perfectly on topic. And I hope Nikon is listening.

As far as junk feedback from the users, I'm pretty sure Nikon would not be spending time on those (considering a lot of valid improvements can be made).

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beatboxa Senior Member • Posts: 5,733
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
1

inlawbiker wrote:

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Asking because I am considering a Z6. Do you have 1) press fn button to select AF mode, then 2) select the mode, then 3) move the AF point where you want it? If so that is a minimum 3 clicks. Seems like a valid complaint to me.

Olympus has face detection and it's OK at finding the face. If it can't find a face, if you press the directional pad the AF box is instantly moved that direction, so it''s only 1 press.

So in my mind ideally on the Z cameras, if face/eye detection isn't working if you just move the joystick the AF box should appear start to move around.

I like how Olympus does this, except that the face detection is only good at drawing a box around the face, giving you the impression your subject will be in focus. Unfortunately it's not so good at the actual focusing part.

Greg.

No. You just have to be in AF-A mode. If you are not already in AF-A, you would:

  1. Press Fn button (or whichever you've customized) to select AF mode
  2. Select AF-A mode.

That's it.

I would much rather that this isn't an "always on" feature. Because if I am in single-point mode, it's because I want to be and I want to select my AF point. I would not like to have face or eye detection override my single point I've selected.

Many of these complaints & complications are because people are unwilling to actually take control of their cameras. They want the glamour & ego-food of being able to say they shoot manual, but they want the camera to do everything automatically.  The solution is simple:  use the right mode for what you want to accomplish.  If you want a point and shoot, then set it up as such.

Mikspin
Mikspin Forum Member • Posts: 79
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
3

If you want to bypass all of the fn buttons and menu options, set up the AF options in the U1, U2, and U3. I have U1 set up with auto area and af-c. This option gives me eye focus option. You can still pick the tracking start point by the ok button.

AF-S small point option is 1st operation in U2.

AF-C dynamic tracking is 1st operation in U3

All three U selections have Back button AF only, and AE lock on the shutter. In actual operation I can shift from the best three autofocus options by simply turning to U1, U2, or U3 whatever my preference. If I have the time and wish to change the autofocus configuration, while in the particular U selection, I make the changes on the fn2 button, which is the defacto position for autofocus button change. Just remember that if you turn the camera off, when you turn it back on, the autofocus will revert to the setup autofocus, that you programed into the U setting.

Try it, you'll like it.

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beatboxa Senior Member • Posts: 5,733
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
1

Mikspin wrote:

If you want to bypass all of the fn buttons and menu options, set up the AF options in the U1, U2, and U3. I have U1 set up with auto area and af-c. This option gives me eye focus option. You can still pick the tracking start point by the ok button.

AF-S small point option is 1st operation in U2.

AF-C dynamic tracking is 1st operation in U3

All three U selections have Back button AF only, and AE lock on the shutter. In actual operation I can shift from the best three autofocus options by simply turning to U1, U2, or U3 whatever my preference. If I have the time and wish to change the autofocus configuration, while in the particular U selection, I make the changes on the fn2 button, which is the defacto position for autofocus button change. Just remember that if you turn the camera off, when you turn it back on, the autofocus will revert to the setup autofocus, that you programed into the U setting.

Try it, you'll like it.

Thanks, though I am well aware of how to use these, like I wrote about half-a-year ago when the Z6 was first released:

What you may not realize is that these are obviously not the same as only changing an AF mode however.  They'll change every other setting as well, which may not be what you want.

Mikspin
Mikspin Forum Member • Posts: 79
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

The camera U settings will not affect the other U functions if they are all the same, except for the autofocus. Mike

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Cato1040
Cato1040 Senior Member • Posts: 2,706
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

It might not be a big deal to most but some people like having control of their eye-AF areas. I think some people making comments here are forgetting that sometimes, people shoot with more than one person (and therefore eyes) in the frame. It's possible that you could cycle between eyes afterwards, but it would be faster and more accurate if you could pre-select the area. I doubt the ability of selecting smaller areas for eye-AF is that valuable to most but I've used it and I guess from the videos you're mentioning others do too. It shouldn't be too hard for Nikon to include this in a later firmware update but I'm not sure how many people would care.

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douglas_robert Junior Member • Posts: 37
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

if you're using eye auto and the person turns their back to you or moves so the camera doesn't  see the eyes.. . than it would be nice to move the focus point so the camera isn't lost and hunting or focusing on something you don't wan't

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z2122
z2122 Contributing Member • Posts: 889
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I have also one button dedicated to AF - it is the Fn1 button on the dront. to choose thean the mode I have to use one of the two dials.

Have you another selection or a faster one?

I stopped listen to youtubers - eye AF is very good for me. The users on this website are my main source for experience and there is a lot of wise advise here

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beatboxa Senior Member • Posts: 5,733
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

Mikspin wrote:

The camera U settings will not affect the other U functions if they are all the same, except for the autofocus. Mike

It affects all functions.  If they are the same, you won't notice, even if they are changed.

But I don't keep all settings exactly the same all the time, including things like shutter speed.  Here's an example:  I have created an "action" mode for myself.  In this, I set:

  • Shutter speed to 1/2000 (my default)
  • Raw to 12-bit lossless to improve burst speed and buffer depth
  • AF-C, dynamic area
  • (I wish I could also save the shutter release type to continuous-high)

If I'm shooting sports, I may want to alternate between turning face & eye-AF on (when people are running toward me) and dynamic area (where I am trying to track a ball).  If I use the U1 as the above, not only do I have to get out of the EVF and change the upper dial between U1 and shutter priority, I'd also have to reset the shutter speed in-between toggles; and every time I go back into U1, I'll start at 1/2000 again.

And this is very different from my "landscape" mode, where I'll use 14-bit, AF-S, and pinpoint.  If I'm travelling, I may want to frequently swap between this and portraits of family and friends.  But I can't use that U1 above, because I'd have to manually reset the shutter speed, raw bit depth, etc.

So it's really not the same thing.  It works in one and only one scenario:  where you never change any setting other than autofocus mode.  If this is how you shoot, great.  But I don't shoot like this, and I doubt most Z6 / Z7 shooters do either.

Mikspin
Mikspin Forum Member • Posts: 79
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

It seems that we both have developed a means of speeding up the tweaking process. Personally I have little problem with the default settings for auto functions such as minimum shutter speeds set to 2x, no matter what the lens. Also improving the buffer will hopefully not be necessary once the new card type is available. For my action requirements, they are fine. What is not fine though, is the type of autofocus required to perform best under unknown  future lighting conditions. The three touch approach, is not acceptable for spontaneous acquisition. For my needs, I have found that using the U1, U2, and U3 settings to one step a quick  auto focus lock is a fix that I can live with. It is still not universal but the hit percentage improves greatly. Future software improvements will hopefully make this unnecessary as well. Nikons' first firmware update has helped dramatically. More is needed though. Hopefully, they are coming in short order. Now if I could only get the joystick center button to switch to Highlight weighted metering instead of matrix without having to implement a two button motion ( A quick one button fix for the spotlight sequences is needed). Usually, those spotlights result in blown highlights.They are quick and generally an unknown ( to the audience), as to when they occur. The faster that I can accommodate them, the better off.Mike

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FujLiver
FujLiver Contributing Member • Posts: 687
no accounting for morons

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

by definition face detect doesn't use a focus point

its mutually exclusive

the i button can be used to quickly switch between modes. i switch between fine spot and area for face detect. even quicker you can assign a function key but this is unecessary for me.

when face detect is being used, left and right joystick switch between face

perfect ....

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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 11,088
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF
2

What you are missing:

The whining and whinging of people who want everything done for them and are not willing to learn what their very sophisticated camera is capable of.

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SaltyPeanut
SaltyPeanut Contributing Member • Posts: 929
Re: Youtubers' complaint about Eye-AF

inlawbiker wrote:

as1mov wrote:

Hi,

I have heard a complaint by many youtubers that with the Eye-AF you have to select Auto-Area mode leaving you than no option to select the focus point.

I have reconfigured one of the function buttons to select the auto-focus area mode, so whenever I do not want the Eye-AF or the Eye-AF is for some reason stuck I can switch back to, say, single-point or wide-are.

It takes a fraction of second to operate the change, so why is everybody saying that this is a limitation of the Eye-AF?

Maybe I am missing something.

Asking because I am considering a Z6. Do you have 1) press fn button to select AF mode, then 2) select the mode, then 3) move the AF point where you want it? If so that is a minimum 3 clicks. Seems like a valid complaint to me.

You press a button and scroll a wheel to get into the AF mode for it and you're done. Once you're in that mode the camera automatically begins to track eyes/faces. You don't move the AF point around.

Olympus has face detection and it's OK at finding the face. If it can't find a face, if you press the directional pad the AF box is instantly moved that direction, so it''s only 1 press.

So in my mind ideally on the Z cameras, if face/eye detection isn't working if you just move the joystick the AF box should appear start to move around.

If face/eye isn't working you cannot move the AF point around (in auto AF mode). You have 2 options at this point - hit the OK button once to initiate subject tracking, then move the AF box that pops up where you want it and hit the AF-ON button to start tracking (keeps tracking even when AF-ON button is not held down but only refocuses with AF-ON button), or option 2 you switch to another AF mode (a button press + wheel scroll). Both options are quick to implement once you've developed muscle memory.

I like how Olympus does this, except that the face detection is only good at drawing a box around the face, giving you the impression your subject will be in focus. Unfortunately it's not so good at the actual focusing part.

Greg.

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