Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

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FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
4

did Sony bugger something up?

I blindly upgraded the FW in my 2 A7r3''s and then was disappointed.  Why? After reading Lloyd Chambers blog about Sony ruining its eye-AF for the A7r3 I just did a rough test and sadly, after duplicating a few times I cannot now trust them to do Eye-Af.  Here is one obvious result:

Eye-AF, Wide Area:

Eye-AF, Wide Area - (also occurs w/Flexible Spot)

Eye-Sf OFF -- Flexible spot focused directly on the eye:

Tomorrow I can try this on a few other lenses to further confirm but havr sny of you seen this behaviour?  Or is it just me?

Jim

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WalterJ1959 Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

I have had no problem with the upgrade.  Is face detect set to human or animal?  and turned on? is prefocus set to off?  Are you half pressing the shutter then taking the shot after you see the box on the eye? AF-C mode etc?

I usually use Zone and not wide so their is a difference between us.

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

WalterJ1959 wrote:

I have had no problem with the upgrade. Is face detect set to human or animal? and turned on? is prefocus set to off? Are you half pressing the shutter then taking the shot after you see the box on the eye? AF-C mode etc?

I usually use Zone and not wide so their is a difference between us.

Human, and ON (miss-focus) First focus on eye then shutter pressed after box, and AF-S

Jim

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WalterJ1959 Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
11

FastJimmy wrote:

and AF-S

Jim

At 1/60 sec and AF-S you may be having both you and the subject moving after you lock focus.  I would suggest AF-C not AF-S

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NatureBX Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
12

Must set on AF-C for EyeAF to work well.

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

WalterJ1959 wrote:

FastJimmy wrote:

and AF-S

Jim

At 1/60 sec and AF-S you may be having both you and the subject moving after you lock focus. I would suggest AF-C not AF-S

I tested multiple times in Af-S making sure we were both stable.  No eye_AF and flexible spot is what you see and is reproducible.  AF-C is slightly better but this did not hsppen prior to 3..0.

I will test my A9 this afternoon.

Jim

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

NatureBX wrote:

Must set on AF-C for EyeAF to work well.

It works a bit better but was flawless in AF-S prior to the upgrade.

Jim

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WalterJ1959 Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
2

FastJimmy wrote:

NatureBX wrote:

Must set on AF-C for EyeAF to work well.

It works a bit better but was flawless in AF-S prior to the upgrade.

Check what your shutter speed and apature were was on the good shots and compare.

Jim

Is IBIS (steady shot) on? it should be at your settings. and shutter release for autofocus set to balanced emphasis?  after an upgrade you should review all critical focus settings.   I would feel better about tests at faster shutter speeds like 1/100 sec.

Good luck, it is tough when things that should work are not.

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
85mm f/1.8 Slightly better..
3

But still inconsistent and that is troubling:

AF-C:

Af_S:

Jim

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lattesweden
lattesweden Senior Member • Posts: 2,922
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

Looks like the Batis 40/2 by Exif data? If so, which firmware on the lens?

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....

lattesweden wrote:

Looks like the Batis 40/2 by Exif data? If so, which firmware on the lens?

Upgraded firmware.

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lattesweden
lattesweden Senior Member • Posts: 2,922
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
1

FastJimmy wrote:

lattesweden wrote:

Looks like the Batis 40/2 by Exif data? If so, which firmware on the lens?

Upgraded firmware.

Ok, thanks!

I haven't seen any real world reports if that solved the earlier eye-af problems with that lens?

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/Anders
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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
What about the A9?
3

My A9 w/FW 5.0 is consistently sharp.

Bob

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Joohan
Joohan Contributing Member • Posts: 528
I rarely get sharp pics at that slow speed
1

Humans do move all the time and the ibis will only compensate your movements. Without flash you should be doing 400/1 at least. The high resolving sensors are really sensitive for very very small movements. Sometimes ibis in itself can create blurry images if not taken a series of them and then pick the sharp ones.

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: I rarely get sharp pics at that slow speed

Joohan wrote:

Humans do move all the time and the ibis will only compensate your movements. Without flash you should be doing 400/1 at least. The high resolving sensors are really sensitive for very very small movements. Sometimes ibis in itself can create blurry images if not taken a series of them and then pick the sharp ones.

I concur.

However, even though not completely scientific I chose not to use a tripod nor did I place the subject's head in a vise.    However I did stabilize my arm and hand..  and also made as sure as could be that my subject was as still as possible.  The fact I was able to get an extremely sharp result using AF-C proved to me that, even at the speeds used, that the combo of lens/cam can get a sharp result.

The whole issue is of some concern during events when it may not be convenient to take 10 or 15 photos of the same subject and choose the best.  Generally I use flash and bump up the aperture as high as 7.1.  That obviously allows a greater DOF but when I decide to shoot f/2 or lower there may be an issue.

Lastly as I stated in another post, the A7r3 w/FW 1.1 (yup, early) was uncanny at eye-AF.  Even my A7r2 was just as good...as well as my A9's.  The current FW, at least in my hands requires a workaround and can be dealt with.  Admittedly it may be just me, but I've been shooting for a very long time and have stayed with Sony because of great innovation and,, most importantly an eye-AF that makes my life a lot easier.  Sadly, it has just gotten a little harder.

Jim,

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joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 5,341
a camera test with respect to any AF functionality with a 3rd party lens is pointless

Even with the OEM lenses sometimes compatibility issues kick in.

That's why I strictly buy AF lenses from the OEM. Only in case the AF functionality is less critical e.g. for landscape or architecture (where I MF anyway) I buy 3rd party glass.

For portraiture the GM 85 and GM 135 are my favorite lenses. Eye-AF works best with AF-C in these situations.

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OP FastJimmy Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: a camera test with respect to any AF functionality with a 3rd party lens is pointless

joger wrote:

Even with the OEM lenses sometimes compatibility issues kick in.

That's why I strictly buy AF lenses from the OEM. Only in case the AF functionality is less critical e.g. for landscape or architecture (where I MF anyway) I buy 3rd party glass.

For portraiture the GM 85 and GM 135 are my favorite lenses. Eye-AF works best with AF-C in these situations.

However Zeiss has a very close relationship with Sony, so much so, that it seems to use the same upgrade software for its Batis line.  This is in contrast to Sigma, Tamron, etc.

Additionally the "failure" in my hands is in stark contrast to the test I made in the camera store last week when I tested the Batis (older FW) with the same A7r3 with the older FW.  So I rthink it is not as pointless as you assert.

Jim

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Alantkh Regular Member • Posts: 306
Re: Eye Af Test FW 3.01 -- Not Happy and Not Working Well -- Is it me or.....
2

FastJimmy wrote:

did Sony bugger something up?

I blindly upgraded the FW in my 2 A7r3''s and then was disappointed. Why? After reading Lloyd Chambers blog about Sony ruining its eye-AF for the A7r3 I just did a rough test and sadly, after duplicating a few times I cannot now trust them to do Eye-Af. Here is one obvious result:

Eye-AF, Wide Area:

Eye-AF, Wide Area - (also occurs w/Flexible Spot)

Eye-Sf OFF -- Flexible spot focused directly on the eye:

Tomorrow I can try this on a few other lenses to further confirm but havr sny of you seen this behaviour? Or is it just me?

Jim

I think so too. The eye af in my a7riii seems to be more inaccurate with both my sigma 40mm f1.4 and 135mm gm....

not scientific testing but I noticed the hit rate dropped. In fact, I am thinking of switching the face/eye detect off and just use AFC flexible spot.

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,164
Re: a camera test with respect to any AF functionality with a 3rd party lens is pointless

FastJimmy wrote:

joger wrote:

Even with the OEM lenses sometimes compatibility issues kick in.

That's why I strictly buy AF lenses from the OEM. Only in case the AF functionality is less critical e.g. for landscape or architecture (where I MF anyway) I buy 3rd party glass.

For portraiture the GM 85 and GM 135 are my favorite lenses. Eye-AF works best with AF-C in these situations.

However Zeiss has a very close relationship with Sony, so much so, that it seems to use the same upgrade software for its Batis line. This is in contrast to Sigma, Tamron, etc.

Additionally the "failure" in my hands is in stark contrast to the test I made in the camera store last week when I tested the Batis (older FW) with the same A7r3 with the older FW. So I rthink it is not as pointless as you assert.

as others have indicated, the pics that you first posted were shot at 1/60th, which is too slow to eliminate the camera movement variable, and since you didn't post full-size shots, no one can tell where the focus plane was at.

maybe someone else with the same gear as yours will weigh in, but I would suggest trying another lens, to confirm or disprove that it's a firmware issue with the body.

voronspb Senior Member • Posts: 1,115
Re: a camera test with respect to any AF functionality with a 3rd party lens is pointless
1

FastJimmy wrote:

However Zeiss has a very close relationship with Sony, so much so, that it seems to use the same upgrade software for its Batis line. This is in contrast to Sigma, Tamron, etc.

Not close enough, so it seems. In older Zony lenses only the optical unit supposedly had some relation to Zeiss, not MCU and firmware. Now Zeiss, Tamron and Sigma are seemingly in the same boat.

On phillipreeve.net website I saw a vague mention that not all AF problems with Batis 40 were solved in new FW. Also v.3 camera FW could have brought even more incompatibility.

All of above is pure speculation, of course.

P.S. IMHO 1/60 s is too slow for photos of people, unless they intentionally freeze before the camera. I prefer 1/125 s for normal shots and at least 1/250 s for moving people.

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