10D, anybody going to miss a spotmeter?

Started Mar 8, 2003 | Discussions
JimS Regular Member • Posts: 254
10D, anybody going to miss a spotmeter?

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

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Canon PowerShot S3 IS Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Nikon Coolpix P7100
bdnc Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
I don't think it is available on the Elan 7...

so it wouldn't surprise me that it is not there. Of course D30/D60 upgraders will not miss it, it wasn't there either.

I would miss it occasionally - it is on the 1D...

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

Nick Slaapt
Nick Slaapt Contributing Member • Posts: 781
I gona miss it...

Yes, I'm using the spotmeter on my CP 5700 often so I think I will miss it. But, in a few days I will be used to it, so, don't know if I really make a point of it... So, comon with the 10D, I'm waiting long enough now...

Nick.
Coolpix 5700 photos on: http://www.pbase.com/fnurck
And: http://www2.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=62842

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Joo Veteran Member • Posts: 4,106
Not really...

I'm usually in M-mode (on the dial) most of the time anyway. I'll usually take a reading either from a gray card or from my hand first, take a couple test shots, adjust based on test shots, and then leave it there for most of the time unless the lighting changes drastically.

Joo

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

-- hide signature --

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Canon EOS M
David Eaves Regular Member • Posts: 165
I'm a little confused...

about what your calling a spotmeter

From Phil's review page
Metering modes

• Evaluative 35 zone
• Partial (9% at center)
• Center-weighted average

Does this not mean that you can spot meter, in the centre of the frame (Partial), and if you move the camera around to where you want to meter, half press the shutter thus locking the exposure and then you can compose the shot again?

Is the spotmeter you mention one which you can move about the frame as desired? Which I can see would be useful, but the way I just described would actually work?

David

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

-- hide signature --
OP JimS Regular Member • Posts: 254
Re: I'm a little confused...

Maybe it's me thats confused. LOL

I was under the impression that spot metering was about 2% or less of the frame. If there is a certain portion of a scene that I want to be sure is exposed correctly, I would spot meter on that and use those readings to set my camera.

For example, I'm taking a shot of someone who is standing in the shade of a tree on a very bright day. I want to make sure that their facial features have the correct exposure, with thoughts that I MAY crop out everything else later. I take a spot meter check on their face and note the settings, then I set my camera and shoot, maybe even bracketing some.

Am I going about this all wrong? I always thought that spot would give me a more precise reading on a particular area. Hence my concern for lack of spotmeter. Always willing to learn...........

Maybe the 9% is just a larger spot. LOL

David Eaves wrote:
about what your calling a spotmeter

From Phil's review page
Metering modes

• Evaluative 35 zone
• Partial (9% at center)
• Center-weighted average

Does this not mean that you can spot meter, in the centre of the
frame (Partial), and if you move the camera around to where you
want to meter, half press the shutter thus locking the exposure and
then you can compose the shot again?

Is the spotmeter you mention one which you can move about the frame
as desired? Which I can see would be useful, but the way I just
described would actually work?

David

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

 JimS's gear list:JimS's gear list
Canon PowerShot S3 IS Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Nikon Coolpix P7100
David Eaves Regular Member • Posts: 165
Re: I'm a little confused...

JimS wrote:

Maybe it's me thats confused. LOL

I think it was more me.. I've been doing some research..

I was under the impression that spot metering was about 2% or less
of the frame. If there is a certain portion of a scene that I want
to be sure is exposed correctly, I would spot meter on that and use
those readings to set my camera.

Your right about the 2% the 1Ds can do spot metering at 2.4% of the frame and also partial metering at 9%

Maybe the 9% is just a larger spot. LOL

I think that sums it up nicely. I think my Pro90 uses a spot metering mode of about 10-15% I've found it to be quite effective even at that size.

So I think in sumamry it has got partial metering just not as small a spot as you can get.

Thanks for your help

David
--
My Gallery: http://photogallery.davideaves.co.uk

james Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: I'm a little confused...

you are correct...pentax spotmeters measure a 1 degree area...very small..

on occasion i've used one in tandem with my d60...not that often though...

marianco
marianco Senior Member • Posts: 1,128
Re: 10D, anybody going to miss a spotmeter?

I think it is nice to have a spotmeter. However the 10D only has the partial area metering (about 9% compared to the 1-2% area of a spotmeter).

A work-around is to use zoom lenses. When shooting at the wide angle range of the zoom, zoom to the tele-angle, take a reading, lock the exposure, then zoom back to wide angle.

Another work-around is to bracket your exposures. It's cheap - costs nothing compared to film cameras. You can then optionally blend the photos to get a very wide dynamic range, using Photoshop, which you cannot get with one exposure, even if you have a spotmeter. You can also bring out detail in the underexposed areas in Photoshop - since there is a relatively large exposure latitude in underexposed areas in digital photos.

With the power of digital photography, and the ability to bracket exposures cheaply, a spotmeter is missed but not fully needed.

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

deevee Senior Member • Posts: 2,423
not really for....

when i bought my d60 i thought i'was gonna miss the spot meter...after using the matrix metering for almost everything, i found it was so accurate, there's no need for spot...the instant review allows u to see whether oor not the metering was 'correct' ...if not u can always bracket and shoot again...it's not a big deal NOT to have it imho...the 10d is supposed to be even more accurate than the d60...so have peace...it's No big deal
-----------------------------------------

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

Lisa Horton Contributing Member • Posts: 522
Re: 10D, anybody going to miss a spotmeter?

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

bdnc Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
The big differences between spot and partial are...

a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

Al Pacheco Senior Member • Posts: 2,189
Spot meters can be misleading at times

I've used a Pentax spotmeter for years. It is possible in many instances to get wrong readings due to high reflectance areas that your eye doesn't actually see. I like the nicely balanced 9% much better.

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

RichW Forum Pro • Posts: 12,790
Agreed, I like 9% better...

Gives a more balanced reading and is less effected by tiny reflections and such. Actually evaulative metering works fine most of the time for me. Just add a little compensation if needed.

Rich

Al Pacheco wrote:

I've used a Pentax spotmeter for years. It is possible in many
instances to get wrong readings due to high reflectance areas that
your eye doesn't actually see. I like the nicely balanced 9% much
better.

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T. G. O'Meara, Jr. Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Everyone is overlooking the obvious

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

A spotmeter just gives you the ability to place any given portion of your picture in the 18% gray area astride zones IV and V in St. Ansel's zone system. You can also calculate the differences in illumination and compress or extend the range between these values with exposure or developing... which makes spot meters great, right?

Well, yeah, but you have something better already built into your camera.

Learn (REALLY learn) the correct way to interpret a histogram and you will find you have just as much control (or more) over your exposures as you did doing all the zone calculations in your head.

Just take a proof shot and there you are. Study the histogram and place the exposures where you want them.

Too slow? Well sorry, but if that is too slow, you sure don't want to bother with a spot meter. Doing your exposure calculations with a spot meter is REALLY slow.

The histogram is your friend.

-- hide signature --

==Tom==--

Lisa Horton Contributing Member • Posts: 522
Re: The big differences between spot and partial are...

I'm well aware of the difference between a spot and partial meter:) Spot metering is my primary method. I don't like the multi-spot averaging function though, seems like it defeats the purpose of multi-spot metering, which is to decide how you want to fit the dynamic range of the scene into the limited dynamic range of your film or sensor.

Lsia

bdnc wrote:
a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least
the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure
which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

bdnc Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
Re: The big differences between spot and partial are...

Humm, I thought that WAS the point of multispot averaging, but what do I know?

I guess you are saying you prefer to calculate the compromise exposure yourself.

Lisa Horton wrote:
I'm well aware of the difference between a spot and partial meter:)
Spot metering is my primary method. I don't like the multi-spot
averaging function though, seems like it defeats the purpose of
multi-spot metering, which is to decide how you want to fit the
dynamic range of the scene into the limited dynamic range of your
film or sensor.

Lsia

bdnc wrote:
a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least
the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure
which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

Lisa Horton Contributing Member • Posts: 522
Re: The big differences between spot and partial are...

Well, the automated multi spot averaging just averages all the spot readings you took. I need to calculate the exposure myself, because what I'm after is more sophisticated than a simple average.

It's not that simple to explain, but I'll try:) With digital, like slide film, I feel that you have about a 5 stop usable range, two stops on either side of your nominal grey card exposure point. What I do is find an area of the scene that I want to render as nominal (18% gray). I then check to see if highlights and shadows are within two stops of the nominal reading. If they are, it's all good and I shoot. But if they're not, then a compromise must be made. I can sacrifice either shadow or highlight detail. Making the exposure decision myself allows me to make this choice.

It's about total control of how the scene is rendered on the film or sensor, and arbitrarily placing brightness levels to achieve a desired effect.

For example, if I'm photographing a pile of coal, I'm going to want to adjust the exposure to show detail in the various shades of "black". A "nominally correct" exposure would make all the coal black and not show much detail. But if you shift your exposure such that the lighter shades of black coal will render the same as a gray card, you will show detail in the coal.

Lisa

bdnc wrote:
Humm, I thought that WAS the point of multispot averaging, but what
do I know?

I guess you are saying you prefer to calculate the compromise
exposure yourself.

Lisa Horton wrote:
I'm well aware of the difference between a spot and partial meter:)
Spot metering is my primary method. I don't like the multi-spot
averaging function though, seems like it defeats the purpose of
multi-spot metering, which is to decide how you want to fit the
dynamic range of the scene into the limited dynamic range of your
film or sensor.

Lsia

bdnc wrote:
a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least
the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure
which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

bdnc Senior Member • Posts: 1,738
I see what you mean now...

thanks for the explaination, that makes a lot of sense. I think I'll test that approach out - I should be able to do multiple separate spot readings with a 1D to do just that...

Thanks

Lisa Horton wrote:
Well, the automated multi spot averaging just averages all the spot
readings you took. I need to calculate the exposure myself,
because what I'm after is more sophisticated than a simple average.

It's not that simple to explain, but I'll try:) With digital, like
slide film, I feel that you have about a 5 stop usable range, two
stops on either side of your nominal grey card exposure point.
What I do is find an area of the scene that I want to render as
nominal (18% gray). I then check to see if highlights and shadows
are within two stops of the nominal reading. If they are, it's all
good and I shoot. But if they're not, then a compromise must be
made. I can sacrifice either shadow or highlight detail. Making
the exposure decision myself allows me to make this choice.

It's about total control of how the scene is rendered on the film
or sensor, and arbitrarily placing brightness levels to achieve a
desired effect.

For example, if I'm photographing a pile of coal, I'm going to want
to adjust the exposure to show detail in the various shades of
"black". A "nominally correct" exposure would make all the coal
black and not show much detail. But if you shift your exposure
such that the lighter shades of black coal will render the same as
a gray card, you will show detail in the coal.

Lisa

bdnc wrote:
Humm, I thought that WAS the point of multispot averaging, but what
do I know?

I guess you are saying you prefer to calculate the compromise
exposure yourself.

Lisa Horton wrote:
I'm well aware of the difference between a spot and partial meter:)
Spot metering is my primary method. I don't like the multi-spot
averaging function though, seems like it defeats the purpose of
multi-spot metering, which is to decide how you want to fit the
dynamic range of the scene into the limited dynamic range of your
film or sensor.

Lsia

bdnc wrote:
a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least
the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure
which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

Lisa Horton Contributing Member • Posts: 522
Re: I see what you mean now...

Indeed you can, and if it works like the EOS 3, all of your readings will remain visible on the exposure scale:)

Lisa

bdnc wrote:
thanks for the explaination, that makes a lot of sense. I think
I'll test that approach out - I should be able to do multiple
separate spot readings with a 1D to do just that...

Thanks

Lisa Horton wrote:
Well, the automated multi spot averaging just averages all the spot
readings you took. I need to calculate the exposure myself,
because what I'm after is more sophisticated than a simple average.

It's not that simple to explain, but I'll try:) With digital, like
slide film, I feel that you have about a 5 stop usable range, two
stops on either side of your nominal grey card exposure point.
What I do is find an area of the scene that I want to render as
nominal (18% gray). I then check to see if highlights and shadows
are within two stops of the nominal reading. If they are, it's all
good and I shoot. But if they're not, then a compromise must be
made. I can sacrifice either shadow or highlight detail. Making
the exposure decision myself allows me to make this choice.

It's about total control of how the scene is rendered on the film
or sensor, and arbitrarily placing brightness levels to achieve a
desired effect.

For example, if I'm photographing a pile of coal, I'm going to want
to adjust the exposure to show detail in the various shades of
"black". A "nominally correct" exposure would make all the coal
black and not show much detail. But if you shift your exposure
such that the lighter shades of black coal will render the same as
a gray card, you will show detail in the coal.

Lisa

bdnc wrote:
Humm, I thought that WAS the point of multispot averaging, but what
do I know?

I guess you are saying you prefer to calculate the compromise
exposure yourself.

Lisa Horton wrote:
I'm well aware of the difference between a spot and partial meter:)
Spot metering is my primary method. I don't like the multi-spot
averaging function though, seems like it defeats the purpose of
multi-spot metering, which is to decide how you want to fit the
dynamic range of the scene into the limited dynamic range of your
film or sensor.

Lsia

bdnc wrote:
a more precise area is metered with spot and with spot (at least
the 1D) you can take multiple readings to get an overall exposure
which is balanced for all the metered areas.

Lisa Horton wrote:

JimS wrote:

The 10D seems to be the camera I've been waiting for, the only
thing missing is the lack of spotmeter. I must admit I dont use it
a lot, but when I do, I like the fact that I can get a reading on a
specific point.

I wonder why Canon ommited this feature which is standard in just
about every other SLR and DSLR.

Is anybody else concerned about the lack of a spotmeter?

I'm slightly disapointed, but not surprised. The Elan 7 doesn't
have it either. While a partial meter doesn't quite replace a
spot, it can often (but not always) serve the same function.

Lisa

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