How Are We?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
gary0319
gary0319 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,910
Re: How Are We?
3

CharlesB58 wrote:

Some folks take themselves too seriously.

Some people think they know a lot more than they really do, being unwilling to admit it even when called on it.

I do believe some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to criticize m4/3 and/or specific camera brands.

Some folks recognize that people are going to find things to complain about, regardless.

What I see is that we, as users of what is essentially a "niche system" (by intent of the designers if not in the minds of the marketing people) face the common conundrum of discovering that getting what some of ask for ends up being something other than what we realize we actually like.

Agree 100%.

My wife ran a small successful business for many years and one day I asked her what her secret was, because all of her customers were extremely happy customers. She simply said “ I give all my customers the end product they would have asked for, if only they were smart enough to have realized it”.

She did quite well for many years.

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pannumon Senior Member • Posts: 2,351
Re: How Are We?
2

CharlesB58 wrote:

Some folks take themselves too seriously.

Some people think they know a lot more than they really do, being unwilling to admit it even when called on it.

I do believe some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to criticize m4/3 and/or specific camera brands.

Some folks recognize that people are going to find things to complain about, regardless.

It also works the other way around! Some people seem to be happy whatever their favorite manufacturer does, and do not want to hear anything critical about them or their products.

It's exactly 10 years since I (pre)ordered my GH1. I still like Micro Four Thirds very much, but nowadays I am more interested in facts rather than Micro Four Thirds gospel. In general, I don't have problems with those "criticizing" Micro Four Thirds, because they are usually just straightening out misconceptions. I do have problems with people spreading misconceptions or even lies.

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JaKing
JaKing Senior Member • Posts: 5,455
Re: How Are We?
2

pannumon wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Some folks take themselves too seriously.

Some people think they know a lot more than they really do, being unwilling to admit it even when called on it.

I do believe some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to criticize m4/3 and/or specific camera brands.

Some folks recognize that people are going to find things to complain about, regardless.

It also works the other way around! Some people seem to be happy whatever their favorite manufacturer does, and do not want to hear anything critical about them or their products.

It's exactly 10 years since I (pre)ordered my GH1. I still like Micro Four Thirds very much, but nowadays I am more interested in facts rather than Micro Four Thirds gospel. In general, I don't have problems with those "criticizing" Micro Four Thirds, because they are usually just straightening out misconceptions. I do have problems with people spreading misconceptions or even lies.

I take photographs with mine that are more than perfectly acceptable to me. When I routinely capture detail that's invisible to the naked eye, I reckon that exceeds the 'good enough' benchmark.

According to some regular 'contributors' here, this is not acceptable, or could be equalled (or surpassed!) by a smartphone - one that costs as much as my E-M1 MkII, just BTW  ...

That sort of BS gets kind of old ...

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Pixnat2
Pixnat2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Freedom of expression
3

pannumon wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Some folks take themselves too seriously.

Some people think they know a lot more than they really do, being unwilling to admit it even when called on it.

I do believe some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to criticize m4/3 and/or specific camera brands.

Some folks recognize that people are going to find things to complain about, regardless.

It also works the other way around! Some people seem to be happy whatever their favorite manufacturer does, and do not want to hear anything critical about them or their products.

It's exactly 10 years since I (pre)ordered my GH1. I still like Micro Four Thirds very much, but nowadays I am more interested in facts rather than Micro Four Thirds gospel. In general, I don't have problems with those "criticizing" Micro Four Thirds, because they are usually just straightening out misconceptions. I do have problems with people spreading misconceptions or even lies.

Agree.

I would add that some folks interpret every critic as "m43 bashing". But criticizing and bashing are two very different notions and have two different goals.

It would be nice if some learn to discern between those two notions.

Recently, a lot of m43 users are dissapointed by the direction of the system (camera and lenses get bigger and more expensive). They see the other way round in FF (cameras get smaller and more affordable). They see no proper midrange on the horizon from Olympus. They are puzzled by Panasonic move with the L mount.

All those are valid concerns about m43 future. A forum like this is the right place to express and discuss their concerns, as long as it's "critics" and not "bashing".

It would be nice if people could discuss without being systematically attacked by the m43 "politically correct" patrol.

Luckily, we have open minded moderators that prevent this forum to be boringly "one track thinking" and preserve freedom of expression.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,715
Re: How Are We?
4

CharlesB58 wrote:

2009 Micro Four Thirds debuts: "These cameras are so small, they're like toys. Plus, they will never catch on without a pro spec'd flagship model, Olympus needs to figure out the market."

2011 EPM1: "It's too small" and it fails. "When will Olympus come out with a camera for pros and serious amateurs"

2012 OMD EM5: "It's getting there, but still not a camera "real pros" would use. And why does it have to look like a slr?"

2013 OMD EM1: "It's not really a professional camera. Olympus needs to come out with something to compete with Canon and Nikon."

2019 OMD EM1x: "It's too big. Olympus has lost its focus. They forgot what m4/3 is all about."

Yeah, we're that messed up as a group of camera owners. LOL

You conveniently missed 6 years, and missed many quotes of praise for the system too. Particularly the EM5 MK1 and M5 MK II.  Not sure why ask the question in the title and provide these quotes.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,715
Re: All the forums on here are the same...
1

absquatulate wrote:

An amazing choice of products, but filled with gear heads whining incessantly about their chosen brand. It's really quite simple, if you're not happy then buy something else. I'm really pretty amazed at how good all these cameras are these days, but then l still happily use film so maybe l have a more grounded perspective.

I remember flaky auto-focus, shutter lag, rubbish ergonomics, tiny viewfinders etc etc, now l pick up my G9 and am regularly amazed by what it can do. I'm sure l could apply that to any m4/3's camera from the last 5 years. There's just no serious perspective from many people on here, l consider myself really lucky to own such capable equipment, l really don't understand what's not to like?

Because while you point out happens, other things happen. Like some people here constantly comparing vs other system instead of posting photos of what they can do with their preferred tool. And then another set of people proceeds to complain that it's people from other systems trolling.

Some people also express simply a different set of needs that leads them to a different tool, and then they get burned at the stake.

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absquatulate Forum Pro • Posts: 10,290
Re: All the forums on here are the same...

Raist3d wrote:

absquatulate wrote:

An amazing choice of products, but filled with gear heads whining incessantly about their chosen brand. It's really quite simple, if you're not happy then buy something else. I'm really pretty amazed at how good all these cameras are these days, but then l still happily use film so maybe l have a more grounded perspective.

I remember flaky auto-focus, shutter lag, rubbish ergonomics, tiny viewfinders etc etc, now l pick up my G9 and am regularly amazed by what it can do. I'm sure l could apply that to any m4/3's camera from the last 5 years. There's just no serious perspective from many people on here, l consider myself really lucky to own such capable equipment, l really don't understand what's not to like?

Because while you point out happens, other things happen. Like some people here constantly comparing vs other system instead of posting photos of what they can do with their preferred tool. And then another set of people proceeds to complain that it's people from other systems trolling.

Some people also express simply a different set of needs that leads them to a different tool, and then they get burned at the stake.

I know, and it happens on the all forums, all have their zealots, some are worse than others, this forum has a bit of bunker mentality because it does get trolled regularly, the best solution is just to ignore the idiots on either side.

Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,715
Re: All the forums on here are the same...

absquatulate wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

absquatulate wrote:

An amazing choice of products, but filled with gear heads whining incessantly about their chosen brand. It's really quite simple, if you're not happy then buy something else. I'm really pretty amazed at how good all these cameras are these days, but then l still happily use film so maybe l have a more grounded perspective.

I remember flaky auto-focus, shutter lag, rubbish ergonomics, tiny viewfinders etc etc, now l pick up my G9 and am regularly amazed by what it can do. I'm sure l could apply that to any m4/3's camera from the last 5 years. There's just no serious perspective from many people on here, l consider myself really lucky to own such capable equipment, l really don't understand what's not to like?

Because while you point out happens, other things happen. Like some people here constantly comparing vs other system instead of posting photos of what they can do with their preferred tool. And then another set of people proceeds to complain that it's people from other systems trolling.

Some people also express simply a different set of needs that leads them to a different tool, and then they get burned at the stake.

I know, and it happens on the all forums, all have their zealots, some are worse than others, this forum has a bit of bunker mentality because it does get trolled regularly, the best solution is just to ignore the idiots on either side.

In general, I agree it happens in all forums yes.

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Pixnat2
Pixnat2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
The other way round?
5

CharlesB58 wrote:

Some folks take themselves too seriously.

Some people think they know a lot more than they really do, being unwilling to admit it even when called on it.

I do believe some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to criticize m4/3 and/or specific camera brands.

It's interesting because one can see things the other way round : some people here have a "mission", at least personal, if not paid, to defend m43 and/or specific camera brands against every single critics.

Outside those two vocal minorities, the majority are adult people who are able to discuss even if they disagree. Hopefully.

Some folks recognize that people are going to find things to complain about, regardless.

What I see is that we, as users of what is essentially a "niche system" (by intent of the designers if not in the minds of the marketing people) face the common conundrum of discovering that getting what some of ask for ends up being something other than what we realize we actually like.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,690
Re: How Are We?

dgnelson wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

I'm not sure I recognise the humour, let alone 'good' humour. I know the fashion is for humour that isn't funny, but in my book that isn't humour.

He sure got a lot of likes for something that's not funny.

Dan

Lots of threads that aren't funny get lots of likes. Your point is?

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263, look deader.

TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,249
Re: How Are We?
4

bobn2 wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Wow. Kinda wrapped a little tight, eh? Anyone who has been following the tone of posts would recognize these as generic statements that have been repeatedly made rather than direct quotes.

So, they're made up and don't represent anything anyone has actually said.

LOL, they are written because they DO represent things many have said. I assume you understand the meaning of the word represent -- since you wrote it?

That reveals more about you than the people, whoever they are, that you're trying to lampoon.

You just said a lot about yourself with that unnecessary personal attack and aggression. If you are humourless, which indeed would say far to much about you, then say so. Otherwise admit you severely misread the OP instead of trying to attack him for your comprehension error.

I gather that you reserve this behaviour for this forum, or do you want to own it everywhere? Show us. Otherwise you would look like an m43-bashing troll, and that can't be right. So show us.

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,249
Re: How Are We?

CharlesB58 wrote:

....Oddly enough, marketing research in a number of product categories indicates that if the price of a certain item is too low, people will not buy it because they think it will be cheaply made. Cameras are like that. I theorize that the EM1x could retail for as much as $1000 less, but that would put the price more into the "prosumer" range than the expected flagship range (consider the prices of the Canon 1D, Nikon D5 and Sony A9). That and Olympus stated plainly they don't expect to sell a lot of EM1x bodies, that it's more a demonstration of capability than an attempt to bolster profits.

I theorize otherwise. Camera making is a competitive market (cue conspiracy theorists HERE), so prices are pushed down. If Nikon want to be #1 and they could be underselling Canon by 25-50% on all equivalent models, and make money, then they would.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,690
Re: How Are We?
3

TN Args wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

Wow. Kinda wrapped a little tight, eh? Anyone who has been following the tone of posts would recognize these as generic statements that have been repeatedly made rather than direct quotes.

So, they're made up and don't represent anything anyone has actually said.

LOL, they are written because they DO represent things many have said. I assume you understand the meaning of the word represent -- since you wrote it?

Could we have a few examples of people saying these things? The first one, at least, is impossible, since Olympus wasn't making mFT cameras when mFT was launched. The others are things some people might have said. But then people say all types of stuff. Unless the same people were saying all these things, there really is no point, is there?

That reveals more about you than the people, whoever they are, that you're trying to lampoon.

You just said a lot about yourself with that unnecessary personal attack and aggression.

Where was the 'personal attack'? Where was the aggression?

If you are humourless, which indeed would say far to much about you, then say so. Otherwise admit you severely misread the OP instead of trying to attack him for your comprehension error.

I'm certainly not humourless. As I said in a previous post, I just prefer humoiur that's actually funny.

I gather that you reserve this behaviour for this forum, or do you want to own it everywhere? Show us. Otherwise you would look like an m43-bashing troll, and that can't be right. So show us.

Which behaviour are you talking about? Saying that I don't find humourless things funny? Pointing out gross misrepresentations and misleading information? Resisting mindless fan boys that wish to attack everyone that doesn't submit to the requirement for continuous worship of their favourite brand? I do this all over the place.

Let's get it straight. The OP was an attempt to denigrate people who have ever had the temerity to criticise what Olympus might have done ever. I have nothing against Olympus as a brand or company. I have a lot against the boneheaded fan boys that seem to be more attached to that brand than many others and spend their time making life a misery for people who won't subscribe to their faith.

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263, look deader.

Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,715
This (n/t)
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dgnelson Senior Member • Posts: 1,133
Re: How Are We?
1

bobn2 wrote:

dgnelson wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

I'm not sure I recognise the humour, let alone 'good' humour. I know the fashion is for humour that isn't funny, but in my book that isn't humour.

He sure got a lot of likes for something that's not funny.

Dan

Lots of threads that aren't funny get lots of likes. Your point is?

My point is nothing but light hearted.

Dan

NextShowForSure Contributing Member • Posts: 628
Re: How Are We?

dgnelson wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

dgnelson wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

I'm not sure I recognise the humour, let alone 'good' humour. I know the fashion is for humour that isn't funny, but in my book that isn't humour.

He sure got a lot of likes for something that's not funny.

Dan

Lots of threads that aren't funny get lots of likes. Your point is?

My point is nothing but light hearted.

Dan

But have you the necessary provenance and attribution to prove this statement?

Even humour is pixel peeped in this environment.

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