32 mp really?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
Jonas Palm Contributing Member • Posts: 955
Re: 32 mp really?

frst16 wrote:

If 4K is roughly 8mp, a 6.7mp still displays superbly on my 42” tv (3ft on the long edge). 12mp D700/300 had enough detail to see individual eye-lashes of a portrait shot, and there is even more detail within the 20mp EM1 mkiI or G9 images.

What is the advantage of going to 32mp?

For your use case, watching the full area of the captured image on a legacy TV, there is no advantage to higher resolution sensors, now or ever.

But that is not how all images are used, all the time, by all photographers.

Personally, I’d prefer a 8000x6000 (or even better 12kx9k) sensor. Sonys 100MP FF sensor will be very interesting to see in action for instance. And if you go to optyzcne.pl and check out their multisample shots from the S1r, you’ll get an appreciation for just how much information is lost by low resolution sensor sampling, (and just how far we have to go to get rid of sensor sampling effects on the final image.)

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Jonas Palm Contributing Member • Posts: 955
Link to samples.

OM-D E-M1x pic link .

S1r multisample pic link .

And the MTF curves indicate that there is still more to get out of the lens.

Basically, I'd like to see the high-res result straight from the sensor, without having to take multiple shots. But not everyone crops for tele or macro, or zooms or .....

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Mephistopheles* Regular Member • Posts: 307
Re: I wouldn't trust the 32MP sensor thing...
1

Raist3d wrote:

the Jump from 20mp to 32MP at a m43rds size is a bit much.

Agree--Olympus said only a few years ago that they thought 24mp was probably the max for m4/3.

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Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 6,948
Re: Link to samples.

Jonas Palm wrote:

OM-D E-M1x pic link .

S1r multisample pic link .

Oh man, this combination of high res sensor and pixel shift is just crazy. But it shows why those modern lenses are so big and expensive.

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DLBlack Forum Pro • Posts: 13,860
Re: I wouldn't trust the 32MP sensor thing...

Mephistopheles* wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

the Jump from 20mp to 32MP at a m43rds size is a bit much.

Agree--Olympus said only a few years ago that they thought 24mp was probably the max for m4/3.

Years before they stated 12 MP was the max.

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Kristoff_EM5 Regular Member • Posts: 164
Re: 32 mp really?

I don't have any desire for more pixels, but I would love more dynamic range.

And I only have 16 mp

If lack of pixels are a problem, try pointing your camera at the right thing. (joke)

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LoneTree1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: 32 mp really?

I would love this.  I've used the E-M5II up to 5000 ISO and if you fill the frame with the subject, the noise is not horribly objectionable to me.  If the 32mp is noisier, I can live with it, but the increased resolution would allow for reductions in noise by downsizing and would provide more detail at low ISOs that m4/3rds has been lacking.  Plus, if they have a super resolution mode with 128M, that's icing.

Photo Pete Veteran Member • Posts: 4,805
Here we go again!
1

Rumours of major sensor improvement with no basis in fact at all.

I seem to remember this in the lead up to the EM1x. By the time it was released nothing would have lived up to the hype but everyone immediately jumped on it as being a total failure for not doing so.

32mp m43? Same pixel density as a 128mp FF. Really?

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joeyrinato New Member • Posts: 7
Re: 32 mp really?

LoneTree1 wrote:

I would love this. I've used the E-M5II up to 5000 ISO and if you fill the frame with the subject, the noise is not horribly objectionable to me. If the 32mp is noisier, I can live with it, but the increased resolution would allow for reductions in noise by downsizing and would provide more detail at low ISOs that m4/3rds has been lacking. Plus, if they have a super resolution mode with 128M, that's icing.

For those keeping score at home, this is the first reply out 67 where someone actually said they want or need 32mp to improve their work based on some limitation of the existing 16-20mp sensors that are available.

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assaft
assaft Senior Member • Posts: 1,429
Re: 32 mp really?
1

Astrotripper wrote:

assaft wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

If you are looking at E-M1 cameras because you need something for shooting action, then there is no point waiting for E-M5 III. It will not be an action shooter.

You don’t buy D850 instead of D5 or A7R III instead of A9. Same here.

Invalid comparison, in my opinion.

The markets for pro landscape shooters (D850, A7R III, Z7) and pro action shooters (D5, A9) are far more segmented than the market for mid-range enthusiastic 1K$ users.

I would not even dare making an assumption that the upcoming E-M5 would be all that close to $1k

We're probably looking at around $1500.

This is because the high-end markets are for more dedicated use-cases while the mid-range market is for a variety of use-cases and aims to appeal to a more diverge user-base.

Look at what Sony did with the A6400 - a mid-range 900$ body that has nice resolution and good dynamic range, but above all - the state-of-the-art AF for shooting action. And this is not an exception, the Fuji X-T30 is close behind, and adds advanced video features. If Olympus targets the E-M5 III for the same crowd, it needs to up its game - and action shooting, at least for family shots like kids running is a must. The landscape for mid-range cameras has changed and unfortunately Olympus is far behind and very late.

Ok, I get your point. That works for E-M1 II, I guess. With Olympus, there's currently not much choice and E-M1 II is kind of the only current high end option regardless of the type of photography you're doing.

Right, but that's exactly the problem - that the only model with respectable action shooting is a high-end model priced at 1500$. In light of the competition, this should change.

I think the easiest thing for Olympus will be to re-brand the Em1 ii as a Em-5 iii with an updated firmware that improves AF and video, and to price it at 1200$. No need for a new hardware design, or new manufacturing lines, or new product release, etc. Only a descent software update and a 20% price reduction that will arrive anyway at some point next year. At 1200$ it can compete well against 900$ bodies from Sony and Fuji that have better sensors, better AF and better video, because it will offer much better build quality, a killer stabilization, and unique features like super-resolution and less rolling shutter (fast e-shutter).

But I would still contest OP's statement on holding off on buying E-M1X in favor of waiting for a camera with this rumored new sensor. People looking at buying E-M1X are not exactly looking for an all-rounder casual camera for doing whatever. You really have to have a reason to buy a $3k action oriented flagship model.

And at 32mp, it will simply not be as capable as E-M1X for the things that E-M1X was designed for. I would expect Olympus to make it competent, sure. They have no choice, they have to if they want to make it competitive. But 60% more data to process will take a toll on various aspects of performance. There's just no way around this. Forget about 60fps ProCapture. Possibly even forget about shooting action with electronic shutter. You might get 3-4 second burst at 6-8fps with high hit rate, but that's not quite the same level as E-M1X.

Anyway, this is waaaay too far into speculation and hypotheticals.

I believe it would make perfect sense for Olympus to put a high res sensor in one of their cameras and charge an appropriate premium. They can always upgrade E-M10 line to compete with X-T30 and the like.

Anyway, we'll see soon enough. I'm really in the market for the next E-M5 and as long as form factor is what I expect, I will be buying it regardless of the sensor it will use.

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whumber
whumber Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
Re: Here we go again!
5

Photo Pete wrote:

32mp m43? Same pixel density as a 128mp FF. Really?

Not that crazy, the sensors in the 1" cameras are equivalent to a 148MP FF sensor and perform pretty much identically to the best m43 sensors on a per area basis.

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otto k Senior Member • Posts: 2,097
Re: Here we go again!
1

And 64MP 1/2" is almost 2GP in FF. And people have been working on 5+GP sensors for years (with completely different approaches to this).

Regarding processing speed - venerable Samsung NX1 was able to shoot 15fps with mechanical shutter and AF-C on 28MP almost five years ago so I don't see serious issues today for anyone wanting to do the same or similar.

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rsf3127 Regular Member • Posts: 321
Pixel count is not the thing here

32 MPx is about average when you factor pixel density. It wouldn't be difficult for Sony to deliver such sensor. Probably they already have it designed and ready for production.

But this is not the main feature of a possible new sensor that I am interested.

BSI and stacked design would be much more relevant IMO. These would make M43 catch up with other formats in IQ.

Pixel count is not a gimmick. But it would be a drag if nothing else changes.

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VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,336
You weird......
1

Raist3d wrote:

the Jump from 20mp to 32MP at a m43rds size is a bit much.

Excellent informative contribution Raist3d........just imagine a backlit up to date high performance 32MP sensor in an Olympus campus camera.....

But you probably right Olympus owners should be satisfied with old sensor tech in 16MP format........did Olympus ask you if they may risk 20MP sensors?

You weird.......

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mstrbill New Member • Posts: 7
Re: 32 mp really?

I am kind of expecting the E-M5.3 to be announced on August 10th. Olympus is having an event in Austin Texas that several Visionaries are attending.

Do you have a link to the event? All I see is a Clean and Check at Precision Camera and Video that day.

https://olympuscleanandcheck.setmore.com

Thanks

Photo Pete Veteran Member • Posts: 4,805
Re: Here we go again!
2

whumber wrote:

Photo Pete wrote:

32mp m43? Same pixel density as a 128mp FF. Really?

Not that crazy, the sensors in the 1" cameras are equivalent to a 148MP FF sensor and perform pretty much identically to the best m43 sensors on a per area basis.

I didn't say it wasn't possible. I was just cautioning about building up a wish list of features and performance in advance of the camera release. With no solid information to back it up that seems to be setting up for disappointment.

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MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 38,253
Lead from the back foot

Jeff wrote:

Jeepit wrote:

This from Mirrorless Rumors:

Sshort roundup of the rumored cameras for the year 2019:

Leica SL2: coming the second half of the year with same Panasonic S1R sensor
Hasselblad X1D-100: To be on the market by the second half of the year and featuring the new Sony 100MP sensor
Fuji GFX100: Will be announced on May 23 (we know all specs about that camera)
Canon High End EOS-R camera: Probably features a new 64 Megapixel sensor and will be announced in autumn
Canon EOS-M500: Entry level APS-C camera coming this autumn
Sony A9II: To be announced in September and feature some revolutionary advancements (particularly on the sensor level)
Sony A7sIII: To be announced with or slightly after the Sony A9II
Olympus E-M5III: To be announced in late summer/early autumn and maybe featuring a new 32MP Sony sensor

Does anyone know if Sony actually has a mFt 32 mp sensor?

Because if they do and if Olympus is able to procure it and implement it into a camera...maybe hold off on purchasing the EM1x for the OMD EM1 mark III. The mark II is coming up on its end of life cycle. i know I know pure speculation...

Rick

What seems to be lost in this rumor is the supposedly 100% reliable rumor that Olympus is working on a global shutter. That's a big deal.

For one thing, it means an end to the rolling shutter effect. So that's good news for video and action shooters.

But think what it means for HHHR mode, pro capture, the myriad of other things Oly has developed over time. My guess is all of these things get a substantial boost in functionality.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft1-sony-allegedly-has-made-a-new-32mp-mft-sensor/

Not going to lead from the back foot with a incredibly expensive, rip your arms off, GM5 size 32mp global shutter stand out? Now that would make the M4/3 system stand out as being playing to its compact system strengths.

What we will get is flagship huge body stuff that tries to directly compete head on with FF ML bodies and trickle down to increasingly compromised smaller ones until they simply fade away.

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Tom Caldwell

DLBlack Forum Pro • Posts: 13,860
Re: 32 mp really?

mstrbill wrote:

I am kind of expecting the E-M5.3 to be announced on August 10th. Olympus is having an event in Austin Texas that several Visionaries are attending.

Do you have a link to the event? All I see is a Clean and Check at Precision Camera and Video that day.

https://olympuscleanandcheck.setmore.com

Thanks

Visionary Joe Edelman's website as him in Austin TX for a three day Olympus event.

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,351
Re: 32 mp really?
2

BobT3218 wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

Jeepit wrote:
Olympus E-M5III: To be announced in late summer/early autumn and maybe featuring a new 32MP Sony sensor

Releasing a 32MP E-M5III would undercut their 20MP E-M1X. I don't see why they would want to do that.

Yes, I'm actually holding off the E-MX1 for a better sensor. However, by "better sensor" I don't necessarily mean more pixels.

You are holding out for nothing. All reviews, even DPR, describe the sensor as somewhere between excellent and extremely good. So a better sensor is going to be better in such small marginal ways that it is going to make no detectable difference to your photography.

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bofo777 Senior Member • Posts: 1,637
Re: 32 mp really?

If this was possible in such a short time since the X was out they would of surely put it in their Flagg ship originally...

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