Nikon Z advisory

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
ClosePhoto Regular Member • Posts: 115
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

The fact is that in hindsight, the Z6 and Z7, Nikon's first foray into this new system, will be the least refined and lowest performing Z mount cameras.

They will learn many lessons from this initial run, and all future models will be superior, likely by a significant margin.

F is mature, improvements at this point and for quite a while have been incremental, not dramatic.

Z, like all 1st gen tech products, will see the largest improvements in the first few iterations until it too matures a bit, and Nikon becomes more experienced with this line of products.

With that in mind, and so few native lenses at launch, patience seems to be the right strategy for those already heavily invested in F.

Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,454
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Yes they are but Nikon tweaked the algorithms a little more and now they look even better.

Tweaked algorithms? Have you any idea of what is the raw data? Or, what does post-processing do in order colors appear “to you” as looking better?

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

ClosePhoto wrote:

The fact is that in hindsight, the Z6 and Z7, Nikon's first foray into this new system, will be the least refined and lowest performing Z mount cameras.

They will learn many lessons from this initial run, and all future models will be superior, likely by a significant margin.

F is mature, improvements at this point and for quite a while have been incremental, not dramatic.

Z, like all 1st gen tech products, will see the largest improvements in the first few iterations until it too matures a bit, and Nikon becomes more experienced with this line of products.

With that in mind, and so few native lenses at launch, patience seems to be the right strategy for those already heavily invested in F.

First gen FF but still very refined.  Actually Z is not Nikon's first attempt at ML .. they have been making since 2012.  Z mount is very thought out and much better than F. S lenses are all very high quality and better than F lenses

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory

Raul wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Yes they are but Nikon tweaked the algorithms a little more and now they look even better.

Tweaked algorithms? Have you any idea of what is the raw data? Or, what does post-processing do in order colors appear “to you” as looking better?

They look better this is reported by many people not just me.  I am a computer scientist and can tell they must have tweaked their algorithms.

Once upon a time, a girl with moonlight in her eyes

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Mackiesback
Mackiesback Senior Member • Posts: 6,505
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit. The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

Anytime someone used the term “magical” when describing anything to do with a camera, I immediately dismiss their opinions as lacking any objectivity.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
4

Mackiesback wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit. The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

Anytime someone used the term “magical” when describing anything to do with a camera, I immediately dismiss their opinions as lacking any objectivity.

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and  look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side.  I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

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briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,105
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

DigitalFFUser wrote:

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side. I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

To me, you seem to be calling a spade a truly amazing digging instrument.  In other words, you're exaggerating again

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Mackiesback wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit. The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

Anytime someone used the term “magical” when describing anything to do with a camera, I immediately dismiss their opinions as lacking any objectivity.

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side. I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
2

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side. I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

To me, you seem to be calling a spade a truly amazing digging instrument. In other words, you're exaggerating again

I have D610 and D850 and tons of F mount lenses. I have Z6 with just the kit lens and FTZ adapter. Z has better mount better zoom (24-70 F2.8S) , newer color rendering algorithms plus all the goodies of ML system. Why should I not praise the obvious advantages? I fell in love with the system and just telling the results after using side by side for couple of months. New FW improved focus and brought new features to Z6.Z7 whereas D850 and D610 features are etched in stone.

For my use Z6 ticks more check-boxes than D610 and D850.

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lickity split
lickity split Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Mackiesback wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit. The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

Anytime someone used the term “magical” when describing anything to do with a camera, I immediately dismiss their opinions as lacking any objectivity.

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side. I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

Why should I? I have D610 and D850 and tons of F mount lenses. I have Z6 with just the kit lens and FTZ adapter. Z has better mount better zoom (24-70 F2.8S) , newer color rendering algorithms plus all the goodies of ML system. Why should I not praise the obvious advantages? I fell in love with the system and just telling the results after using side by side for couple of months. New FW improved focus and brought new features to Z6.Z7 whereas D850 and D610 features are etched in stone.

For my use Z6 ticks more check-boxes than D610 and D850.

What good is a camera system if it’s only capable of shooting static subjects , it’s great that your happy with it but I guess your wants / standards are lower then other shooters which is fine  but if your tryin to convince others good Luck with that ...

Pretty funny that Nikon puts out a service advisory and the Z body defense team snaps to attention 😂😂

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

lickity split wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Mackiesback wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit. The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

Anytime someone used the term “magical” when describing anything to do with a camera, I immediately dismiss their opinions as lacking any objectivity.

In the same thread I also presented scientific analysis about accurate AF .. colors is a qualitative thing and look visibility better on Z but you would only know if you compare side by side. I love my D850 but I am calling a spade a spade.

Why should I? I have D610 and D850 and tons of F mount lenses. I have Z6 with just the kit lens and FTZ adapter. Z has better mount better zoom (24-70 F2.8S) , newer color rendering algorithms plus all the goodies of ML system. Why should I not praise the obvious advantages? I fell in love with the system and just telling the results after using side by side for couple of months. New FW improved focus and brought new features to Z6.Z7 whereas D850 and D610 features are etched in stone.

For my use Z6 ticks more check-boxes than D610 and D850.

What good is a camera system if it’s only capable of shooting static subjects , it’s great that your happy with it but I guess your wants / standards are lower then other shooters which is fine but if your tryin to convince others good Luck with that ...

Pretty funny that Nikon puts out a service advisory and the Z body defense team snaps to attention 😂😂

What is a good camera system (D850) that cannot nail focus on static eyes ?
With sticky EYE AF Z6/Z7 track eyes in real time. So yes real time tracking on Z is better too.

Service advisory is not a recall like tons of D750 ones .. Nasim of photographylife Z7 has an affected Z but he never noticed any issues .. Nikon is just over cautious after D600 fiasco.

Per Nasim

First of all, I was a bit surprised to find out that my Nikon Z7 is affected. Having used the camera in the field for over 8 months, I never noticed that mine had any issues related to in-body image stabilization (IBIS). In fact, my sample was one of the units used in the field to report on how amazing the IBIS system on the Z7 is (you can read about it in our Nikon Z7 review). I wonder if Nikon actually knows which particular units are truly affected, because mine does not seem to suffer from any issues. The same goes for Spencer, who also has an affected Z7, but his camera has not had any issues with IBIS either. Perhaps the company came across a sample or two that had some problems and decided to recall the whole batch, who knows. Although mine is doing just fine, I will still go ahead and send it in, as I am curious about what type of service it will go through.

In summary, it appears that this is a very minor service advisory that affects a small range of cameras.

https://photographylife.com/news/nikon-z6-and-z7-ibis-service-advisory

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
1

T O Shooter wrote:

rbmphoto wrote:

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

TO, I bought one of the first D3’s available in the US. I’m quite certain I’ve been on this forum as long as you have as I’ve been here since its inception. As an constant fx owner, I still (in)frequent this forum. I noticed yet another negative Z thread here, as you pointed out, in the FX forum. I don’t see negative fx threads in the Z forum, probably because most Z owner own both - from each camp: dslr and mirrorless.

Every time I see one of those negative/critical thread, you seem to be there running off without any hands on experience, something I never used to see from you in the past.

You are right. I typically don't comment on what I don't shoot. However, every thread on the Zees over here turns into a bashing of DSLRs and in particular the D850. DigitalFFUser is an example of who shows up every time there's any Z related on the Fx forum.

The D850 in fact is very close to the Holy Grail of DSLRs, based on 2019. The Z7 is not close in the ML sector.

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: For someone who has never owned one...

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

rbmphoto wrote:

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

TO, I bought one of the first D3’s available in the US. I’m quite certain I’ve been on this forum as long as you have as I’ve been here since its inception. As an constant fx owner, I still (in)frequent this forum. I noticed yet another negative Z thread here, as you pointed out, in the FX forum. I don’t see negative fx threads in the Z forum, probably because most Z owner own both - from each camp: dslr and mirrorless.

Every time I see one of those negative/critical thread, you seem to be there running off without any hands on experience, something I never used to see from you in the past.

You are right. I typically don't comment on what I don't shoot. However, every thread on the Zees over here turns into a bashing of DSLRs and in particular the D850. DigitalFFUser is an example of who shows up every time there's any Z related on the Fx forum.

The D850 in fact is very close to the Holy Grail of DSLRs, based on 2019. The Z7 is not close in the ML sector.

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
1

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

You are believing based on your own preconceived notions that cannot be furthest away from reality.

This whole thread is created and commented by some jealous folks . Why they care about Z system if that is not important? Nobody cares about Nikon Dxxx camera in Z forum.

For me Z is a better system and I won't let people propagate fake news about it in any forum.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: For someone who has never owned one...

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

This whole thread is created and commented by some jealous folks . Why they care about Z system if that is not important? Nobody cares about Nikon Dxxx camera in Z forum.

For me Z is a better system and I won't let people propagate fake news about it in any forum.

I don't think the fellow holding the D850 has anything to be jealous about. And ...............

is this fake news?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62686544

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

This whole thread is created and commented by some jealous folks . Why they care about Z system if that is not important? Nobody cares about Nikon Dxxx camera in Z forum.

For me Z is a better system and I won't let people propagate fake news about it in any forum.

I don't think the fellow holding the D850 has anything to be jealous about. And ...............

is this fake news?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62686544

Z6 is not a wild life camera. Nikon will release Z8/Z9 for that. I haven't sold my D850 and will keep it forever. But its just that and for everything else my Z6 is a better camera with the best in the class mount. S lenses are great but its just the start as mount opened the possibility of even better lenses in the future. Its better for Nikon to totally abandon the 1949's F-mount and embrace the Z fully.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

This whole thread is created and commented by some jealous folks . Why they care about Z system if that is not important? Nobody cares about Nikon Dxxx camera in Z forum.

For me Z is a better system and I won't let people propagate fake news about it in any forum.

I don't think the fellow holding the D850 has anything to be jealous about. And ...............

is this fake news?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62686544

Z6 is not a wild life camera. Nikon will release Z8/Z9 for that. I haven't sold my D850 and will keep it forever. But its just that and for everything else my Z6 is a better camera with the best in the class mount. S lenses are great but its just the start as mount opened the possibility of even better lenses in the future. Its better for Nikon to totally abandon the 1949's F-mount and embrace the Z fully.

The preceding ad has been brought to you by Nikon.

And I'll check off as it not being fake news

1. AF not up to par

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Z7 is amongst the best ML system that got even better after the FW update.

Check the award by DPR

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

DPR is owned by Amazon. Amazon sells cameras. I don't read DPR reviews. The only one I ever read was for the Canon G5, which was my first digital camera.

But as long as it's you sold on the Z7 and not me, the world is how I'd want it to be.

This whole thread is created and commented by some jealous folks . Why they care about Z system if that is not important? Nobody cares about Nikon Dxxx camera in Z forum.

For me Z is a better system and I won't let people propagate fake news about it in any forum.

I don't think the fellow holding the D850 has anything to be jealous about. And ...............

is this fake news?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62686544

Z6 is not a wild life camera. Nikon will release Z8/Z9 for that. I haven't sold my D850 and will keep it forever. But its just that and for everything else my Z6 is a better camera with the best in the class mount. S lenses are great but its just the start as mount opened the possibility of even better lenses in the future. Its better for Nikon to totally abandon the 1949's F-mount and embrace the Z fully.

The preceding ad has been brought to you by Nikon.

And I'll check off as it not being fake news

1. AF not up to par

Yes its not on par its better . I think you missed the scientific test I posted earlier.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

Btw, I can find million threads from this very forum about D850 AF issues.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: For someone who has never owned one...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62688796

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Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,365
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
10

T O Shooter wrote:

I don't think the fellow holding the D850 has anything to be jealous about. And ...............

is this fake news?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62686544

You're pretty worked up about Nikon Z it seems....   well, it's only going to get worse with every new Z camera, every new Z lens and every new firmware update.   The D850 is indeed an excellent camera for those that get along with a larger body, ovf, etc so you might as well enjoy it while it lasts because it's only a matter of time (and probably not much time).  Even as you ignore advantages already present with the Z system, any arguments you make today about the D850 advantages may be valid but they will be less so tomorrow and even less the day after.  Whether you like it or not that is the reality of where we are in 2019.  It seems like there are two camps...  one camp has been fighting mirrorless for so long they can't let go even if it's their own brand and the other camp accepts and embraces the changes that are happening.   That doesn't mean the latter camp thinks mirrorless is categorically better and it doesn't mean that they are selling all of their DSLR gear to switch but it does mean that they are realistic about what is happening.  We may not agree on much but I think we can all agree on which camp you are in  .

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