Nikon Z advisory

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,390
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.

Among several other well known factors, the laggy viewfinder is a total disqualifier for me, so no thank you. As well, to hope that these defects will be cured in a second generation is most likely wishful thinking.

Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.

Anyone with any post processing skills can make any raw look like any other. Jpegs I don't care about.

Dude, I am talking about raw.

Not Dude, please.

You will see the difference as soon as you import the images. Now LR colors match with Nikon's in camera profile.

I don't care about or like Nikon's in camera profiles as presented by CNX2 or CNX-D. They have never looked right to me.  I much prefer Adobe Camera Standard.  Adobe has forgotten more about processing raws than Nikon or Silkypix ever knew.  But whatever you prefer is fine.

I am expert of both LR and Photoshop but for Z I have to make only minimal adjustments in LR.

Happy you!

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.

Among several other well known factors, the laggy viewfinder is a total disqualifier for me, so no thank you. As well, to hope that these defects will be cured in a second generation is most likely wishful thinking.

Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.

Anyone with any post processing skills can make any raw look like any other. Jpegs I don't care about.

Dude, I am talking about raw.

Not Dude, please.

What does Not Dude mean?

You will see the difference as soon as you import the images. Now LR colors match with Nikon's in camera profile.

I don't care about or like Nikon's in camera profiles as presented by CNX2 or CNX-D. They have never looked right to me. I much prefer Adobe Camera Standard. Adobe has forgotten more about processing raws than Nikon or Silkypix ever knew. But whatever you prefer is fine.

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,442
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

Maybe you should review your testing methodology.

Unless a camera needs a repair IF a sensible AF target is being used for calibration your results should not happen.

Think about this 

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

I agree.

However while Z can be persuaded to perform for sports, its fundamental limitations with dynamic area AF I find makes it definitely second rate for a lot of sports photography.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

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lickity split
lickity split Veteran Member • Posts: 5,383
Re: Nikon Z advisory
7

briantilley wrote:

Didn't they create a new forum for Z camera discussions...?

Yeah it’s one forum over but you better be careful only to praise the Z bodies even if they can’t AF and have service advisories or you’ll quickly be banned from commenting, the forums not interested in discussion only cheerleading....

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

lickity split wrote:

briantilley wrote:

Didn't they create a new forum for Z camera discussions...?

Yeah it’s one forum over but you better be careful only to praise the Z bodies even if they can’t AF and have service advisories or you’ll quickly be banned from commenting, the forums not interested in discussion only cheerleading....

Z,s AF got better than D850. Video AF was already better but now still AF is better too (especially for large apertures with thin DOF). Eye AF is also only on Z not on Nikon DSLRs. Nikon is committed to provide more features via future updates

AF is indeed more accurate on Z bodies than D850 for static objects.

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Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,390
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.

Among several other well known factors, the laggy viewfinder is a total disqualifier for me, so no thank you. As well, to hope that these defects will be cured in a second generation is most likely wishful thinking.

Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.

Anyone with any post processing skills can make any raw look like any other. Jpegs I don't care about.

Dude, I am talking about raw.

Not Dude, please.

What does Not Dude mean?

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

You will see the difference as soon as you import the images. Now LR colors match with Nikon's in camera profile.

I don't care about or like Nikon's in camera profiles as presented by CNX2 or CNX-D. They have never looked right to me. I much prefer Adobe Camera Standard. Adobe has forgotten more about processing raws than Nikon or Silkypix ever knew. But whatever you prefer is fine.

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

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Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,390
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

DigitalFFUser wrote:

lickity split wrote:

briantilley wrote:

Didn't they create a new forum for Z camera discussions...?

Yeah it’s one forum over but you better be careful only to praise the Z bodies even if they can’t AF and have service advisories or you’ll quickly be banned from commenting, the forums not interested in discussion only cheerleading....

Z,s AF got better than D850. Video AF was already better but now still AF is better too (especially for large apertures with thin DOF). Eye AF is also only on Z not on Nikon DSLRs. Nikon is committed to provide more features via future updates

AF is indeed more accurate on Z bodies than D850 for static objects.

Focusing a D850 is child's play.  When a Z can track a bird in flight and without viewfinder blur it might be a more interesting proposition.  Not holding my breath :^)

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earthbound_ca Senior Member • Posts: 2,228
Really?
3

bocajrs wrote:

Well...this is turning into F vs Z ....not at all the point of my post...anyways...

bocajrs wrote:

Well....for 1 I'm glad I didn't jump ship to the Z...

DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing.  As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

lickity split wrote:

briantilley wrote:

Didn't they create a new forum for Z camera discussions...?

Yeah it’s one forum over but you better be careful only to praise the Z bodies even if they can’t AF and have service advisories or you’ll quickly be banned from commenting, the forums not interested in discussion only cheerleading....

Z,s AF got better than D850. Video AF was already better but now still AF is better too (especially for large apertures with thin DOF). Eye AF is also only on Z not on Nikon DSLRs. Nikon is committed to provide more features via future updates

AF is indeed more accurate on Z bodies than D850 for static objects.

Focusing a D850 is child's play. When a Z can track a bird in flight and without viewfinder blur it might be a more interesting proposition. Not holding my breath :^)

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers; AF on D850 for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

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briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,067
Re: Nikon Z advisory
4

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

lickity split wrote:

briantilley wrote:

Didn't they create a new forum for Z camera discussions...?

Yeah it’s one forum over but you better be careful only to praise the Z bodies even if they can’t AF and have service advisories or you’ll quickly be banned from commenting, the forums not interested in discussion only cheerleading....

Z,s AF got better than D850. Video AF was already better but now still AF is better too (especially for large apertures with thin DOF). Eye AF is also only on Z not on Nikon DSLRs. Nikon is committed to provide more features via future updates

AF is indeed more accurate on Z bodies than D850 for static objects.

Focusing a D850 is child's play. When a Z can track a bird in flight and without viewfinder blur it might be a more interesting proposition. Not holding my breath :^)

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers;

If that's your conclusion, I suspect you haven't yet found the optimal settings for the D850's AF system.  In what way do you think it's deficient? (I ask as someone who has used the D850 and Z6 for portraits).

AF for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

In my opinion, you are losing credibility every time you post your exaggerated impressions of the Z cameras' capabilities.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers;

If that's your conclusion, I suspect you haven't yet found the optimal settings for the D850's AF system. In what way do you think it's deficient? (I ask as someone who has used the D850 and Z6 for portraits).

No expert's scientific conclusion.

"Autofocus is indeed more accurate with the Z7, for static subjects."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

AF for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

In my opinion, you are losing credibility every time you post your exaggerated impressions of the Z cameras' capabilities.

You will lose credibility if deny scientific conclusion.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

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briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,067
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers;

If that's your conclusion, I suspect you haven't yet found the optimal settings for the D850's AF system. In what way do you think it's deficient? (I ask as someone who has used the D850 and Z6 for portraits).

No expert's scientific conclusion.

"Autofocus is indeed more accurate with the Z7, for static subjects."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

AF for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

In my opinion, you are losing credibility every time you post your exaggerated impressions of the Z cameras' capabilities.

You will lose credibility if deny scientific conclusion.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

Posting the same link twice is unnecessary.

I would agree that the Z cameras (with on-sensor AF and now, eye AF) make accurate focus for portraits somewhat simpler, but the D850 (and other Nikon DSLR's) can do a perfectly acceptable job when set up and handled correctly.

So, I ask again - why do you think the D850 "can't hold a candle" for portraits (from your own usage, not from test charts)?

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
5

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers;

If that's your conclusion, I suspect you haven't yet found the optimal settings for the D850's AF system. In what way do you think it's deficient? (I ask as someone who has used the D850 and Z6 for portraits).

No expert's scientific conclusion.

"Autofocus is indeed more accurate with the Z7, for static subjects."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

AF for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

In my opinion, you are losing credibility every time you post your exaggerated impressions of the Z cameras' capabilities.

You will lose credibility if deny scientific conclusion.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

Posting the same link twice is unnecessary.

I would agree that the Z cameras (with on-sensor AF and now, eye AF) make accurate focus for portraits somewhat simpler, but the D850 (and other Nikon DSLR's) can do a perfectly acceptable job when set up and handled correctly.

So, I ask again - why do you think the D850 "can't hold a candle" for portraits (from your own usage, not from test charts)?

I exaggerated a bit here . Not so long ago I was madly in love with D850.   

Having said that I'd love to nail focus on eyes every single time which is not guranteed on D850 due to the very nature of the beast (its CDAF).  Some lenses like Tamron 70-200 G1 required crazy -20 fine tuning to be useful and that too doesn't work for all distances.  I have more confident with Z6 thanks to its on sensor AF and yes now we have eye AF too.

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briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,067
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

I like to take mostly portraits with shallow depth of field. Its a child's play for Z while D850 can't hold a candle and there are less keepers;

If that's your conclusion, I suspect you haven't yet found the optimal settings for the D850's AF system. In what way do you think it's deficient? (I ask as someone who has used the D850 and Z6 for portraits).

No expert's scientific conclusion.

"Autofocus is indeed more accurate with the Z7, for static subjects."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

AF for this kind of photography is not as accurate as mirror-less cameras like Z6/Z7.

For fast action I am still keeping my D850 but not everybody does BIF. For that we have D5/D850/D500. Horses for courses (not) dude.

In my opinion, you are losing credibility every time you post your exaggerated impressions of the Z cameras' capabilities.

You will lose credibility if deny scientific conclusion.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62684404

Posting the same link twice is unnecessary.

I would agree that the Z cameras (with on-sensor AF and now, eye AF) make accurate focus for portraits somewhat simpler, but the D850 (and other Nikon DSLR's) can do a perfectly acceptable job when set up and handled correctly.

So, I ask again - why do you think the D850 "can't hold a candle" for portraits (from your own usage, not from test charts)?

I exaggerated a bit here . Not so long ago I was madly in love with D850.

Having said that I'd love to nail focus on eyes every single time which is not guranteed on D850 due to the very nature of the beast (its CDAF). Some lenses like Tamron 70-200 G1 required crazy -20 fine tuning to be useful and that too doesn't work for all distances. I have more confident with Z6 thanks to its on sensor AF and yes now we have eye AF too.

Now that's a more balanced assessment

I suspect you meant "...its PDAF" (Phase Detect) rather than "...its CDAF" (Contrast Detect).  DSLR's like the D850 use CDAF in Live view; it's slower but more accurate.  Have you tried Live View for portraits, if pinpoint focus on the eye is your main consideration?

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Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,390
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

What I am trying to say that Nikon did tweak their color rendering in Z system. Colors look more constrasty and saturated now.

But I don't want exaggerated contrast and oversaturated color, I want it right where Camera Standard is.

They are not over-saturated .. processing is done just done enough for the pictures to look great straight, which means less time spent in post processing. As I said that was the first I noticed as how much better colors look when I imported the pics to LR.

Calm down a bit.  The colors are just fine on a D850 :^)

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z2122
z2122 Contributing Member • Posts: 931
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

bocajrs wrote:

Well....for 1 I'm glad I didn't jump ship to the Z...new firmware meets new Nikon service advisory At least they aren't brushing it under the rug and is being addressed.

https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nikonusa.com%2Fen%2Fservice-and-support%2Fservice-advisories%2Ftechnical-service-advisory-for-users-of-the-nikon-z-6-and-z-7-cameras.html%3Ac7EDhsC7rHKTA8vCj0zprFBIezI&cuid=1931125

as i understand not a big issue and I am happy to have a Z6. But the longer you wait the cheaper the Z bodies get.

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NCB Contributing Member • Posts: 877
Re: Nikon Z advisory
2

T O Shooter wrote:

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools for different jobs, iteration one of the Zees are lesser tools. They are a lighter alternative to a DSLR and little more. If someone is old and weak that doesn't make a Zee better. It just makes it something easier to carry around. If you're physically fit and need something lighter for backpacking, hiking, all day use, whatever, in iteration 1 of the Zees, you are sacrificing quality of product for light weight. Nothing more.

It is amazing how foolish some of the Zee owners get on. When version II or version III is good enough for me to buy, I will likely never admit it on here, as there's no way in hell I want any association with the over the top zealousness that seems to come with owning a Zee. I'll use it as the tool that it is to do a certain job - nothing more.

Saying the Z6 and Z7 are good, indeed very good, cameras is hardly over-the-top zealousness.

The D850 is arguably the best camera ever, if "best" has a meaning. If it does, then Z6 or Z7 or indeed any other camera is "not as good". Obviously. Nobody's arguing otherwise.

But ... people's requirements differ. Take your backpacker example. The backpacker will be using the camera in a specific sort of way, mainly landscapes. As an experienced backpacker I can't see that Z6 or Z7 are in any way inferior to a D850. In particular, the combination with the 24-70 S f4 gives stunning picture quality. No sacrifice in quality at all. You can have both light weight and quality.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,582
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
3

rbmphoto wrote:

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

TO, I bought one of the first D3’s available in the US. I’m quite certain I’ve been on this forum as long as you have as I’ve been here since its inception. As an constant fx owner, I still (in)frequent this forum. I noticed yet another negative Z thread here, as you pointed out, in the FX forum. I don’t see negative fx threads in the Z forum, probably because most Z owner own both - from each camp: dslr and mirrorless.

Every time I see one of those negative/critical thread, you seem to be there running off without any hands on experience, something I never used to see from you in the past.

You are right. I typically don't comment on what I don't shoot. However, every thread on the Zees over here turns into a bashing of DSLRs and in particular the D850. DigitalFFUser is an example of who shows up every time there's any Z related on the Fx forum.

The D850 in fact is very close to the Holy Grail of DSLRs, based on 2019. The Z7 is not close in the ML sector.

In 2019, most any camera body can yield exceptional results, particularly if you're going to shoot it in the areas where that body has some strengths. Which is what happened with the Z6 and Z7.

They are not that good. As I mentioned, they have sub-standard AF unless you're going to use it where AF doesn't get pushed (landscape for example). They now have a recall on them, they have one card slot, they have the adapter, there's a lack of native lenses. As Reilly points out, they come with that wonderful lag. And they're just not popular, which generally means they're not that good. Sony is wiping the floor with Nikon on the ML. And a $1640 discount in Toronto, suggest something is not quite right up on Cloud #9.

So while I have no hands on use, and I have no intentions of paying the price for a substandard product to get some, I'll make my comments based on information gleamed from reviews I've read, the "cons" that are readily identifiable, which are deal breakers for me. So while you may not like what I'm saying, and while you may not like my lack of hands on experience, I'm not wrong.

Disappointing to say the least... Is it too late to buy back your business?🙂

I hope so.

I have no issue with any criticism of any item, including those that I own, if it is by someone who actually has hands on experience with the item in question. Otherwise it is just meaningless internet drivel. Again disappointing...

You're wrong on that.

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---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory

Yes they are but Nikon tweaked the algorithms a little more and now they look even better.

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Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
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