Nikon Z advisory

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
4

bocajrs wrote:

Well...this is turning into F vs Z ....not at all the point of my post...anyways...be happy shooting either one.

I have both and I enjoy both. I have only one S lens as all my lenses are F-mount. I wish good luck for both.

I will keep my F lenses for D850 and D610 but all  my new lenses will be for Z-mount.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: Nikon Z advisory
2

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong.  The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs.  As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points.  A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today.  You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so.  Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about.  You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points  all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

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---------------------------
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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: I do love my Z7...

rbmphoto wrote:

Bought mine last October, and 810 has been shelved ever since. Don’t know if the af is quite as responsive as the 810, but don’t know that it is not. It IS always dead bang on though, which is pretty spectacular.

Used it last week at daughter’s graduation - nice to be dead silent. IBIS is a treat. Only thing I might have pause about is using it on bigger lens without support. After three decades with Nikon, I’m just used to using larger bodies with 70-200 2.8 and bigger lens.

If I were still shooting sports, I’d likely choose another body for that task, who knows if that will change in the future. If that need occurs anytime in the near future, I’ve got several other Nikon bodies to use. BTW, all my F lens with the exception of a 180d work flawlessly through the adapter.

Don’t know why the wailing and gnashing of teeth, Z’s are great photo bodies - they are not slr’s. The wonderful thing about Nikon is that you can choose either or from both camps, and use the same lens on superb bodies.

No need for either camp to feel threatened, slrs and F mount lens are not going anywhere soon. Based on my usage, I love the Z the way it is today and believe the Z line will be around for years to come as well.

There are no camps.

"So let's leave it alone, 'cause we can't see eye to eye
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree"

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---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

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Batdude
Batdude Senior Member • Posts: 4,053
Re: Or wait till first major discount & enjoy it for those 4-5 years :)
2

whoosh1 wrote:

Get it on the first major discount - and enjoy meantime. Otherwise if you want to wait 4-5 years everytime, buying used is a good opportunity - e.g. D800E now (for $600), Z7 in the year 2023 (for say another $600), etc.

A defect is a defect and sometimes a camera defect never goes away and it sucks and I wouldn’t buy one just because is on sale so I don’t see where the opportunity is.  Ok let’s say it does get fixed but right now is a gamble. Besides in 4-5 years people will be using the Z MKII bodies not these first gen ones.  But yeah in 4-5 years a Z6/7 will be dirt cheap 😀

David Lal wrote:

.. four or five years whenever a new piece of kit comes out. That way others can be the unremunerated beta testers and pay the premium purchase prices ...

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rbmphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,744
For someone who has never owned one...
7

You certainly seemed bothered by the Z line.

Is someone strongly urging you to by one?

Typically before I “mouth off” on a topic, particularly to the extent you have been posting and seemingly can’t let this go, I try to have some hands on experience with that product. You too were strongly in that camp and had been for some time.

What has changed? Why are you so bothered and expending so much energy on this topic?

You used to have better things to do with your time...

Batdude
Batdude Senior Member • Posts: 4,053
That is correct
1

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

briantilley wrote:

Mostly, I think it's just people seeking validation of their decision not to "go mirrorless". It's all a bit sad, really.

A quote from Nikon Owner Edition 64 from a Nikon SLR/DSLR owner after purchasing a Z7 "A very different way of taking photographs, not better not worse, but one that instils an alternative approach which has inspired my photography".

There is a lot of truth in this, especially "the very different way of taking photographs".

of course.  This Nikon issue has NOTHING to do with “mirrorless”.  Mirrorless is fantastic and I personally prefer it and I’m hoping that after my D4 bodies I will move on with ML, but that might not happen, yet.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

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orlandophoto
orlandophoto Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: That is correct
4

If I posted photos from my Z6 and D750, no one here could tell the difference.  To say the Z6 is inferior and a failure is a gross exaggeration.  And the video of a Z is better than any Nikon DSLR, and this is not opinion, but fact.

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DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera. Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too.  They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
2

rbmphoto wrote:

You certainly seemed bothered by the Z line.

Not in the least.  I'm disappointed in Nikon's attempt at making a ML body. I'd have bought one.

Is someone strongly urging you to by one?

Not at all.

Typically before I “mouth off” on a topic, particularly to the extent you have been posting and seemingly can’t let this go, I try to have some hands on experience with that product. You too were strongly in that camp and had been for some time.

There are no camps. I do have an issue with fellows portraying it as the Holy Grail, everything Nikon is Golden and so on.  I've seen enough reviews, read enough on the issues to take a position on the Zee line. It does not take much to discover it has poorer AF, one card slot, an adapter than many take issue with, the need for an adapter in itself, the fact that the Z6 would have made a nice ML Df except for the fact you can't meter those nice old Ai and Ais primes properly, too small, won't balance with large lenses properly, and the idea that Nikon intends to sell anyone that buys one a whole new set of lenses that will not take one image better then I can take now with my f mount. I certainly not going to buy one to prove I'm right. It just dropped $1600 in Toronto, so it is tanking.

What has changed? Why are you so bothered and expending so much energy on this topic?

I just have a side to the discussion. Z owners don't want anyone to have a different side to the discussion. I'm wondering if DPR wants anyone to have a different side to the discussion. I've been told by other members that a different opinion doesn't float on the Z forum.  Not sure what it's like on FM. I had meant to ask.

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

You used to have better things to do with your time...

I sold my business in January and taking some time before starting something else. I did find some time this evening to shot a rare (and in the wild) Albino moose.

And I'm not sure I ever spent my time on better things.

And I am disappointed that it's not better then it is (ie my points above)  I'd have bought one.

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---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera.

Why might that have been?

Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too. They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

Post some images that show me where your S lens/lenses were the difference. It should not be too much to ask of someone so boastful about how good they are. I'm willing to be convinced.

-- hide signature --

A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

 T O Shooter's gear list:T O Shooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot G5 Nikon D4S Nikon D500 Nikon D850 +5 more
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera.

Why might that have been?

I am hoping for even bigger discounts so that i can buy even more.  I would love to buy 24-70 F2.8 S as at the moment its beyond my reach.

Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too. They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

Post some images that show me where your S lens/lenses were the difference. It should not be too much to ask of someone so boastful about how good they are. I'm willing to be convinced.

I am willing to meet you in person in Mississauga.  In the mean time check comparison by other people 24-70 f2,8 S lens with F mount one.  S version is winning hands downs.

Sony has been in ML game for so long yet Nikon was able to come in par and even exceed in its first generation.  As a software engineer I can tell how tough to achieve this. Kudos to Nikon and its engineering team.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,588
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera.

Why might that have been?

I am hoping for even bigger discounts so that i can buy even more. I would love to buy 24-70 F2.8 S as at the moment its beyond my reach.

Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too. They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

Post some images that show me where your S lens/lenses were the difference. It should not be too much to ask of someone so boastful about how good they are. I'm willing to be convinced.

I am willing to meet you in person in Mississauga.

Doesn't need a meeting. I'd like to see some images from you to back up your claims.

In the mean time check comparison by other people 24-70 f2,8 S lens with F mount one. S version is winning hands downs.

Sony has been in ML game for so long yet Nikon was able to come in par and even exceed in its first generation. As a software engineer I can tell how tough to achieve this. Kudos to Nikon and its engineering team.

-- hide signature --

A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

 T O Shooter's gear list:T O Shooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot G5 Nikon D4S Nikon D500 Nikon D850 +5 more
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera.

Why might that have been?

I am hoping for even bigger discounts so that i can buy even more. I would love to buy 24-70 F2.8 S as at the moment its beyond my reach.

Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too. They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

Post some images that show me where your S lens/lenses were the difference. It should not be too much to ask of someone so boastful about how good they are. I'm willing to be convinced.

I am willing to meet you in person in Mississauga.

Doesn't need a meeting. I'd like to see some images from you to back up your claims.

Meeting is needed .. I have some images taken from D50 that look better than both D610 and D850.  We need to do side by side comparison in a controlled environment.

I will show both D850 and Z6 images to you. Both are great but its a win for Z as its just a 24 MP camera using the kit zoom.

Prepared to be surprised by Z colors as Nikon tweaked their algorithms for better. Z colors are much better than D850 and hardly require any post processing like D610 or even D850 (D850 is better than D610 though).

In the mean time check comparison by other people 24-70 f2,8 S lens with F mount one. S version is winning hands downs.

Sony has been in ML game for so long yet Nikon was able to come in par and even exceed in its first generation. As a software engineer I can tell how tough to achieve this. Kudos to Nikon and its engineering team.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
1

T O Shooter wrote:

rbmphoto wrote:

You certainly seemed bothered by the Z line.

Not in the least. I'm disappointed in Nikon's attempt at making a ML body. I'd have bought one.

Is someone strongly urging you to by one?

Not at all.

Typically before I “mouth off” on a topic, particularly to the extent you have been posting and seemingly can’t let this go, I try to have some hands on experience with that product. You too were strongly in that camp and had been for some time.

There are no camps. I do have an issue with fellows portraying it as the Holy Grail, everything Nikon is Golden and so on. I've seen enough reviews, read enough on the issues to take a position on the Zee line. It does not take much to discover it has poorer AF, one card slot, an adapter than many take issue with, the need for an adapter in itself, the fact that the Z6 would have made a nice ML Df except for the fact you can't meter those nice old Ai and Ais primes properly, too small, won't balance with large lenses properly, and the idea that Nikon intends to sell anyone that buys one a whole new set of lenses that will not take one image better then I can take now with my f mount. I certainly not going to buy one to prove I'm right. It just dropped $1600 in Toronto, so it is tanking.

Z mount is certainly better than F mount. Its Physics dude. Check out the 24-70 S zooms especially 24-70 F2.8 S. Its better than anything offered by any manufacturer in that range.

Z has the best balance and ergonomics than any ML in the market.  New S lenses are better than F mount.  Z cameras + superior S lenses is light weight killer combo.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,398
Re: Nikon Z advisory

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

AZBlue wrote:

You like your Z, and that's good for you. Stick with what you know. Perhaps you shouldn't speak for the many well respected folks who have used and reviewed this product, and who have clearly identified many of its shortcomings. Doing so only puts you into the category of trying to rationalize your purchase by invoking straw men.

I you invoking inverse logic - and also using straw men?

I like my Z for some things, my D850 for others, and my D500 for yet other things

Nobody has yet produced an ML body, or a DSLR, which is perfect for everything, though any one option might be perfect for one specific photographer.

The only area for me of doubt with Z is Dynamic area AF is not as flexible for focus tracking (moving toward or away from the camera) as D850 or D500.

When it comes to movement across the frame or focus on an eye Z has it - and DSLR's generally do not.

If you can accept neither is better - or worse - just different - maybe you are on this Earth and not on Fullers Earth.

The Z6 and Z7 is worse than the D850. Plain and simple. While there are different tools

I own both D850 and Z6 and can tell you that Z6 even at 24 MP is giving D850 run for its money.

1) It stablized all my F-mount lenses.

2) New S lenses are amazing. I was blown away by kit lens's quality as it was better than my G primes.

3) Live view with histogram is so much helpful.

4) of course its lighter. Despite being young and body builder I enjoy this light setup more.

5) SOOC quality of Z is better than D850 and D610.

6) All my f-mount lenses are producing tack sharp images whereas on D850 I had to fine tune all my lenses.

7) Video on Z6 is at least million times better than D850.

8) Eye AF on Z6 is amongst the best implementations.

9) IBIS on Z6 is one of the best. So easy to take photos at slow shutter speeds now/

The list goes on and on.

Conclusion: Z cameras are better cameras than D850 in wide variety of situations.

You are wrong. The D850 in the pinnacle of DSLRs. As refined and near perfect as it comes.

The Z6 and Z7 has missed on a lot of points. A couple of weeks ago, this could have been written off as a "he said, she said" thingy.

But not today. You have the dismal Zee sales figures that were posted here within the last week or so. Sony is wiping the floor with them. You have the recall that this thread is about. You have a $1640 discount here in Toronto on a Z7 + FTZ adapter. That's sixteen hundred and forty dollars! You can ignore those three points all you want, you can explain them away all you want. But in May 2019 the Zees are at least half a failure. If the Z7/Z6II or III are as improved as they need to be, I'll have a look.

I also live in GTA

I got my Z6 on a good discount and it's a fabulous camera.

Why might that have been?

I am hoping for even bigger discounts so that i can buy even more. I would love to buy 24-70 F2.8 S as at the moment its beyond my reach.

Using all my F mount lenses. With the latest update it got even better. My Z6 is a good buddy of my D850 ..it's just that it's better in more situations than D850. .. I don't care about Sony as I can't use my F mount lenses like Z6.

I hope they discount S lenses too. They are super sharp and much better than F counterparts.

Post some images that show me where your S lens/lenses were the difference. It should not be too much to ask of someone so boastful about how good they are. I'm willing to be convinced.

I am willing to meet you in person in Mississauga.

Doesn't need a meeting. I'd like to see some images from you to back up your claims.

Meeting is needed .. I have some images taken from D50 that look better than both D610 and D850. We need to do side by side comparison in a controlled environment.

I will show both D850 and Z6 images to you. Both are great but its a win for Z as its just a 24 MP camera using the kit zoom.

Prepared to be surprised by Z colors as Nikon tweaked their algorithms for better. Z colors are much better than D850

I might believe it if I saw it, lol!

and hardly require any post processing like D610 or even D850 (D850 is better than D610 though).

In the mean time check comparison by other people 24-70 f2,8 S lens with F mount one. S version is winning hands downs.

Sony has been in ML game for so long yet Nikon was able to come in par and even exceed in its first generation. As a software engineer I can tell how tough to achieve this. Kudos to Nikon and its engineering team.

 Reilly Diefenbach's gear list:Reilly Diefenbach's gear list
Nikon D500 Nikon D850
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
3

Meeting is needed .. I have some images taken from D50 that look better than both D610 and D850. We need to do side by side comparison in a controlled environment.

I will show both D850 and Z6 images to you. Both are great but its a win for Z as its just a 24 MP camera using the kit zoom.

Prepared to be surprised by Z colors as Nikon tweaked their algorithms for better. Z colors are much better than D850

I might believe it if I saw it, lol!

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.  Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.  This is the first thing I noticed when I bought Z (as I was not expecting my Z6 to be that much better than both D610 and D850).

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 13,398
Re: Nikon Z advisory
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Meeting is needed .. I have some images taken from D50 that look better than both D610 and D850. We need to do side by side comparison in a controlled environment.

I will show both D850 and Z6 images to you. Both are great but its a win for Z as its just a 24 MP camera using the kit zoom.

Prepared to be surprised by Z colors as Nikon tweaked their algorithms for better. Z colors are much better than D850

I might believe it if I saw it, lol!

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.

Among several other well known factors, the laggy viewfinder is a total disqualifier for me, so no thank you.  As well, to hope that these defects will be cured in a second generation is most likely wishful thinking.

Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.

Anyone with any post processing skills can make any raw look like any other.  Jpegs I don't care about.

This is the first thing I noticed when I bought Z (as I was not expecting my Z6 to be that much better than both D610 and D850).

I would ask for a Dropbox of raws from both cameras, but am not going to hold my breath :^)

 Reilly Diefenbach's gear list:Reilly Diefenbach's gear list
Nikon D500 Nikon D850
rbmphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,744
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
7

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

TO, I bought one of the first D3’s available in the US. I’m quite certain I’ve been on this forum as long as you have as I’ve been here since its inception. As an constant fx owner, I still (in)frequent this forum. I noticed yet another negative Z thread here, as you pointed out, in the FX forum. I don’t see negative fx threads in the Z forum, probably because most Z owner own both - from each camp: dslr and mirrorless.

Every time I see one of those negative/critical thread, you seem to be there running off without any hands on experience, something I never used to see from you in the past. Disappointing to say the least...  Is it too late to buy back your business?🙂

I have no issue with any criticism of any item, including those that I own, if it is by someone who actually has hands on experience with the item in question. Otherwise it is just meaningless internet drivel. Again disappointing...

DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: Nikon Z advisory
2

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

Meeting is needed .. I have some images taken from D50 that look better than both D610 and D850. We need to do side by side comparison in a controlled environment.

I will show both D850 and Z6 images to you. Both are great but its a win for Z as its just a 24 MP camera using the kit zoom.

Prepared to be surprised by Z colors as Nikon tweaked their algorithms for better. Z colors are much better than D850

I might believe it if I saw it, lol!

Grab a Z yourself and do a side by side comparison.

Among several other well known factors, the laggy viewfinder is a total disqualifier for me, so no thank you. As well, to hope that these defects will be cured in a second generation is most likely wishful thinking.

Nikon's new color rendering is pure magic.

Anyone with any post processing skills can make any raw look like any other. Jpegs I don't care about.

Dude, I am talking about raw.

You will see the difference as soon as you import the images.  Now LR colors match with Nikon's in camera profile.

I am expert of both LR and Photoshop but for Z I have to make only minimal adjustments in LR.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,359
Re: For someone who has never owned one...
5

rbmphoto wrote:

What I find amusing is that every time a Z discussion starts over here, fellows such as yourself float over here to defend the Z. IMO, you know what you've bought and really, deep down, you know what I'm saying is true. There'd be no discussion on any of this here if you stuck to the Z forum and discussed the Z there.

TO, I bought one of the first D3’s available in the US. I’m quite certain I’ve been on this forum as long as you have as I’ve been here since its inception. As an constant fx owner, I still (in)frequent this forum. I noticed yet another negative Z thread here, as you pointed out, in the FX forum. I don’t see negative fx threads in the Z forum, probably because most Z owner own both - from each camp: dslr and mirrorless.

Every time I see one of those negative/critical thread, you seem to be there running off without any hands on experience, something I never used to see from you in the past. Disappointing to say the least... Is it too late to buy back your business?🙂

I have no issue with any criticism of any item, including those that I own, if it is by someone who actually has hands on experience with the item in question. Otherwise it is just meaningless internet drivel. Again disappointing...

This TO guy is making a fool of himself. He has a negative bias against Z and fighting with those who own tons of F mount gear. I love both (Z & F) but now more in love with Z camera and S lenses.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
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