how to compare camera to mobile phone?

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
PhotoTeach2 Senior Member • Posts: 9,863
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
1

SergeyAU wrote:

no, it was intentional just to show a silhouette

again, this was taken with a phone on auto settings

"Auto" does not work on night sky w/ moon, (moon will over-expose).

FULL-moon high in CLEAR-sky exposure is f/11 @ 1/125s @ ISO-250.

OP SergeyAU Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

and to keep them both in focus I would have to take 2 shots with different focus points and then do some Photoshop magic. Understood

Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,685
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

SergeyAU wrote:

This is what was taken with my mobile. I don't have a photo from the camera handy, but it was not pretty. Too much noise as I upped ISO while trying to capture a child standing still at 1/200 etc

I was hoping to take a better photo on my M100 than that of a mobile phone, but I did not succeed on this occasion

It would be really helpful if you would post the image from the camera complete with the settings.  Shouldn't be difficult to do a silhouette.

PS: Image is not an original from the camera, but a resized version

Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,685
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
3

PhotoTeach2 wrote:

SergeyAU wrote:

But how can I set them the same, as my mobile is F/1.7 and my lens is F/3.6?

f/3.6 @ ISO-2500 @ 1/125s.

But if you are shooting for MOON exposure, that will over-expose. (you can use f/11 @ 1/125s @ ISO-250 if moon is FULL & "high" in CLEAR sky)

Note: You need to use f/8, f/5.6, or even f/3.6 if moon is is lower ... (but the closer subject/silhouette will be blurry if focused on moon)

But you will need FLASH for correct subject exposure at night w/ moon in background.

Flash will defeat the OP's desire to do a silhouette, which was stated earlier in the thread.

pocoloco Senior Member • Posts: 2,110
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
4

Forget about the comparison. Too  much compute happening on the phone.

Pixel binning, stacking, all kinds of AI, etc etc. This  will impact the result much more then the exposure settings.

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 23,435
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

SergeyAU wrote:

One of the reasons why I ask this question is because I am very amateur photographer and I don't always know what to dial into manual settings. So the idea was that I can use my phone to take a test snap and then convert it to my camera settings if I liked the picture from mobile

I think there's too much magic sauce in a phone to make that practical.

Don't use manual settings, use S mode for hand held work and A mode with a tripod. Take a test photo with your camera, look at the result on the screen, and adjust the exposure compensation if the test is too dark or too light.

Or, in very difficult lighting, set the camera to bracket all the shots; and save raw files as well as JPG so that you can rescue some of the doubtful results.

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 23,435
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

PhotoTeach2 wrote:

SergeyAU wrote:

no, it was intentional just to show a silhouette

again, this was taken with a phone on auto settings

"Auto" does not work on night sky w/ moon, (moon will over-expose).

FULL-moon high in CLEAR-sky exposure is f/11 @ 1/125s @ ISO-250.

Yes, the Moon is a special case.

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 23,435
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
3

SergeyAU wrote:

This just feels strange, that on a bigger sensor I have to use much higher ISO than on the smaller sensor?

You do if you want equally bad results.

Chris R-UK Forum Pro • Posts: 19,426
Use exposure compensation

Make sure that the LCD is showing a simulation of the exposure and use the exposure compensation dial to adjust the exposure to get the image that you want.

You may have to be in P mode rather than full auto to be able to adjust the exposure compensation.  Check the manual.

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 13,540
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
2

SergeyAU wrote:

So, thinking about it, if I want similar picture as my phone, I set my camera to F/6.5, same shutter speed of 1/125 and ISO of 18168 (just using numbers). But it will be grainy as hell! I have to try it tonight and see for myself. And if I can lower the aperture to say 3.5, I can also drop the ISO, which should produce much better/cleaner image...

The phone is probably using a lot of noise reduction so you might as well do the same on the camera.

You also can gain by using a slower shutter speed: you may be able to get away with 1/30th a second, which gains you two stops more light. I’d take a burst of photos just in case.

But where many phones do so much better than many cameras is automatic image stacking and high dynamic range techniques. Now I’ve done those things for years on my cameras but it is hardly fast and convenient.

Sometimes the phone just “wins” and we shouldn’t fret over it.

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Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 15,772
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
1

SergeyAU wrote:

This is what was taken with my mobile. I don't have a photo from the camera handy, but it was not pretty. Too much noise as I upped ISO while trying to capture a child standing still at 1/200 etc

The phone probably applies a lot of noise reduction; the fact that it does that quietly in the background is one of the many reasons why you can't translate the settings from your phone to the camera.

1/50s will freeze motion of someone standing still, so you starved your sensor of 3/4 of the light it could have received. That translates into doubling the noise.

I was hoping to take a better photo on my M100 than that of a mobile phone, but I did not succeed on this occasion

As you were there and there were few clouds around to obscure the moon in the next few minutes the obvious thing was to experiment with different settings on the camera while you had the subject available.

PS: Image is not an original from the camera, but a resized version

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OP SergeyAU Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

Took some photos. Both freehand (off the knee)

Mobile photo is not adjusted. Camera ohoto only lens correction and a bit of noise reduction. Images are sized in Photoshop, so info on mobile image EXIF is not correct

Camera

f/3.5 1sec ISO 2500 Focal 15mm

Mobile

f/1.5 1/4sec ISO 1250 Focal 4mm

And the last one is from mobile @ 1sec f/1.5 ISO 800 (does not go above that in the manual mode)

OP SergeyAU Forum Member • Posts: 52
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

the photo is of the moon halo. But yes, could have tried few settings, but 4 yo child did not want to stand there for long

baloo_buc Forum Pro • Posts: 10,146
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
1

You need such high ISO because you have to match how bad are the results of the small sensor. That's why you get better results with larger sensors. You have to reduce the exposure in order to get the bad results of iPhone or other cell phones.

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 25,685
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
1

SergeyAU wrote:

Took some photos. Both freehand (off the knee)

Mobile photo is not adjusted. Camera ohoto only lens correction and a bit of noise reduction. Images are sized in Photoshop, so info on mobile image EXIF is not correct

Camera

f/3.5 1sec ISO 2500 Focal 15mm

Mobile

f/1.5 1/4sec ISO 1250 Focal 4mm

And the last one is from mobile @ 1sec f/1.5 ISO 800 (does not go above that in the manual mode)

These aren't worth comparing.  There's blur due to hand-holding a 1-sec exposure, and noise due to high ISO.  Use a tripod, or do a comparison of daylight images if you don't have a tripod.

Jimmy K.
Jimmy K. Contributing Member • Posts: 947
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

1. On matching to mobile phone: assuming you want to do this in normal light condition and without computational processing (like portrait mode or some depth of field adjustment):

  • Use Aperture priority. Turn aperture to F8 to F11. This will emulate the large depth of field on cellphone.
  • Don't touch the ISO. I don't think you want true equivalence. You should emulate the "phone" look without the noise. If you want to add noise, you can do it using some filter post processing (on your computer).
  • No need to touch shutter speed. In normal light, camera will pick high enough shutter speed.
  • Use JPEG only. Use Color Profile: Vivid.

2. I don't know why you want to match those night photograph on cell phone. Wouldn't you want to spend the time learn how to make better night photographs? It is very extreme, unique case. Taking night photographs of garbage cans And night photography typically is for landscape, not people.

  • Get a tripod
  • Use Manual Mode
  • Set Aperture to F8. Set Iso to 400. Then adjust the shutter speed until your exposure meter reads 0. Shutter speed will be long for night photography.

Here is an example, with M100 with kit lens. I don't know this poster, just found it using search. For example, he used Aperture F8, Shutter Speed 8 sec, ISO 320

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4272832

Gerry Winterbourne Forum Pro • Posts: 15,772
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?

SergeyAU wrote:

Took some photos. Both freehand (off the knee)

Well, although none of them is good the camera picture is rather better than the phone pictures, so I don't know why you are trying to convert the phone settings.

Mobile photo is not adjusted. Camera ohoto only lens correction and a bit of noise reduction. Images are sized in Photoshop, so info on mobile image EXIF is not correct

Camera

f/3.5 1sec ISO 2500 Focal 15mm

Mobile

f/1.5 1/4sec ISO 1250 Focal 4mm

And the last one is from mobile @ 1sec f/1.5 ISO 800 (does not go above that in the manual mode)

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PhozoKozmos
PhozoKozmos Senior Member • Posts: 1,535
compare different camera systems: for identical DoF + FoV AoV + Shutterspeed

SergeyAU wrote:

there was a discussion before about why phones seem to take better pictures these days. I am just trying to work out a simple formula to convert settings that my s9 has taken pictures with to settings on my Canon M100

S9 crop factor is 6.1 (1/2.55" sensor)

M100 crop factor is 1.6

Is there a simple calculator somewhere to convert aperture, shutter, ISO from one size sensor to another?

If phone used f1.7, 1/125, ISO 1200, what should I set my camera to for a similar looking picture?

match:

  • FoV AoV (identical)
  • DoF (actual aperture diameter size) = Identical
  • shutterspeeds = Identical (desired freeze action or blur effect)
  • same visual look (adjust different boost ISO effect)

ignore:

  • ignore iso boost (adjust live boost preview to same visual look) = different ISO is normal (expected)
  • ignore pixel size (different; cannot change anyway)
  • ignore f-value brightness (going to be different anyway, in order to match exact same visual dof via identical aperture diameters used)
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PhotoTeach2 Senior Member • Posts: 9,863
Re: how to compare camera to mobile phone?
1

SergeyAU wrote:

But how can I set them the same, as my mobile is F/1.7 and my lens is F/3.6?

This is VERY VERY VERY S-I-M-P-L-E ..

Simply compensate for the smaller f/stop with longer Shutter-Speed --OR-- higher ISO, (not BOTH).

Then the equivalent exposure WILL still BE THE SAME.

The standard f/stops are f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16.

So your f/1.7 is between 1.4 and 2.

Your f/3.6 is between 2.8 and 4, (so almost 2stops smaller)

So SIMPLY "compensate" by using (almost) 2-stops (longer) SHUTTER-SPEED (so 1/30 on "M" instead of 1/125s on phone)

OR, (or ... not BOTH)

Simply using (almost) 2X ISO (so ISO-2500 instead of ISO-1200 on phone)  NOTE: This is ASS-U-ME-ing that the ISO calibration is the same between phone & camera -- and it may not be.

(or alternately you could use BOTH 1-stop longer shutter-speed and 1-stop higher ISO.)P

I keep repeating, (but you don't seem to be hearing), that EXPOSURE SETTINGS are the SAME, only the DOF, (and noise-levels), are different. YOU ARE ONLY COMPENSATING W/ SAME OFFSETTING SETTINGS.

The DOF will be shorter/shallower on "M", and noise-levels will be lower on "M".

The Crop-Factor ONLY applies to "equivalent" FOCAL-LENGTH or DOF, (f/1.7 on phone equivalent to between f/8 and f/11 on "M").

The Exposure-SETTINGS remain the SAME. (albeit will need to be inversely offset from f/1.7 to f/3.6)

Franglais91 Contributing Member • Posts: 881
HDR as well

pocoloco wrote:

Forget about the comparison. Too much compute happening on the phone.

Pixel binning, stacking, all kinds of AI, etc etc. This will impact the result much more then the exposure settings.

I'm almost sure that in contrasty situations where I would have a difficult job getting a good picture, my smartphone is doing a HDR image i.e. taking three or more pictures at different exposures and combining them to make an image where the contrast is Under control. Automatically. In an instant. And the result is beautiful.

OK I know how to do an HDR image but it's a lot of work plus I prefer to have the camera on a tripod when I do it.

I think that smartphone designers have taken our most advanced photography techniques, automated them with hardware that you just can't do on a regular camera and developed an AI system that recognises the scene and picks the best solution for the case.

You can't just set the same aperture etc. on your camera. You have to master techniques like HDR and have the time to use it.

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