Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh

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Lothman Contributing Member • Posts: 899
Re: Mirrorless is dead end of photography.
9

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

For various wrong reasons, the lenses and cameras grew in size considerably, to the point that they impose an impediment in everyday use. It affected me too; the strain in my shoulder and visits to the doctors forced me to use lightweight digital mirrorless equipment. I am not very happy about it, because I seem to be eating my own words about the dead end of photography, but I chose M43, because it is the closest idea to the more open SLR era than anything else available on the market today.

If you would follow your own word, skip all digital. Cut off your internet immediatedly, do not look on digital information on a computer monitor and do not use any optics which all the time distort reality.

Take a piece of paper and a pencil and draw the world like you like it best. This also would help your shoulder.

DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 5,595
Re: Mirrorless is dead end of photography.
6

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

I was not sarcastic. I already wrote somewhere that the digital mirrorless is the dead end of photography, and that includes smartphones.

It is the dead end because all physicality about the photographic tools and objective assessment of equipment is gone from the equation.

The camera has become a box loaded with chips and software that do all the job for us, most of it we have no idea how or why it is done. The loss of physicality is so extreme with the digital mirrorless that even a lens in a mirrorless camera can be utter rubbish but it will be corrected in the software and no one will know how it really behaves.

All objective measurements are gone.

Mirrorless lenses can't be used between different mirrorless systems, and this causes rapid shrinking of the camera market because each mirrorless lens system has become a separated island that cannot communicate with its neighbour.

This is the antithesis of the SLR era; in the SLR era, photography expanded rapidly and in all walks of life thanks to a concept of interchangeable lenses with longer flange distance that can be shared among the different camera makers.

Software correction did not exist then, cameras and all equipment had to be physically very well made and up to a high standard. Within the same film format, it was guaranteed that the lens will work regardless of the camera behind it.

Now all that is gone. Digital photography has become a type of Pocket Tanks game, in which players devise own pathetic and proprietary camera and lens systems that cannot talk to each other, but only shoot bombs at each other while destroying the landscape.

However, that physicality of the SLR era has become deformed physicality with the digital SLR (DSLR), especially with the shift towards the FF.

For various wrong reasons, the lenses and cameras grew in size considerably, to the point that they impose an impediment in everyday use. It affected me too; the strain in my shoulder and visits to the doctors forced me to use lightweight digital mirrorless equipment. I am not very happy about it, because I seem to be eating my own words about the dead end of photography, but I chose M43, because it is the closest idea to the more open SLR era than anything else available on the market today.

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........but you know ..... sometimes it's a good idea to take a little pause from it ........ give yourself a little "window" to gaze out ..... and take a glance at the planet Earth and it's dwellers .........

........ look at it as a day out .......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

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johnami
johnami Senior Member • Posts: 1,097
Re: Mirrorless is dead end of photography.

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

I was not sarcastic. I already wrote somewhere that the digital mirrorless is the dead end of photography, and that includes smartphones.

It is the dead end because all physicality about the photographic tools and objective assessment of equipment is gone from the equation.

The camera has become a box loaded with chips and software that do all the job for us, most of it we have no idea how or why it is done. The loss of physicality is so extreme with the digital mirrorless that even a lens in a mirrorless camera can be utter rubbish but it will be corrected in the software and no one will know how it really behaves.

All objective measurements are gone.

Mirrorless lenses can't be used between different mirrorless systems, and this causes rapid shrinking of the camera market because each mirrorless lens system has become a separated island that cannot communicate with its neighbour.

This is the antithesis of the SLR era; in the SLR era, photography expanded rapidly and in all walks of life thanks to a concept of interchangeable lenses with longer flange distance that can be shared among the different camera makers.

Software correction did not exist then, cameras and all equipment had to be physically very well made and up to a high standard. Within the same film format, it was guaranteed that the lens will work regardless of the camera behind it.

Now all that is gone. Digital photography has become a type of Pocket Tanks game, in which players devise own pathetic and proprietary camera and lens systems that cannot talk to each other, but only shoot bombs at each other while destroying the landscape.

However, that physicality of the SLR era has become deformed physicality with the digital SLR (DSLR), especially with the shift towards the FF.

For various wrong reasons, the lenses and cameras grew in size considerably, to the point that they impose an impediment in everyday use. It affected me too; the strain in my shoulder and visits to the doctors forced me to use lightweight digital mirrorless equipment. I am not very happy about it, because I seem to be eating my own words about the dead end of photography, but I chose M43, because it is the closest idea to the more open SLR era than anything else available on the market today.

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........but you know ..... sometimes it's a good idea to take a little pause from it ........ give yourself a little "window" to gaze out ..... and take a glance at the planet Earth and it's dwellers .........

........ look at it as a day out .......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

There is no smoke without 🔥...😇

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Heliar Forum Member • Posts: 89
Re: Mirrorless is dead end of photography.

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

I was not sarcastic. I already wrote somewhere that the digital mirrorless is the dead end of photography, and that includes smartphones.

It is the dead end because all physicality about the photographic tools and objective assessment of equipment is gone from the equation.

The camera has become a box loaded with chips and software that do all the job for us, most of it we have no idea how or why it is done. The loss of physicality is so extreme with the digital mirrorless that even a lens in a mirrorless camera can be utter rubbish but it will be corrected in the software and no one will know how it really behaves.

All objective measurements are gone.

Mirrorless lenses can't be used between different mirrorless systems, and this causes rapid shrinking of the camera market because each mirrorless lens system has become a separated island that cannot communicate with its neighbour.

This is the antithesis of the SLR era; in the SLR era, photography expanded rapidly and in all walks of life thanks to a concept of interchangeable lenses with longer flange distance that can be shared among the different camera makers.

Software correction did not exist then, cameras and all equipment had to be physically very well made and up to a high standard. Within the same film format, it was guaranteed that the lens will work regardless of the camera behind it.

Now all that is gone. Digital photography has become a type of Pocket Tanks game, in which players devise own pathetic and proprietary camera and lens systems that cannot talk to each other, but only shoot bombs at each other while destroying the landscape.

However, that physicality of the SLR era has become deformed physicality with the digital SLR (DSLR), especially with the shift towards the FF.

For various wrong reasons, the lenses and cameras grew in size considerably, to the point that they impose an impediment in everyday use. It affected me too; the strain in my shoulder and visits to the doctors forced me to use lightweight digital mirrorless equipment. I am not very happy about it, because I seem to be eating my own words about the dead end of photography, but I chose M43, because it is the closest idea to the more open SLR era than anything else available on the market today.

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........but you know ..... sometimes it's a good idea to take a little pause from it ........ give yourself a little "window" to gaze out ..... and take a glance at the planet Earth and it's dwellers .........

........ look at it as a day out .......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

'Trolling is a art', as the old Internet saying goes. And Zvonimir truly is an artisan.

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Ian Stuart Forsyth
Ian Stuart Forsyth Veteran Member • Posts: 3,545
The Big Problem with ML
1

Batdude wrote:

This is the reason why Ricoh is not going ML?

"But I believe the DSLR has its own appealing point, because users can create their own image from the optical viewfinder. People can see the beautiful image through the optical viewfinder, and then think how they can create their pictures -- for example, exposure level setting or white balance or ISO [sensitivity] -- and then imagine how they can get [the result they're seeking]."

I shoot with both systems, one DSLR and one ML and whenever I look thru the OVF of my DSLR none of the reasons above come into play. Prior to taking a photo I do see what my surrounding is, like lots of light or poor low light, so I do have an idea of how I need to set my camera, but the very first thing I do after pressing the shutter is to chimp to check the photo, then I usually have to make a few more adjustments.

That's right, the exposure is usually the very first thing we want to look at, then we can get an idea of what we want to do from there then we proceed to PP to get creative and do our art. Whenever I see my subject thru the OVF I never see anything "beautiful" hahahaha! so that reason and explanation from Ricoh sucks. I don't buy it.

Yeah DSLR has it's strengths that's one of the reasons why I still use them and I would not mind buying another Pentax DSLR, but IMHO OVF is old technology and we will always have to chimp with them, which is really annoying. Trying to check and chimp thru your photos when you are doing a wedding (among many other things) is one of THE worst experiences ever. OVF is going to go away soon.

Does Ricoh think we are little ignorant children or something? Man those guys really need to work on what they say during interviews. That's just my opinion.

The big problem with ML is that it does not correct the problems that you may think it solves over an OVF

Here is what the ML the image we see thru the VF

The problem is that if I am shooting raw I really need to see this

And any chimping I am doing to adjust my exposure with out this I still needing to work around what the camera is doing

Because without this I am still left to not getting the real information that is contained with my DNG file so what has EVF given me? Only time this helps me is if I am shooting jpg

What I am left with is what someone half a world away thinks what my image should look like.

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The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release

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petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,497
Re: Mirrorless is dead end of photography.

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Tom Lusk wrote:

Batdude wrote:

...

Canon and Nikon who knows that the heck is going to happen to those two. It is too uncertain and their ML first gen systems were not a home run.

I've always said this Pentax does have a chance here, probably only one more chance to get it right and they do make a fantastic product, no doubt, but they need to stop moving like a turtle and they have to come up with an updated AF, not "update" based on their existing lame AF but a true updated AF based on what everyone else has already. And lenses OMG they seriously need to speed things up. The last thing they need to do is to show some serious interest in their own brand, which they clearly don't.

Methinks you failed to recognize the sarcasm...

I was not sarcastic. I already wrote somewhere that the digital mirrorless is the dead end of photography, and that includes smartphones.

It is the dead end because all physicality about the photographic tools and objective assessment of equipment is gone from the equation.

The camera has become a box loaded with chips and software that do all the job for us, most of it we have no idea how or why it is done. The loss of physicality is so extreme with the digital mirrorless that even a lens in a mirrorless camera can be utter rubbish but it will be corrected in the software and no one will know how it really behaves.

All objective measurements are gone.

Mirrorless lenses can't be used between different mirrorless systems, and this causes rapid shrinking of the camera market because each mirrorless lens system has become a separated island that cannot communicate with its neighbour.

This is the antithesis of the SLR era; in the SLR era, photography expanded rapidly and in all walks of life thanks to a concept of interchangeable lenses with longer flange distance that can be shared among the different camera makers.

Software correction did not exist then, cameras and all equipment had to be physically very well made and up to a high standard. Within the same film format, it was guaranteed that the lens will work regardless of the camera behind it.

Now all that is gone. Digital photography has become a type of Pocket Tanks game, in which players devise own pathetic and proprietary camera and lens systems that cannot talk to each other, but only shoot bombs at each other while destroying the landscape.

However, that physicality of the SLR era has become deformed physicality with the digital SLR (DSLR), especially with the shift towards the FF.

For various wrong reasons, the lenses and cameras grew in size considerably, to the point that they impose an impediment in everyday use. It affected me too; the strain in my shoulder and visits to the doctors forced me to use lightweight digital mirrorless equipment. I am not very happy about it, because I seem to be eating my own words about the dead end of photography, but I chose M43, because it is the closest idea to the more open SLR era than anything else available on the market today.

What a glorious post. Thank you. Perhaps the only thing missing from the interview is their saying that Pentax’s greatest new innovation - deliberately having very few digital innovations, new cameras or new lenses at all - will soon leave Canon and Nikon quaking in their boots, but perhaps they were laughing too hard.

Seriously, though, there is a very strong case to be made that modern cameras have taken the enjoyment out of photography. The experience is not of selecting and making an image in a direct and simple way but of wrestling with a complex and frankly soulless computer. So yes, I agree with you.

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zakaria
zakaria Veteran Member • Posts: 4,628
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh

Historicity wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Historicity wrote:

So when I actually got a KP and used it long enough to get used to it, I decided I liked it after all and much more than I thought I could. Maybe some Olympus nostalgia was involved. In any case, I no longer have any objection to the KP form factor.

Lawrence

Lawrence,

In my opinion (and I tried many different cameras, though far less than you ), the Pentax KP is a fantastic camera, the best what Pentax's ever made!

I don't really think in those terms. I like most of my cameras. I didn't care for the K-7 all that much, and the D600 got oil stains on the sensor from a faulty shutter. Fortunately I have a son who thinks he can fix anything; so I just give all that stuff to him.

😂😂

All of them not only  your son .

The first Pentax camera I gave him was the K20d. I loved that camera, but I had the K5 by then and he made noises indicated that he really needed a Pentax camera, but sometime later I bought another K20d, and used it recently for some macro shooting and it did as well as the Nikon D200 or D300s.

Lawrence

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pentaxian .

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K0d Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh

The point most seem to be missing is a mirror pentaprism and full size focussing screen is never going to fit in a phone. Everything in camera form factors that is disappearing is turning into phone features. Phone with EVF no problem. They are going to be selling an experience not available on a phone.

Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,934
70 years of SLR development

DAVID MANZE wrote:

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

Well, I think this is what Mr from Ricoh was referring to. DSLRs are still needed because of the production of universally interchangeable lenses.

Al all SLR lenses are universally interchangeable.

70 years of SLR development cannot be thrown away; there are, literally, hundreds of millions of SLR lenses around, for all sorts of purposes and of thousands of optical characters, that can be adapted onto the modern short flange mirrorless cameras.

Not a single mirrorless-dedicated company nowadays (locked within own boundaries thanks to supershort flange) will ever match, or produce, or imagine, not even in one million years, the sheer amount of lenses produced by the SLR market collectively in the last 70 years.

There will always be something missing even in the "most complete mirrorless lineup".

That is what Mr from Ricoh was telling inadvertently, but the crowd did not pick up immediately, thinking that he must be delusional, like yours truly.

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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,934
Is it?

Heliar wrote:

'Trolling is a art', as the old Internet saying goes. And Zvonimir truly is an artisan.

Heliar, maybe you are a bit unfair.

Please read my 70 years of SLRs post below, that explains the hidden thought from the interview. I think many have missed that little caveat.

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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,934
Here is the result ...

Lothman wrote:

If you would follow your own word, skip all digital. Cut off your internet immediatedly, do not look on digital information on a computer monitor and do not use any optics which all the time distort reality.

Take a piece of paper and a pencil and draw the world like you like it best. This also would help your shoulder.

You are right.
The vision and ability should be somewhat tool independent, and to achieve that, we should try exercising in various mediums, including paper and pencil, a nib, a few tubes of paint, etc. Here are some examples ...

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Heliar Forum Member • Posts: 89
Re: 70 years of SLR development
3

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

DAVID MANZE wrote:

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

Well, I think this is what Mr from Ricoh was referring to. DSLRs are still needed because of the production of universally interchangeable lenses.

Al all SLR lenses are universally interchangeable.

That's right.

I don't get all those Pentaxians complaining about Ricoh's abysmally slow product release rate. Why don't they just buy a Canon EF lens or whatever? I, for example, simply love shooting with my 500mm Phase Fresnel Nikkor on my K-1.

*passes the joint to Mistral75*

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DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 5,595
Re: 70 years of SLR development

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

DAVID MANZE wrote:

It's so nice to see the quality of your "smoke" is way up there ........ enabling some of the most extravagant phantasmagorical delusions ever experienced by the human mind ......

........ you can always pop back to your own planet later!

Well, I think this is what Mr from Ricoh was referring to. DSLRs are still needed because of the production of universally interchangeable lenses.

Al all SLR lenses are universally interchangeable.

70 years of SLR development cannot be thrown away; there are, literally, hundreds of millions of SLR lenses around, for all sorts of purposes and of thousands of optical characters, that can be adapted onto the modern short flange mirrorless cameras.

Not a single mirrorless-dedicated company nowadays (locked within own boundaries thanks to supershort flange) will ever match, or produce, or imagine, not even in one million years, the sheer amount of lenses produced by the SLR market collectively in the last 70 years.

There will always be something missing even in the "most complete mirrorless lineup".

That is what Mr from Ricoh was telling inadvertently, but the crowd did not pick up immediately, thinking that he must be delusional, like yours truly.

Love your posts Zvonimir........we need more varied thinking as a crowd!

........however, as a business plan it's difficult to see money from these older pre-owned lenses.

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DAVID MANZE Veteran Member • Posts: 5,595
Re: Here is the result ...
2

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

You are right.
The vision and ability should be somewhat tool independent, and to achieve that, we should try exercising in various mediums, including paper and pencil, a nib, a few tubes of paint, etc. Here are some examples ...

Is that your work Zvonimir?

Love the second painting ...... if it's yours, you are a true artist!

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Kurgo Regular Member • Posts: 216
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh

K0d wrote:

The point most seem to be missing is a mirror pentaprism and full size focussing screen is never going to fit in a phone. Everything in camera form factors that is disappearing is turning into phone features. Phone with EVF no problem. They are going to be selling an experience not available on a phone.

Film photography is also not available on a phone. Just saying.

paul613
paul613 Senior Member • Posts: 1,886
Reminds me of Prince

Reminds me of the time n 2010 that Prince opined that the Internet is "completely over."

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Paul S. in Maryland
There are no solutions; only trade-offs.

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K0d Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh
1

Kurgo wrote:

K0d wrote:

The point most seem to be missing is a mirror pentaprism and full size focussing screen is never going to fit in a phone. Everything in camera form factors that is disappearing is turning into phone features. Phone with EVF no problem. They are going to be selling an experience not available on a phone.

Film photography is also not available on a phone. Just saying.

I think they see themselves as the SLR company in the same way Leica see themselves as the rangefinder company but even Leica can see that is not a profitable niche. The K1000 popularity with a younger generation is not a business model if they are no longer selling new. The digital Pentax SLR range still lacks a model that is iconic rather than just good value.

Richard Murdey
Richard Murdey Senior Member • Posts: 2,888
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh
5

Heliar wrote:

"Hiroki Sugahara: So the DSLR market is currently decreasing a little bit, but one year or two years or three years later, it will [begin] getting higher.

Dave Etchells: You think it will return, will start growing again.

Hiroki Sugahara: Yeah. Yes, yes."

This is one hell of an optimist perspective, I have to say.

Mirrorless is overrated. It's fine, it has distinct advantages for video, it's getting better every year, and it will eventually displace dSLRs completely outside of a tiny niche. But dSLRs, especially full frame dSLRs, are just fine for stills.

To give you a direct example: I have a D750, I could get a Z6. I won't because it would cost a ton of money and not do anything my D750 can't also do, and I happen to really like my D750 and the lenses I have for it. In terms of ergonomics it appeals way more than a Z6. And given a choice I'll pick an OVF. I'm not as tied to the OVF as Ricoh seems to imagine I might be, but I don't prefer an EVF either.

But here's the thing: Just because I'm comfortable with my D750/K1 does not mean the people using FF mirrorless today or starting to use those cameras in the future are likely to come back to dSLR. That just ain't gonna happen. The same ambivalence I have towards mirrorless cuts both ways: once someone makes the investment in a FF mirrorless system, gets comfortable with it, there's no reason for them to switch over to a dSLR.

Even granted that Pentax is a tiny niche brand that might get a disproportionately large boost from a few "returners", such unrealistic thinking from a high-level Ricoh exec is extremely troubling. I'm not saying they should jump on the mirrorless bandwagon, that would likely bankrupt them, but planning around some golden age bounce from disaffected mirrorless users is just plain irresponsible.

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 1,089
Re: Imaging Resource's CP+ interview with Ricoh

Heliar wrote:

Batdude wrote:

Whenever I see my subject thru the OVF I never see anything "beautiful" hahahaha! so that reason and explanation from Ricoh sucks. I don't buy it.

When you look through the OVF, you see the world, exactly as it is. If you never see anything 'beautiful' there, why bother taking pictures?

For me, the view from the OVF is an important thing in the picture taking process. I feel (and I'd like to emphasize this word, as it is definitely a subjective thing) that in this brief moment, with the camera up to my eye, the connection to the world as it really is, with no imposed 'translations' between me and the subject, enhances the impression of being a part of that world; not just witnessing as an observer, but also living through this exact moment I want to preserve.

It's also why I adore using manual focus lenses. It's a multisensory experience, both visual and tactile, and I simply love seeing the subject emerge from shifting planes of focus. It's almost a 'cinematic' thing in some way.

As a general remark, I feel like we're living through weird times in photography. People are very goal oriented and view the picture taking process as an obstacle. Camera is a necessary evil and a potential source of problems. Its first and only goal is to provide the best possible image file (or rather, a file that has not been ruined too much), measured solely by AF accuracy and resolving power of the lenses. The rest can be added/corrected in post, most of it automated. And then almost no one makes a print, because you cannot share a print through social media.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy weirdo that belongs to another planet, but I think something important is missing in all this.

Just my 2c

Cameras and lenses are grown man/woman’s toys. Each camera has its own appeal, and a different sensory experience. We are spoiled. If I want to make videos, or need the extra "richness" in image quality, I pick up my NX500; if I want to “detach” my self from the surroundings and observe the view through a lens and enjoy the ergonomics, I pick up my K-30. If I want fast AF with live view, or when its too dark to see clearly, I pick up my a58, and when I need to take selfies with my son, I pick my NX3300 (fixed with NX 20mm f/2.8). We are lucky to have more than one toy, and no matter how great a camera is, it will remain ONE toy for me. There is no camera that will satisfy my need for multiple toys. Consumerism personified!

Cheers,

Massao

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First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 1,089
Re: Fantastic news: Pentax as industry leader

Chris Mak wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

And what a title! No personal impressions yet, I still have to read it...

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/05/14/ricoh-interview-sub-frame-medium-format-dslr-coming-mirrorless-will-return

P.S. Soon we should also have DPR's interview... Alex

To my ears, this sounds like this: the manager obviously speaks about Pentax plans and intentions. His words convey a plan, so to speak, in which Pentax intends to lead the innovation in the DSLR field.

It will produce a wave of positive changes, follow-ups, and sincere imitations (by Pentax closest DSLR competitors Nikon and Canon), which will collectively shift the purchasing power of the market to reconsider the DSLRs once again.

"The last roar of the dinosaurs?" Yeah, "right".
This is fantastic. If the impact is stronger, it may persuade players like Sony, Panasonic, Fujifilm and others to rethink their mirrorless strategies, and invest in the DSLR designs.

I think you are not seeing this through fully. Pentax may not have spilled the beans yet, but they are actually planning a full return to film dslr cameras, and are preparing contracts with fuji and kodak to produce new revolutionary high end film types on a massive scale, so they will be ready when the photographic world realizes the mistake of going digital, and heads back on an equally massive scale to the film era. Digital dslr cameras, including mirrorless, will continue to exist, but merely as a conventional alternative for the very lazy shooters. The worldwide collapse of the photography market is in truth not at all related to the smart phone advent, but is a sign that a grand realization is taking place that digital photography is a big mistake, and people are dead wrong wasting their money on digital cameras and lenses optimized for digital, and are very wise to save up their money for the coming Pentax film revival landslide.....

Chris

Ok. Your joint beats Zvonimir Tosic's joint

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First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

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