Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

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John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 5,094
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

deednets wrote:

  • EVF on the X-Pro3 at least the same size as the A6400 (0.78x). Too much to ask??

Are you sure the a6400 has this?

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,823
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

What a useful contribution.

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,823
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,823
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

deednets wrote:

biza43 wrote:

deednets wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Sure, just use whatever works for you. No need to think too much about it. The Sony FE system is fantastic.

The selection of lenses makes me feel a bit dizzy though ... all over the place it seems to be. At least 5 different 85mm AF lenses to chose from???? A bit much for my liking to be honest.

Deed

It is quite simple though: G, GM, ZA, "cheaper", plus Zeiss Batis and Zeiss Loxia. Recently Sigma have joined the fray, by re-adapting their DSLR Art line to Sony FE.

Plus Otus, plus Samyang AF, often in both 1.4 and 1.8 options. 😎

Back in 2015, in my Sony A7II days, I had the Batis 85, fine lens, highly recommended. I remember getting this shot in an instant: the guy looked up to me, and I simply pointed the camera and took 1 single shot, relying on the AF. The whole thing was really fast and I bagged the shot.

As fine as the XF 56 lens is, the lens just AF too slow for this type of shooting. Now, the XF 90 is a different beast - lightning fast AF. Below is an example of a shot where I had precious little time to grab the photo.

I have no doubts that were eye-AF really important to me and to what I shoot, I would grab a Sony just for that; after all, it is not like they lack portrait lenses:)

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Bill Ferris
Bill Ferris Veteran Member • Posts: 3,936
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

deednets wrote:

I have used Fuji cameras since 2013 and currently have a few lenses across the board, except the "fast" zooms and the long stuff. As I often dabble with other systems I now use a "dark-side" camera, the SONY A7III alongside the X-T2.

So where from here?? When I started using the A7III for portraits, I knew that there was no going back - for this type of photography - wide open with less than erratic results. I don't care whether it is my lack of knowledge, Chris Dodkin suggested I should buy a book on photography - and got plenty of thumbs up(s) which led me to believe that I am simply not good enough to use Fuji gear confidently: Putting a little square over somebody's eye a science exercise I failed to master, sadly.

Sony clearly has some juju going on with their eye AF. I've not used it but have seen and read enough comments by dedicated Nikon, Canon, Fuji and other brand photographers to take them at their word that this feature is impressive. Even Nikon - a company that almost never unlocks major upgrades through firmware updates - has unlocked workable eye AF in their mirrorless bodies.

Anyway, it seems to me that a photographer who tries a new camera and stays with it for functionality that has a significant positive impact on their photography, is just acting rationally.

In short: if it is the gear you cannot manage, try something else. And I did. It works better for me, but I will keep an eye on the next X-ProX camera. Will use the X-T2 in the meantime for shoots where the eye is less of an issue. Silly really how one can get sucked into something that all of a sudden appears to be a great leap forward. (And I DO remember those early days with auto-focus where people suggested that this wasn't necessary, good technique was all that was needed (same goes for light meters by the way, my first 3 cameras didn't have light meters built in!)).

During the late-1980s through mid-1990s, Canon leveraged significantly better AF to overtake Nikon as the top-selling camera manufacturer in the world. Eye AF that's just better than everybody else's, is a feature Sony could leverage to significantly increase market share. IMO, they need more lenses and especially more quality glass priced within reach of the enthusiast.

Here is a shot I took just the other day to try out the eye AF on the A7III (I am sure most posters here won't be interested, but here is a little challenge for Fuji - which is a good thing right?? The somewhat horrible new here for me at least is that ALL shots I took were in focus, regardless of who, when and where. Sadly I simply didn't get the same results from the X-T3 - which I liked, by the way!

A7III 85/1.8 F1.8 (APS-C 1.18 equiv)

A7III 85/1.8 F2.8 ( APS-C 1.83 equiv)

Equivalents = FF/1.53=APS-C (Fuji)

I'm curious, of the missed focus shots with the X-T3, roughly how many were compositions with good facial expressions that would've been keepers but for the missed focus?

Since SONY land is far from "just" glory (EVF not a match for the X-T2/3, UI, colours, homogeneous lens-landscape, size, shutter speeds(A7III limited to 1/8000s-30s)) there are a few things that I would want to be sorted before I would commit to another "new" Fuji body (possibly the X-Pro3):

  • Eye AF would be cool to be somewhat near the SONY
  • EVF on the X-Pro3 at least the same size as the A6400 (0.78x). Too much to ask??
  • Either an external EVF or a tilt screen with tap-to-shoot touch.
  • A new 56/1.2 to match the camera speed re AF
  • The 35/1.4 although slow I don't have an issue with
  • X-Trans I like!

That's about it.

I also had the opportunity to try the latest Panasonic FF, that felt VERY confident and fast - but not for me. Nice handling though.

So as it stands I am now in 3-camera land again, not exactly a new scenario for me, but that's what it is.

For now.

Deed

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Contributing Member • Posts: 554
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

deednets wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Where did I say that I left? Whatever that means. I simply added a tool for a particular purpose like I use the RX1RII for certain scenarios.

I never said you did, for ME, it reads like that. I honestly don't even see a reason to even post a topic like this. Then again, I don't know why I even commented on it! So I guess after having a Fuji kit, getting a Z6 with 2 primes, upgrading to a X-H1, I guess I'm back where I started.

So in short, Fujifilm is in a great position. It's arguably the Best APS-C system out there with a great lens selection. If you need eye detection you can go with a X-T3, or step up to full frame, like you've done.

So vs the rest, Fuji is fine. They've carved a nice spot in systems today.

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OP deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,594
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

John Gellings wrote:

deednets wrote:

  • EVF on the X-Pro3 at least the same size as the A6400 (0.78x). Too much to ask??

Are you sure the a6400 has this?

Sorry: The A6400 has 0.71 magnification! The X-E3 has 0.62, the X-Pro2 0.59. The new X-T3 has 0.75. The X-T3 therefore sits somewhere in between the A6400 and the X-T2.

I would consider 0.78 versus the actual 0.71 substantial, but better than the 0.59 on the X-Pro2.

So I was wrong about the 0.78 ... sorry.

Deed

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OP deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,594
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
2

MrALLCAPS wrote:

deednets wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Where did I say that I left? Whatever that means. I simply added a tool for a particular purpose like I use the RX1RII for certain scenarios.

I never said you did, for ME, it reads like that. I honestly don't even see a reason to even post a topic like this. Then again, I don't know why I even commented on it! So I guess after having a Fuji kit, getting a Z6 with 2 primes, upgrading to a X-H1, I guess I'm back where I started.

So in short, Fujifilm is in a great position. It's arguably the Best APS-C system out there with a great lens selection. If you need eye detection you can go with a X-T3, or step up to full frame, like you've done.

So vs the rest, Fuji is fine. They've carved a nice spot in systems today.

I DID go with the X-T3, but found it erratic at best. I had simply hoped for better.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62627214

Regarding why people would start posting their experience with gear on a gear forum?

No idea ...

Deed

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OP deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,594
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

Bill Ferris wrote:

deednets wrote:

I have used Fuji cameras since 2013 and currently have a few lenses across the board, except the "fast" zooms and the long stuff. As I often dabble with other systems I now use a "dark-side" camera, the SONY A7III alongside the X-T2.

So where from here?? When I started using the A7III for portraits, I knew that there was no going back - for this type of photography - wide open with less than erratic results. I don't care whether it is my lack of knowledge, Chris Dodkin suggested I should buy a book on photography - and got plenty of thumbs up(s) which led me to believe that I am simply not good enough to use Fuji gear confidently: Putting a little square over somebody's eye a science exercise I failed to master, sadly.

Sony clearly has some juju going on with their eye AF. I've not used it but have seen and read enough comments by dedicated Nikon, Canon, Fuji and other brand photographers to take them at their word that this feature is impressive. Even Nikon - a company that almost never unlocks major upgrades through firmware updates - has unlocked workable eye AF in their mirrorless bodies.

Anyway, it seems to me that a photographer who tries a new camera and stays with it for functionality that has a significant positive impact on their photography, is just acting rationally.

In short: if it is the gear you cannot manage, try something else. And I did. It works better for me, but I will keep an eye on the next X-ProX camera. Will use the X-T2 in the meantime for shoots where the eye is less of an issue. Silly really how one can get sucked into something that all of a sudden appears to be a great leap forward. (And I DO remember those early days with auto-focus where people suggested that this wasn't necessary, good technique was all that was needed (same goes for light meters by the way, my first 3 cameras didn't have light meters built in!)).

During the late-1980s through mid-1990s, Canon leveraged significantly better AF to overtake Nikon as the top-selling camera manufacturer in the world. Eye AF that's just better than everybody else's, is a feature Sony could leverage to significantly increase market share. IMO, they need more lenses and especially more quality glass priced within reach of the enthusiast.

Here is a shot I took just the other day to try out the eye AF on the A7III (I am sure most posters here won't be interested, but here is a little challenge for Fuji - which is a good thing right?? The somewhat horrible new here for me at least is that ALL shots I took were in focus, regardless of who, when and where. Sadly I simply didn't get the same results from the X-T3 - which I liked, by the way!

A7III 85/1.8 F1.8 (APS-C 1.18 equiv)

A7III 85/1.8 F2.8 ( APS-C 1.83 equiv)

Equivalents = FF/1.53=APS-C (Fuji)

I'm curious, of the missed focus shots with the X-T3, roughly how many were compositions with good facial expressions that would've been keepers but for the missed focus?

SONY now has extensive glass for FF, 5 or so lenses within the 85mm bracket, plenty of F4 zooms, excruciatingly expensive F2.8 lenses - but also cheaper ones like the 85/1.8 I used for those shots posted here.

As you might or might not know, I travel extensively and I often shoot in remote areas where one or 2 "attempts" to get things right are the maximum. An effortless system would work where you didn't have to wonder whether or not a shot would look ok when viewed on a larger screen. This can be frustrating as in my case it often enough works, but also doesn't. The erraticness - if there is such a word -  is what I find frustrating. On my last trip I almost exclusively used the RX1RII - a what, 2015/16 point and shoot - for my portraits as the focusing system simply worked more reliably:

How many seconds do you think I had to take that shot??

I typically don't keep oof images but kept those here as at a regular viewing distance the shot was still ok. But could have been better.

I don't have a problem using different tools for different jobs by the way, so this is far from being a serious problem.

Deed

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Contributing Member • Posts: 554
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

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OP deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,594
You wanna re-evaluate what "sounds like" actually means?
3

MrALLCAPS wrote:

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Well, if we would go by what somebody "sounds like" how do you think you come cross?

2 expressions of opinion here regarding your posts/photography:

  • You come across as aggressive. Just my opinion expressed here and would assume that's ok with you?
  • Your photos I had a look at on your flickr account and find them often out of focus. "head turns", "Garment Dist. Grind", "Life is on" ... etc. take your pick. Some pics are in focus some aren't, which was exactly my point!

But looking at your pics I now understand where you are coming from.

Will leave it at that as I cannot see us debating anything on a level playing field as you tend to read way too much into what wasn't there in the first place.

I will put you on my ignore list as I have a life, so feel free to respond, but I certainly won't be reading it. Time is short you know??

All the best!

Deed

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Contributing Member • Posts: 554
Re: You wanna re-evaluate what "sounds like" actually means?

deednets wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Well, if we would go by what somebody "sounds like" how do you think you come cross?

2 expressions of opinion here regarding your posts/photography:

  • You come across as aggressive. Just my opinion expressed here and would assume that's ok with you?
  • Your photos I had a look at on your flickr account and find them often out of focus. "head turns", "Garment Dist. Grind", "Life is on" ... etc. take your pick. Some pics are in focus some aren't, which was exactly my point!

But looking at your pics I now understand where you are coming from.

Will leave it at that as I cannot see us debating anything on a level playing field as you tend to read way too much into what wasn't there in the first place.

I will put you on my ignore list as I have a life, so feel free to respond, but I certainly won't be reading it. Time is short you know??

All the best!

Deed

I come across "aggressive"? Wow. Lets not try to play victim here. Lets cal it what it really is, to the point.

I shoot mostly Street Photography, where it doesnt need to be "tact sharp", in focus or the need for "eye af" what you need in a camera is different than what I need. It's just that I didnt have to broadcast a systems feature and why.

And Ignore list?

Thank You!

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Batdude
Batdude Senior Member • Posts: 3,976
Re: You wanna re-evaluate what "sounds like" actually means?
2

MrALLCAPS wrote:

deednets wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Well, if we would go by what somebody "sounds like" how do you think you come cross?

2 expressions of opinion here regarding your posts/photography:

  • You come across as aggressive. Just my opinion expressed here and would assume that's ok with you?
  • Your photos I had a look at on your flickr account and find them often out of focus. "head turns", "Garment Dist. Grind", "Life is on" ... etc. take your pick. Some pics are in focus some aren't, which was exactly my point!

But looking at your pics I now understand where you are coming from.

Will leave it at that as I cannot see us debating anything on a level playing field as you tend to read way too much into what wasn't there in the first place.

I will put you on my ignore list as I have a life, so feel free to respond, but I certainly won't be reading it. Time is short you know??

All the best!

Deed

I come across "aggressive"? Wow. Lets not try to play victim here. Lets cal it what it really is, to the point.

I shoot mostly Street Photography, where it doesnt need to be "tact sharp", in focus or the need for "eye af" what you need in a camera is different than what I need. It's just that I didnt have to broadcast a systems feature and why.

And Ignore list?

Thank You!

I don’t think I need that kind of accurate type of AF at this point in time and I don’t shoot in AF-C either but maybe some day I will.  Having said that Sony did raise the bar and everyone else is trying to keep up with that caliber of AF. My point? Some day soon or eventually Fuji will also have this kind of AF capability in their bodies.

This is a gear forum and not everyone shoots with only one brand and I think that’s cool and I like to learn what photographers are doing, is always cool to learn and I think is all good.

You guys should just calm down and try to have a good sense of humor about all this, and no need to get personal, over a piece of machine 😁

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,823
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

MrALLCAPS wrote:

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

So when you wrote "I left for Sony bla bla bla" what did you mean????

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

So you made a wrong interpretation and wrong assumptions. Based on nothing but hot air.

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

No, not really. You base your opinions on things that you fabricate on your mind, not on what the OP factually wrote.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Good for you. Others need more suitable tools for their purpose.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Contributing Member • Posts: 554
Re: Where from here: Fuji versus the rest
1

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

biza43 wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

getochkn wrote:

TLDR; The OP bought a XT3, couldn't get a sharp eye in focus out of 10000000000 photos, bought a Sony instead, and still has to post about it again in yet another thread they started.

Yeah... Maybe the OP should've called this post, "I left for Sony because of eye AF and you should too!" -at least that's how it sounds to me..

Point 1 - he did not leave Fuji.

Didn't say that he did, did I??

So when you wrote "I left for Sony bla bla bla" what did you mean????

Point 2 - he did not say that others should follow in his steps.

Ditto. I just said, "that's how it sounds to me".

So you made a wrong interpretation and wrong assumptions. Based on nothing but hot air.

Point 3 - you seem to have a comprehension/reading/understanding issue.

I think you're the one with that issue. See above.

No, not really. You base your opinions on things that you fabricate on your mind, not on what the OP factually wrote.

Hey, if it works for him, great. Thankfully I don't need, nor have to rely on my photography needing "both" eyes in focus. Even if I did, I'd use anything on this planet, except a Sony.

You would be not using the best eye-AF currently available.

I can live with that. Don't need it and what I do need, I have and very pleased with.

Good for you. Others need more suitable tools for their purpose.

Maybe I should update my Z6 for that feature, but I just brought a X-H1 with the grip deal, so that can wait.

Thank goodness for having my own opinion and not being part of the hive mind.

That's what drew from it. You can respect my ooinion or not. That what I got from it, so to me, Thats all that matters

Now I won't add to this topic any further, it's pointless and I said my piece so mission accomplished. I hope he enjoys his eye af

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