GR lll Review

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
illd3fined Regular Member • Posts: 446
Re: Color of GR3 RAW
2

James Bligh wrote:

Remember this too. There is a huge difference between 'in any meaningful way to me' and 'in any way'. The former has two conditions attached; those are 'meaningful' and 'you'.

this applies to you just as much as anybody

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Sony RX100 II Ricoh GR III Apple iPhone XS
Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,937
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

James Bligh wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I think color issue at least in JPEG is established in dpreview GR3 review though color desaturation in RAW as ISO climbs up is not adequately addressed.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricoh-gr-iii/5

There's no unusual color desaturation as ISO climbs up. On the contrary, the GR III is quite good at keeping the color.

Alex

Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW

Here is a sample at ISO 800 but color desaturation in RAW is noted even in base ISO or from ISO 200. It is subtle but it is there.

Hi James

Trying to compare color saturation in raw you are suggesting to compare how a converter interprets data, and that differs between the cameras. The field is not even this way.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=ricoh_griii&attr13_1=nikon_d7200&attr13_2=nikon_d610&attr13_3=nikon_d800&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=800&attr16_1=800&attr16_2=800&attr16_3=800&normalization=full&widget=673&x=0.3425143380301338&y=0.23260128517394898

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teemodk Senior Member • Posts: 1,237
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

Iliah Borg wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I think color issue at least in JPEG is established in dpreview GR3 review though color desaturation in RAW as ISO climbs up is not adequately addressed.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricoh-gr-iii/5

There's no unusual color desaturation as ISO climbs up. On the contrary, the GR III is quite good at keeping the color.

Alex

Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW

Here is a sample at ISO 800 but color desaturation in RAW is noted even in base ISO or from ISO 200. It is subtle but it is there.

Hi James

Trying to compare color saturation in raw you are suggesting to compare how a converter interprets data, and that differs between the cameras. The field is not even this way.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=ricoh_griii&attr13_1=nikon_d7200&attr13_2=nikon_d610&attr13_3=nikon_d800&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=800&attr16_1=800&attr16_2=800&attr16_3=800&normalization=full&widget=673&x=0.3425143380301338&y=0.23260128517394898

What is more interesting, is how are the colors as you go up in ISO. Here is the RAW data from the Cyan field (approx. 90% of the cyan averaged). Darktable import with only simple fast PPG demosaic, no base curve, tone curve or filters applied.

CYAN:
ISO  R    G     B
100 37 104 125
200 38 104 125
400 38 105 126
800 39 107 128
1600 42 113 135
3200 39 108 130
6400 40 114 137
12800 30 114 136

Interesting, but this doesn't mean much itself. What does mean something is the output you get after all filters and curves are applied. All below are processed with the exact same curve and filtering using the dpr raw files:

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Oppo R7 Plus
TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,262
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

James Bligh wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I think color issue at least in JPEG is established in dpreview GR3 review though color desaturation in RAW as ISO climbs up is not adequately addressed.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricoh-gr-iii/5

There's no unusual color desaturation as ISO climbs up. On the contrary, the GR III is quite good at keeping the color.

Alex

Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW

Here is a sample at ISO 800 but color desaturation in RAW is noted even in base ISO or from ISO 200. It is subtle but it is there.

You've got this wrong. All you are seeing in that link is Adobe's colour conversion settings for each of those cameras.

Here is a link to the same sample but including the Pentax K70, which has the same GR III sensor and the same accelerator unit for noise reduction in raw. Strangely it doesn't have the colour desaturation that you claim must be there. That's because it's not the camera, it's Adobe.

If you want to establish the point that you are so desperate to make (over and over, thread after thread), you need to find a more objective piece of evidence. Good luck, but until then, let it go.

 TN Args's gear list:TN Args's gear list
Sigma dp0 Quattro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M5 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH +7 more
thelps
thelps Regular Member • Posts: 485
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

John Gellings wrote:

What you're describing is basically the Loch Ness monster - you say it's there but it just can't be seen.

The truth may be we differ in interpretation of fact. The fact is standing like a mountain. When you are blindfolded of course you cannot see whatever there is.

Curiously, when you are blindfolded you might see what isn't there.

I wear glasses not a blindfold. Isn’t it a paranoia to worry about something which is not real?

I honestly don't care what it is, but your anti-GR III tirade is tiresome. I'm here to learn about a still unfamiliar brand, not to hear about imaginary faults of my camera.

Alex

I’m not sure how I can even use this camera anymore ... I mean, it’s got so many problems that non users have Found that us users haven’t. Let’s hear it for the non users everyone!

Some of the anti-GR III has got to the point of being zealotry. Its beyond the pale. The simple answer is, if the camera is not to someone's standards don't buy it but leave those to who are happy with the GR III, to make imagery that suits us. I love the output from mine using the local light that I experience. Yes the light is different the world over

The camera makes fine images. This forum will get sick of hearing me say it but I fear some here have monitors are not up to task and arguments ensue because we are all not seeing the same thing.

Simply the GR III has no substantial IQ flaw even worth worrying about. Even if I were to be convinced it did, which I am not, the flaws described here are so insignificant in a final print as to be non-existent.

 thelps's gear list:thelps's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR
James Bligh Senior Member • Posts: 2,354
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

TN Args wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I think color issue at least in JPEG is established in dpreview GR3 review though color desaturation in RAW as ISO climbs up is not adequately addressed.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricoh-gr-iii/5

There's no unusual color desaturation as ISO climbs up. On the contrary, the GR III is quite good at keeping the color.

Alex

Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW

Here is a sample at ISO 800 but color desaturation in RAW is noted even in base ISO or from ISO 200. It is subtle but it is there.

You've got this wrong. All you are seeing in that link is Adobe's colour conversion settings for each of those cameras.

Here is a linkto the same sample but including the Pentax K70, which has the same GR III sensor and the same accelerator unit for noise reduction in raw. Strangely it doesn't have the colour desaturation that you claim must be there. That's because it's not the camera, it's Adobe.

Whatever it may be I do not care. I say what I see.

Very similar but more muted color, see the blue, in GR3 than in K-70.

Pentax colors are muted when Nikon colors are vibrant. And Nikon images are crisper.

If you want to establish the point that you are so desperate to make (over and over, thread after thread), you need to find a more objective piece of evidence. Good luck, but until then, let it go.

Let's wait and see. I am looking forward reading GR3 review in Imaging Resource.

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You really want you a pound of flesh, don't you?
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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,262
Re: Color of GR3 RAW
4

James Bligh wrote:

TN Args wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I think color issue at least in JPEG is established in dpreview GR3 review though color desaturation in RAW as ISO climbs up is not adequately addressed.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricoh-gr-iii/5

There's no unusual color desaturation as ISO climbs up. On the contrary, the GR III is quite good at keeping the color.

Alex

Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW

Here is a sample at ISO 800 but color desaturation in RAW is noted even in base ISO or from ISO 200. It is subtle but it is there.

You've got this wrong. All you are seeing in that link is Adobe's colour conversion settings for each of those cameras.

Here is a linkto the same sample but including the Pentax K70, which has the same GR III sensor and the same accelerator unit for noise reduction in raw. Strangely it doesn't have the colour desaturation that you claim must be there. That's because it's not the camera, it's Adobe.

Whatever it may be I do not care. I say what I see.

Look at the wrong evidence and you will 'see' the wrong things and draw wrong conclusions.

Very similar but more muted color, see the blue, in GR3 than in K-70.

Pentax colors are muted when Nikon colors are vibrant. And Nikon images are crisper.

If you want to establish the point that you are so desperate to make (over and over, thread after thread), you need to find a more objective piece of evidence. Good luck, but until then, let it go.

Let's wait and see. I am looking forward reading GR3 review in Imaging Resource.

I think several people have explained your mistake to you in the comments above, so it's time to make the smart move and back down. Not seeing it yet though.

 TN Args's gear list:TN Args's gear list
Sigma dp0 Quattro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M5 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH +7 more
James Bligh Senior Member • Posts: 2,354
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

thelps wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

What you're describing is basically the Loch Ness monster - you say it's there but it just can't be seen.

The truth may be we differ in interpretation of fact. The fact is standing like a mountain. When you are blindfolded of course you cannot see whatever there is.

Curiously, when you are blindfolded you might see what isn't there.

I wear glasses not a blindfold. Isn’t it a paranoia to worry about something which is not real?

I honestly don't care what it is, but your anti-GR III tirade is tiresome. I'm here to learn about a still unfamiliar brand, not to hear about imaginary faults of my camera.

Alex

I’m not sure how I can even use this camera anymore ... I mean, it’s got so many problems that non users have Found that us users haven’t. Let’s hear it for the non users everyone!

Some of the anti-GR III has got to the point of being zealotry. Its beyond the pale. The simple answer is, if the camera is not to someone's standards don't buy it but leave those to who are happy with the GR III, to make imagery that suits us. I love the output from mine using the local light that I experience. Yes the light is different the world over

Harold who had bought more than one copy of GR2 as backup must be a lunatic. Whatever he may be his decision looks increasingly relevant.

P.S.: We have to acknowledge GR3 is a different animal.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62681591

Another limitation in GR3 plus not offering 4:3 aspect ratio in GR3.

The camera makes fine images. This forum will get sick of hearing me say it but I fear some here have monitors are not up to task and arguments ensue because we are all not seeing the same thing.

Simply the GR III has no substantial IQ flaw even worth worrying about. Even if I were to be convinced it did, which I am not, the flaws described here are so insignificant in a final print as to be non-existent.

Maybe dpreview is equipped with some low-grade monitors when they reported issues in jpeg colors of GR3.

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You really want you a pound of flesh, don't you?
-- Mallory to Miller in the movie 'The Guns of Navarone'

thelps
thelps Regular Member • Posts: 485
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

James Bligh wrote:

thelps wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

What you're describing is basically the Loch Ness monster - you say it's there but it just can't be seen.

The truth may be we differ in interpretation of fact. The fact is standing like a mountain. When you are blindfolded of course you cannot see whatever there is.

Curiously, when you are blindfolded you might see what isn't there.

I wear glasses not a blindfold. Isn’t it a paranoia to worry about something which is not real?

I honestly don't care what it is, but your anti-GR III tirade is tiresome. I'm here to learn about a still unfamiliar brand, not to hear about imaginary faults of my camera.

Alex

I’m not sure how I can even use this camera anymore ... I mean, it’s got so many problems that non users have Found that us users haven’t. Let’s hear it for the non users everyone!

Some of the anti-GR III has got to the point of being zealotry. Its beyond the pale. The simple answer is, if the camera is not to someone's standards don't buy it but leave those to who are happy with the GR III, to make imagery that suits us. I love the output from mine using the local light that I experience. Yes the light is different the world over

Harold who had bought more than one copy of GR2 as backup must be a lunatic. Whatever he may be his decision looks increasingly relevant.

P.S.: We have to acknowledge GR3 is a different animal.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62681591

Another limitation in GR3 plus not offering 4:3 aspect ratio in GR3.

The camera makes fine images. This forum will get sick of hearing me say it but I fear some here have monitors are not up to task and arguments ensue because we are all not seeing the same thing.

Simply the GR III has no substantial IQ flaw even worth worrying about. Even if I were to be convinced it did, which I am not, the flaws described here are so insignificant in a final print as to be non-existent.

Maybe dpreview is equipped with some low-grade monitors when they reported issues in jpeg colors of GR3.

Highly likely. I learned that its important to research and buy a good photo monitor. The one I recently got at my work, still not the best out there but it is 4K, 28" and 10 bit.

I have seen many many laptop screens and nothing comes close to even this cheapie 4K but modern colour tech LCD. The nuances I can now see is amazing, I understand better the colour effect modes offered by Fuji and Ricoh jpgs and I see the difference the MF digital offers. Its astounding.

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Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR
James Bligh Senior Member • Posts: 2,354
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

thelps wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

thelps wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

What you're describing is basically the Loch Ness monster - you say it's there but it just can't be seen.

The truth may be we differ in interpretation of fact. The fact is standing like a mountain. When you are blindfolded of course you cannot see whatever there is.

Curiously, when you are blindfolded you might see what isn't there.

I wear glasses not a blindfold. Isn’t it a paranoia to worry about something which is not real?

I honestly don't care what it is, but your anti-GR III tirade is tiresome. I'm here to learn about a still unfamiliar brand, not to hear about imaginary faults of my camera.

Alex

I’m not sure how I can even use this camera anymore ... I mean, it’s got so many problems that non users have Found that us users haven’t. Let’s hear it for the non users everyone!

Some of the anti-GR III has got to the point of being zealotry. Its beyond the pale. The simple answer is, if the camera is not to someone's standards don't buy it but leave those to who are happy with the GR III, to make imagery that suits us. I love the output from mine using the local light that I experience. Yes the light is different the world over

Harold who had bought more than one copy of GR2 as backup must be a lunatic. Whatever he may be his decision looks increasingly relevant.

P.S.: We have to acknowledge GR3 is a different animal.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62681591

Another limitation in GR3 plus not offering 4:3 aspect ratio in GR3.

The camera makes fine images. This forum will get sick of hearing me say it but I fear some here have monitors are not up to task and arguments ensue because we are all not seeing the same thing.

Simply the GR III has no substantial IQ flaw even worth worrying about. Even if I were to be convinced it did, which I am not, the flaws described here are so insignificant in a final print as to be non-existent.

Maybe dpreview is equipped with some low-grade monitors when they reported issues in jpeg colors of GR3.

Highly likely.

If you are right then not only the credibility of dpreview review is in jeopardy but also dpreview may be charged with feeding false information and misleading people. I am afraid this is a serious allegation. But as it looks you are convinced with your assertion why not, no you should, make an inquiry to dpreview and let us know what you have found out before dpreview makes you legally responsible? This is not a laughable matter. You’d better clear up the air.

I learned that its important to research and buy a good photo monitor. The one I recently got at my work, still not the best out there but it is 4K, 28" and 10 bit.

I have seen many many laptop screens and nothing comes close to even this cheapie 4K but modern colour tech LCD. The nuances I can now see is amazing, I understand better the colour effect modes offered by Fuji and Ricoh jpgs and I see the difference the MF digital offers. Its astounding.

-- hide signature --

You really want you a pound of flesh, don't you?
-- Mallory to Miller in the movie 'The Guns of Navarone'

thelps
thelps Regular Member • Posts: 485
Re: Color of GR3 RAW
1

James Bligh wrote:

thelps wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

thelps wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

What you're describing is basically the Loch Ness monster - you say it's there but it just can't be seen.

The truth may be we differ in interpretation of fact. The fact is standing like a mountain. When you are blindfolded of course you cannot see whatever there is.

Curiously, when you are blindfolded you might see what isn't there.

I wear glasses not a blindfold. Isn’t it a paranoia to worry about something which is not real?

I honestly don't care what it is, but your anti-GR III tirade is tiresome. I'm here to learn about a still unfamiliar brand, not to hear about imaginary faults of my camera.

Alex

I’m not sure how I can even use this camera anymore ... I mean, it’s got so many problems that non users have Found that us users haven’t. Let’s hear it for the non users everyone!

Some of the anti-GR III has got to the point of being zealotry. Its beyond the pale. The simple answer is, if the camera is not to someone's standards don't buy it but leave those to who are happy with the GR III, to make imagery that suits us. I love the output from mine using the local light that I experience. Yes the light is different the world over

Harold who had bought more than one copy of GR2 as backup must be a lunatic. Whatever he may be his decision looks increasingly relevant.

P.S.: We have to acknowledge GR3 is a different animal.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62681591

Another limitation in GR3 plus not offering 4:3 aspect ratio in GR3.

The camera makes fine images. This forum will get sick of hearing me say it but I fear some here have monitors are not up to task and arguments ensue because we are all not seeing the same thing.

Simply the GR III has no substantial IQ flaw even worth worrying about. Even if I were to be convinced it did, which I am not, the flaws described here are so insignificant in a final print as to be non-existent.

Maybe dpreview is equipped with some low-grade monitors when they reported issues in jpeg colors of GR3.

Highly likely.

If you are right then not only the credibility of dpreview review is in jeopardy but also dpreview may be charged with feeding false information and misleading people. I am afraid this is a serious allegation. But as it looks you are convinced with your assertion why not, no you should, make an inquiry to dpreview and let us know what you have found out before dpreview makes you legally responsible? This is not a laughable matter. You’d better clear up the air.

I retract my statement, I misread your meaning, its highly likely they have good monitors. I can imagine they use the best photo screens that are available.

Now, you have made statements about Ricoh GR III IQ, are you also ready to take legal responsibility for mis-information about Ricoh product ? No laughable matter. You'd better clear up the air.

I learned that its important to research and buy a good photo monitor. The one I recently got at my work, still not the best out there but it is 4K, 28" and 10 bit.

I have seen many many laptop screens and nothing comes close to even this cheapie 4K but modern colour tech LCD. The nuances I can now see is amazing, I understand better the colour effect modes offered by Fuji and Ricoh jpgs and I see the difference the MF digital offers. Its astounding.

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Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR
Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,069
Re: Color of GR3 RAW

teemodk wrote:

Another issue to note with the dpr comparison it's the very dark processing of the GRIII files. Mostly due to the missing vignetting correction, but generalize I think the images are too dark.

I made a quick profile for darktable and like what I so far. It's by no means perfect, but shows good potential.

I'm surprised at how muted the ACR processing is - at first I thought it's the settings DPR is using, but nope, they're like that by default.

Alex

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Ricoh GR III Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +8 more
Olifaunt Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: Color of GR3 RAW
6

James Bligh wrote:

Whatever it may be I do not care. I say what I see.

Very similar but more muted color, see the blue, in GR3 than in K-70.

Pentax colors are muted when Nikon colors are vibrant. And Nikon images are crisper.

James, you are trolling. Multiple people have patiently explained color profiles to you. The GR doesn't have "a" color, muted or not. Neither does any other digital camera including Nikon. There is no way you can't understand this, but you just refuse to admit it. This is where you should maybe just go to hell.

Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,299
Re: WHY ?
1

Olifaunt wrote:

This is where you should maybe just go to hell.

Really ? can you tell us WHY you felt the need to add this last sentence ?

it is irrelevant , inflammatory and counterproductive 

I disagree with most of the James Bligh posts but resorting to personal invective and insults does not help anyone

Harold

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Sigma DP2 Merrill Ricoh GR Ricoh GR II Olympus E-M5 II Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 +8 more
teemodk Senior Member • Posts: 1,237
Re: WHY ?
1

Harold66 wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

This is where you should maybe just go to hell.

Really ? can you tell us WHY you felt the need to add this last sentence ?

it is irrelevant , inflammatory and counterproductive

I disagree with most of the James Bligh posts but resorting to personal invective and insults does not help anyone

Harold

Probably just came straight from the heart. I prefer that over all the trolling polluting this forum.

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Oppo R7 Plus
Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,937
Looking the right way
4

James Bligh wrote:

I say what I see.

You are looking through wrong glasses.

There is no evidence of progressing colour desaturation in raw as ISO climbs up.

Here is Ricoh GRIII at ISO 100 vs. Ricoh GRIII at ISO 6400, compared from raw data. Colorimetrically there is no difference:

Changing to dE00 or using a shot at ISO 12800 is is easy to see that due to lower exposure on the 6400 shot the difference is due to noise, flare, and glare.

CGATS files http://s3.amazonaws.com/IliahBorg/Ricoh%20GRIII%20CC24%20CGATS.zip were obtained with RawDigger from the DPReview Studio Scene using linear normalization for the white patch to be 242 RGB, linear white balance from B4 patch (the one to the right of the white patch), output gamma 2.2.

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,262
Re: Looking the right way

Iliah Borg wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I say what I see.

You are looking through wrong glasses.

There is no evidence of progressing colour desaturation in raw as ISO climbs up.

Here is Ricoh GRIII at ISO 100 vs. Ricoh GRIII at ISO 6400, compared from raw data. Colorimetrically there is no difference:

Changing to dE00 or using a shot at ISO 12800 is is easy to see that due to lower exposure on the 6400 shot the difference is due to noise, flare, and glare.

CGATS files http://s3.amazonaws.com/IliahBorg/Ricoh%20GRIII%20CC24%20CGATS.zip were obtained with RawDigger from the DPReview Studio Scene using linear normalization for the white patch to be 242 RGB, linear white balance from B4 patch (the one to the right of the white patch), output gamma 2.2.

Still waiting for some sort of admission of error from Mr Bligh.

 TN Args's gear list:TN Args's gear list
Sigma dp0 Quattro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M5 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH +7 more
Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,069
Re: Looking the right way

TN Args wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I say what I see.

You are looking through wrong glasses.

There is no evidence of progressing colour desaturation in raw as ISO climbs up.

Here is Ricoh GRIII at ISO 100 vs. Ricoh GRIII at ISO 6400, compared from raw data. Colorimetrically there is no difference:

Changing to dE00 or using a shot at ISO 12800 is is easy to see that due to lower exposure on the 6400 shot the difference is due to noise, flare, and glare.

CGATS files http://s3.amazonaws.com/IliahBorg/Ricoh%20GRIII%20CC24%20CGATS.zip were obtained with RawDigger from the DPReview Studio Scene using linear normalization for the white patch to be 242 RGB, linear white balance from B4 patch (the one to the right of the white patch), output gamma 2.2.

Still waiting for some sort of admission of error from Mr Bligh.

I don't think you'll see any.

At some point he started talking about "Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW"; he only have to claim that RAWs are dulled <rolling eyes> uniformly at all ISOs (by what? Applying same amount of NR from ISO100 to 12800+?).

It doesn't matter it's just Adobe's interpretation.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Ricoh GR III Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +8 more
Iliah Borg Forum Pro • Posts: 25,937
Re: Looking the right way
2

Alex Sarbu wrote:

TN Args wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

James Bligh wrote:

I say what I see.

You are looking through wrong glasses.

There is no evidence of progressing colour desaturation in raw as ISO climbs up.

Here is Ricoh GRIII at ISO 100 vs. Ricoh GRIII at ISO 6400, compared from raw data. Colorimetrically there is no difference:

Changing to dE00 or using a shot at ISO 12800 is is easy to see that due to lower exposure on the 6400 shot the difference is due to noise, flare, and glare.

CGATS files http://s3.amazonaws.com/IliahBorg/Ricoh%20GRIII%20CC24%20CGATS.zip were obtained with RawDigger from the DPReview Studio Scene using linear normalization for the white patch to be 242 RGB, linear white balance from B4 patch (the one to the right of the white patch), output gamma 2.2.

Still waiting for some sort of admission of error from Mr Bligh.

I don't think you'll see any.

At some point he started talking about "Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW"; he only have to claim that RAWs are dulled <rolling eyes> uniformly at all ISOs (by what? Applying same amount of NR from ISO100 to 12800+?).

Comparing ColorChecker data from a Ricoh GRIII raw shot processed with profile applied to ColorChecker spectral reference data I got maximum dE94 less than 4. This doesn't raise any colour accuracy or "dulling" alarms.

It doesn't matter it's just Adobe's interpretation.

Or somebody's monitor calibration, for example.

-- hide signature --
James Bligh Senior Member • Posts: 2,354
What will happen if a fixed or almost equal amount of NR is applied to RAW?

Alex Sarbu wrote:

TN Args wrote:

Still waiting for some sort of admission of error from Mr Bligh.

I don't think you'll see any.

At some point he started talking about "Premature color desaturation of GR3 RAW"; he only have to claim that RAWs are dulled <rolling eyes> uniformly at all ISOs (by what? Applying same amount of NR from ISO100 to 12800+?).

It doesn't matter it's just Adobe's interpretation.

Alex

I said 'premature' you said 'progressive'. If you want me to be more specific, I may say premature for color, progressive for noise. Considering NR usually causes desaturation of color, if one witnesses more desaturation one may presume more NR is applied which usually have been the case in high ISO.

But if we see no increase in color desaturation in the range of ISO then what is the logical conclusion?

Have you read NR is applied to RAW as early as in ISO 200 in GR3?

What will you say if I say a fixed or almost equal* amount of NR is applied to RAW in the range of ISO?

* Incrementally increased or just enough amount of NR not to cause further desaturation of color

If this is true Ricoh or Pentax may have developed an ingenious way of exploiting their preprocessor. But until it is proven we are supposed to shut our mouths and just be in awe of their achievement?

I think it is unbelievable there are no reviews which document, mention what we observe and speculate upon what happens in GR3 image processing.

Had the reviewers thought it is not a gentlemanly way of doing business to speculate something in review?

If I were they I will choose ingenuousness every day.

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You really want you a pound of flesh, don't you?
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