High megapixel crop mode

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Doug Larvey Regular Member • Posts: 332
High megapixel crop mode

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

FingerPainter Senior Member • Posts: 7,610
Re: High megapixel crop mode
3

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

Do that and you will get an unsharp, noisy image with very shallow DoF.

Chaplain Mark
Chaplain Mark Senior Member • Posts: 4,826
Re: High megapixel crop mode
4

I really doubt it.

Cropping from a high mpx count will not replace the resolving power of first-rate glass.

Those of us who combine said resolving power with the insane resolution of high mpx sensors will continue to forgive the bulk and weight of long lenses.

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OP Doug Larvey Regular Member • Posts: 332
Re: High megapixel crop mode

Hi Fingerpointer.

The shallow depth of field yes.

The noisy photo. Nope

sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 12,635
Re: High megapixel crop mode
9

It's really great to have seers into the future to help us understand our complex and ever-changing world. And I'm so looking forward to having every telephoto shot use only a tiny fraction of the sensor, completely ruining any hopes of high resolution, subject Isolation, DOF control, and light gathering area. Let's celebrate!

nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,297
And - that extra metering mode
1

You know, the Teensy-Weensy super-small-like-a-pin-head metering mode.

Hey, that's a catchy name for it.

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Adrian Tung
Adrian Tung Veteran Member • Posts: 3,679
Re: High megapixel crop mode
4

Doug Larvey wrote:

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

I'd like to see the 9000 lines/mm MTF chart of this mythical lens first.

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FingerPainter Senior Member • Posts: 7,610
Re: High megapixel crop mode
6

Doug Larvey wrote:

Hi Fingerpointer.

The shallow depth of field yes.

The noisy photo. Nope

Doug,

The noisiness of a photo depends primarily on the amount of light captured in it. If you are cropping to any significant extent, you will have thrown away most of the captured light. What remains will be noisier than the uncropped photo.

If you crop so the width and height of the crop are only 1/4 the width and height of the full image, the crop will only have about 1/4 the SNR of the uncropped image.

How noisy an image looks depends on its Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR). The higher the SNR, the less noisy the image appears. The amount of noise in light (shot noise) is equal to the square root of the signal (the amount of light). This means that the SNR is also equal to the square root of the amount of light. Capture more light and the SNR goes up. The image will look less noisy.

You are aware that cameras with smaller sensors produce noisier images, at the same exposure, aren't you? That's because the same exposure means the same amount of light per square mm of the sensor, and a larger sensor has more square mm so it captures more light.

Perhaps this analogy will help you understand.

Imagine a choir in which a number of singers equal to the square root of the total number of members in the choir sing off key. All the other choir member sing on key.

If the choir only has four member, 2 singers will be off-key. You will hear that for sure. If the choir has 16 members, four of the sixteen singers will be off key. There's still a pretty good chance you will notice them. Now imagine if you got 324 members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir together and 18 of them sang off key. You almost certainly would not notice. They be drowned out by the other 306 voices. Even though more choristers are singing the wrong notes in the 324-voice choir than in the four--voice choir, the much greater number of voices singing the correct notes makes it harder to detect the variation.

That's how noisiness works in a digital image. When you crop an image down to a small part of the original, it is like picking a four-voice choir out of the mass choir - you are going to hear the wrong notes (see the noise) much more readily.

DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 1,051
Re: High megapixel crop mode
1

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

I doubt that. If the glass can't resolve those megapixels, they're useless. Maybe the high resolution will come from SR or Pixel Shift like in Pentax, Olympus and Panasonic cameras.

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AwesomeIan Senior Member • Posts: 2,087
Re: High megapixel crop mode

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

It doesn't work that way. People would already be done this with a 50mm lens on a D850 if it worked. The problem is far away objects wont retain the same amount of detail as they would if you use a telephoto lens. Another thing to consider is bokeh. You would always end up with exactly ZERO is you use a wide lens and crop to a birds beak.

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Tuloom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,128
Re: High megapixel crop mode
4

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

And flying cars, don't forget about the flying cars.

tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 41,724
Re: High megapixel crop mode
2

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixel sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

For some people yes but no matter how much resolution a camera has long telephotos will allow you to get even closer. For that reason the need for long bulky heavy zooms will always be there.

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Tom

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Zabalint Regular Member • Posts: 189
Re: High megapixel crop mode
2

Ok, then what about using a 600 mm lens on the same high megapixel sensor, and then I will crop that picture to 10 megapixels?

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tkbslc Forum Pro • Posts: 13,126
Maybe once we have 5+ gigapixel sensors?
4

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

I would say the minimum telephoto you'd need to shoot "distant bird" would be 500mm equivalent.    To crop a 28mm lens to 500mm equivalent would reduce the resolution by 99.7%.  (17.3x crop and then 17.3^2 to calculate area lost)

To be left with 25MP, you'd have to start with 8300MP or 8.3 gigapixels.

Cropping reduces megapixels rapidly becuase while cropping is a linear dimension, megapixels is an areal dimension.  Which means the equation is exponential.

A 2x crop reduces area to only 25%.  You've already lost 75% of the pixels with just this first "small" crop.  Still taking having 12.5MP out of 50MP still leaves you with a lot of room.

3x crop means 1/9 the original pixels.  50MP is down to 5.6MP.   Getting a bit dicey, but still usable for small to medium prints.

4x crop and we are down to 1/16.  Already a 50MP sensor is down to just 3.1MP.

5x crop is 1/25.   50MP sensor becomes 2MP.

10x crop  is 1/100.  You'd need a gigapixel sensor to end up with 10MP.

Maybe software will get better to compensate for the loss, but I don't see going beyond 3-4x with a crop, even with sensors beyond 100MP.

OP Doug Larvey Regular Member • Posts: 332
Re: High megapixel crop mode
1

Hi again

Wonderful analogy using the choir. Noise seems to be a problem.

Too bad.

Schrodingers_cat Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: High megapixel crop mode

It will also be the size of an aspirin tablet and implanted into your forehead

Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 13,409
Hmmmm...
1

Doug Larvey wrote:

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

40 mm lens equivalent

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

63 mm equivalent

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

Don’t bird photographers use 500 or 800 mm lenses?

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John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 21,569
Re: High megapixel crop mode
2

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

There may be some value to having enough pixels to crop from more heavily (and I am a big fan of high pixel density), but you are a bit over-optimistic about the other limiting factors, and your math is a bit off. Pixels drop off *much* faster than you are implying; a 10x digital zoom loses 99% of the original pixel count, and a 10x digital zoom from a FF with 28mm is still very wide for a small bird, and it would be a very sharp, expensive 28/1.2 lens indeed to deliver those measly MPs with desired sharpness, which is precious with low pixel counts.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 21,569
Re: Hmmmm...
1

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Don’t bird photographers use 500 or 800 mm lenses?

In most real-world photography of small birds like sparrows, warblers and vireos, I still have to crop from 800mm on a 1.6x APS-C sensor, even when the birds are closer than normal.  Only on rare extra-close occasions or with much larger birds, is the FOV too narrow.

stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,125
Re: High megapixel crop mode

Doug Larvey wrote:

The future of all cameras will result in extremely high megapixal sensors , full frame.

The need for long bulky heavy zooms will be of days past.

Attached will be a lens with fixed focal length of 28mm at F1.2 or 1.4

Take the photo of the distant bird. Simlly crop out 50 mpixels your left with 25 to spare.

You want to zoom in on the beak?

Keep croppin.

Down to 10 Megapixels.

Proceed to print a poster of a birds beak.

The future my photographic friends.

Don't know if it's really going to work that way.

The megapixel wars are slowing down, there are practical limits to pixel density. And the big, heavy bulky zooms are just the ones that will be required to get beyond the limits of your cropping ability.

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