Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
OP ADW02 Regular Member • Posts: 220
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?
1

EE-TV wrote:

The comments on their own official forums are horrendous. People literally in their droves up in arms, helpless, desperate, freaking out about how they have been, and are being, screwed over. Seriously, some of these comments need to be looked at...

You may never see the "company" in the same light again:

https://forums.adobe.com/community/creative_cloud/content

This is an excellent post, and I very much appreciate your sending this. From letters like this I think I'm wise to have a backup program in case Adobe does suddenly double its subscription rate for basic photo development.

What I'm beginning to notice is that the Trio of On1 RAW 2019, Luminar 3 and Affinity Photo can do everything Photoshop can do in terms of processing and enhancing photos, and do it without annual subscription costs. Buying these programs is a bit expensive, initially, but if Adobe increases its subscription prices substantially, these one-time fees make sense.

Where Photoshop holds a big advantage over the Trio is in speed and convenience. Photoshop can access Nik, Topaz filters and adjustments, On1 RAW and Luminar 3 quickly and smoothly (I haven't checked to see if it can access Affinity), and when processing is done in these programs they are quickly returned to Photoshop with all developments intact. The Trio just can't  do that--yet. But if the Trio can learn to live in the same house, so to speak, Photoshop will be  history for me.

Sagittarius Veteran Member • Posts: 6,088
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

To be honest, I am not bothered by those rumors at all. They are just rumors, that is all. But if this happens (I expect price to rise some, i.e. for inflation, but not doubled overnight), then I will cross that bridge and look around for what will be available at that time. In a mean time I am enjoying using LR and PS for $9.99/mo (paying annually). My last annual payment has been $89.99/year found on Amazon. BTW I have not found any horrendous messages in the link provided. Typical messages by people having problems.

-- hide signature --

Best regards

 Sagittarius's gear list:Sagittarius's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +4 more
Brev00
Brev00 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,618
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Well, you can always switch to Elements which does enable the use of Nik, Topaz, and On1 plugins. I don't know about Skylum. The others I have in my Elements editing platform. I buy the upgrade for about $80 every three years. About $2.25/month.

 Brev00's gear list:Brev00's gear list
Nikon D90 Nikon D610 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Tamron AF 28-300mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Macro Tamron SP AF 180mm F/3.5 Di LD (IF) Macro +5 more
OP ADW02 Regular Member • Posts: 220
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Brev00 wrote:

Well, you can always switch to Elements which does enable the use of Nik, Topaz, and On1 plugins. I don't know about Skylum. The others I have in my Elements editing platform. I buy the upgrade for about $80 every three years. About $2.25/month.

Brev00, I very much appreciate that suggestion. Indeed, if my sole purpose in  using Photoshop was photo development, I believe that would be the way to go. But one of my main uses of Photoshop is in creating montages, quite beyond the capabilities of Elements. Even with Photoshop this can be an arduous process, and to do it right takes a lot of time and work, and no small dose of imagination. Total failure is only a brush stroke away.

Again, thanks for taking the time to inform me of Elements.

Toermalijn
Toermalijn Forum Pro • Posts: 15,886
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

ADW02 wrote:

EE-TV wrote:

The comments on their own official forums are horrendous. People literally in their droves up in arms, helpless, desperate, freaking out about how they have been, and are being, screwed over. Seriously, some of these comments need to be looked at...

You may never see the "company" in the same light again:

https://forums.adobe.com/community/creative_cloud/content

This is an excellent post, and I very much appreciate your sending this. From letters like this I think I'm wise to have a backup program in case Adobe does suddenly double its subscription rate for basic photo development.

What I'm beginning to notice is that the Trio of On1 RAW 2019, Luminar 3 and Affinity Photo can do everything Photoshop can do in terms of processing and enhancing photos, and do it without annual subscription costs. Buying these programs is a bit expensive, initially, but if Adobe increases its subscription prices substantially, these one-time fees make sense.

Where Photoshop holds a big advantage over the Trio is in speed and convenience. Photoshop can access Nik, Topaz filters and adjustments, On1 RAW and Luminar 3 quickly and smoothly (I haven't checked to see if it can access Affinity), and when processing is done in these programs they are quickly returned to Photoshop with all developments intact. The Trio just can't do that--yet. But if the Trio can learn to live in the same house, so to speak, Photoshop will be history for me.

Photoshop's strongpoints are still the plug-in engine en automation features. The rest can be done via alternatives. For some plug-ins I still go to Photoshop, others can't run.

I always use multiple software, since no editor is perfect and they all have their weaknesses and strongpoints...

Of course Adobe won't make compatibility 100%, think of the plug-in engine 3rd party developers are allowed to use. .8bf format. Competition would then be too easy...

K e n n e t h Senior Member • Posts: 1,100
My Plugin Library is One Reason I Still Use Photoshop CS6

Agree

I bought a bunch of plugins I can only reliably use in Photoshop CS6

Recently, some plugin companies are making their products compatible only with Photoshop CC—the reason I stopped buying them

I wonder what’s preventing other plugin companies from making their products compatible with other photo editing programs?

Toermalijn wrote:

Photoshop's strongpoints are still the plug-in engine en automation features. The rest can be done via alternatives. For some plug-ins I still go to Photoshop, others can't run.

I always use multiple software, since no editor is perfect and they all have their weaknesses and strongpoints...

Of course Adobe won't make compatibility 100%, think of the plug-in engine 3rd party developers are allowed to use. .8bf format. Competition would then be too easy...

Zabalint Regular Member • Posts: 205
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Elasticity and pricing point to maximize revenue drives a lot of the decisions. If you could double the price of a product and only lose 10% of its customers, what do you think you would do? With 90% of their customers hanging in there at double the cost, they will have increased revenues by 80%. Now if they lost 50% of their customers, it would be a wash. If they lost more than 50% of their customers, they would lose revenue.

In long terms it doesn't work this way. Their software are considered as industrial standard, and the more customers they lose, more the chance is that they may lose this position. If they double the price, and then lose 30% of the customers, they would still be better in revenue, however those 30% would choose an alternative, and those alternatives would become more popular, which would make them more attractive to people who want to learn something useful.

 Zabalint's gear list:Zabalint's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS50
Toermalijn
Toermalijn Forum Pro • Posts: 15,886
Re: My Plugin Library is One Reason I Still Use Photoshop CS6
1

K e n n e t h wrote:

Agree

I bought a bunch of plugins I can only reliably use in Photoshop CS6

Recently, some plugin companies are making their products compatible only with Photoshop CC—the reason I stopped buying them

I wonder what’s preventing other plugin companies from making their products compatible with other photo editing programs?

Toermalijn wrote:

Photoshop's strongpoints are still the plug-in engine en automation features. The rest can be done via alternatives. For some plug-ins I still go to Photoshop, others can't run.

I always use multiple software, since no editor is perfect and they all have their weaknesses and strongpoints...

Of course Adobe won't make compatibility 100%, think of the plug-in engine 3rd party developers are allowed to use. .8bf format. Competition would then be too easy...

Simple: userbase. The chance that you make more money with making a Photoshop plug-in is much bigger then with another editor with a way smaller userbase...

The moment Affinity is getting a nice userbase, it's growing every month(over140.000), it's getting more interesting to make plug-ins for that software.

Toermalijn
Toermalijn Forum Pro • Posts: 15,886
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Sagittarius wrote:

To be honest, I am not bothered by those rumors at all. They are just rumors, that is all. But if this happens (I expect price to rise some, i.e. for inflation, but not doubled overnight), then I will cross that bridge and look around for what will be available at that time. In a mean time I am enjoying using LR and PS for $9.99/mo (paying annually). My last annual payment has been $89.99/year found on Amazon. BTW I have not found any horrendous messages in the link provided. Typical messages by people having problems.

If a sales person tells you on the phone no guarantees for next year, thats a sign. They are thinking to replace the 10 dollar option for the 20 dollar option, if you want more cloud space or not.

There are only 2 ways of making (more) money:

more people buy your software. I think it's the  opposite...More people are looking for alternatives.

Increase price. hence the 20 dollar option to maintain profits.

One can be a logical step because of the other...Less users, increase of price.

On certain fora quite some people are looking for alternatives to Adobe software. Also professionals...Although the bulk of the professional users probably will continue using Adobe software....

PhotoFactor Senior Member • Posts: 2,920
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Yes.

 PhotoFactor's gear list:PhotoFactor's gear list
Samyang 12mm F2.0 NCS CS Sony a6000 Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +5 more
EE-TV
EE-TV Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Toermalijn wrote:

Sagittarius wrote:

To be honest, I am not bothered by those rumors at all. They are just rumors, that is all. But if this happens (I expect price to rise some, i.e. for inflation, but not doubled overnight), then I will cross that bridge and look around for what will be available at that time. In a mean time I am enjoying using LR and PS for $9.99/mo (paying annually). My last annual payment has been $89.99/year found on Amazon. BTW I have not found any horrendous messages in the link provided. Typical messages by people having problems.

If a sales person tells you on the phone no guarantees for next year, thats a sign. They are thinking to replace the 10 dollar option for the 20 dollar option, if you want more cloud space or not.

There are only 2 ways of making (more) money:

more people buy your software. I think it's the opposite...More people are looking for alternatives.

Increase price. hence the 20 dollar option to maintain profits.

One can be a logical step because of the other...Less users, increase of price.

On certain fora quite some people are looking for alternatives to Adobe software. Also professionals...Although the bulk of the professional users probably will continue using Adobe software....

Seems that way.

-- hide signature --

Bringing to light, Exposing what is
---------------------------------------------------

 EE-TV's gear list:EE-TV's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Nikon D40 Nikon D5500 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di LD Macro +4 more
Chaplain Mark
Chaplain Mark Senior Member • Posts: 5,100
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?
3

ADW02 wrote:

The rep I spoke with assured me that I wouldn't have a price increase while using my current plan

Until Adobe changes your plan, at which point it is no longer current, and they raise the pricing.

.

As an affordable insurance backup, I've just purchased Affinity Photo and its official workbook for $100. I will be using this along with On1RAW 2019 and Luminar 3. Each offers something the others don't, and it appears to me that this Trio can pretty much do what Photoshop can, but they are badly disjointed when it comes to coordinating with each other. In short, if Adobe doesn't increase the subscription price for its basic PS/Lightroom package beyond its current amount , Affinity will be little used, if I use it at all. But my feeling is that I would be very wise to learn Affinity thoroughly, and to find ways to coordinate it with the other two programs, as a workable backup.

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

I don't think I would ever trust Adobe, by the many, many negative comments I have read about their business model.

Affinity is a first-class pixel editor, and not a bad RAW editor.

Let me throw DxO PhotoLab 2 Elite and Capture 1 into the mix.  Both are excellent editors and very reasonably priced.

-- hide signature --

Thank You,
Chaplain Mark
-----
'Tis better to have a camera and not need one than to need a camera and not have one.
--------------
In pursuit of photographic excellence.

 Chaplain Mark's gear list:Chaplain Mark's gear list
Canon G3 X Canon PowerShot G5 X Sony a7R III +3 more
Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,807
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Chaplain Mark wrote:

ADW02 wrote:

The rep I spoke with assured me that I wouldn't have a price increase while using my current plan

Until Adobe changes your plan, at which point it is no longer current, and they raise the pricing.

.

As an affordable insurance backup, I've just purchased Affinity Photo and its official workbook for $100. I will be using this along with On1RAW 2019 and Luminar 3. Each offers something the others don't, and it appears to me that this Trio can pretty much do what Photoshop can, but they are badly disjointed when it comes to coordinating with each other. In short, if Adobe doesn't increase the subscription price for its basic PS/Lightroom package beyond its current amount , Affinity will be little used, if I use it at all. But my feeling is that I would be very wise to learn Affinity thoroughly, and to find ways to coordinate it with the other two programs, as a workable backup.

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

I don't think I would ever trust Adobe, by the many, many negative comments I have read about their business model.

Affinity is a first-class pixel editor, and not a bad RAW editor.

Let me throw DxO PhotoLab 2 Elite and Capture 1 into the mix. Both are excellent editors and very reasonably priced.

If you call $300 up front and $150 a year for the annual upgrade reasonably priced I guess so.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
Chaplain Mark
Chaplain Mark Senior Member • Posts: 5,100
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Zeee wrote:

Chaplain Mark wrote:

ADW02 wrote:

The rep I spoke with assured me that I wouldn't have a price increase while using my current plan

Until Adobe changes your plan, at which point it is no longer current, and they raise the pricing.

.

As an affordable insurance backup, I've just purchased Affinity Photo and its official workbook for $100. I will be using this along with On1RAW 2019 and Luminar 3. Each offers something the others don't, and it appears to me that this Trio can pretty much do what Photoshop can, but they are badly disjointed when it comes to coordinating with each other. In short, if Adobe doesn't increase the subscription price for its basic PS/Lightroom package beyond its current amount , Affinity will be little used, if I use it at all. But my feeling is that I would be very wise to learn Affinity thoroughly, and to find ways to coordinate it with the other two programs, as a workable backup.

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

I don't think I would ever trust Adobe, by the many, many negative comments I have read about their business model.

Affinity is a first-class pixel editor, and not a bad RAW editor.

Let me throw DxO PhotoLab 2 Elite and Capture 1 into the mix. Both are excellent editors and very reasonably priced.

If you call $300 up front and $150 a year for the annual upgrade reasonably priced I guess so.

Do you mean C1?

-- hide signature --

Thank You,
Chaplain Mark
-----
'Tis better to have a camera and not need one than to need a camera and not have one.
--------------
In pursuit of photographic excellence.

 Chaplain Mark's gear list:Chaplain Mark's gear list
Canon G3 X Canon PowerShot G5 X Sony a7R III +3 more
Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,807
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Chaplain Mark wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Chaplain Mark wrote:

ADW02 wrote:

The rep I spoke with assured me that I wouldn't have a price increase while using my current plan

Until Adobe changes your plan, at which point it is no longer current, and they raise the pricing.

.

As an affordable insurance backup, I've just purchased Affinity Photo and its official workbook for $100. I will be using this along with On1RAW 2019 and Luminar 3. Each offers something the others don't, and it appears to me that this Trio can pretty much do what Photoshop can, but they are badly disjointed when it comes to coordinating with each other. In short, if Adobe doesn't increase the subscription price for its basic PS/Lightroom package beyond its current amount , Affinity will be little used, if I use it at all. But my feeling is that I would be very wise to learn Affinity thoroughly, and to find ways to coordinate it with the other two programs, as a workable backup.

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

I don't think I would ever trust Adobe, by the many, many negative comments I have read about their business model.

Affinity is a first-class pixel editor, and not a bad RAW editor.

Let me throw DxO PhotoLab 2 Elite and Capture 1 into the mix. Both are excellent editors and very reasonably priced.

If you call $300 up front and $150 a year for the annual upgrade reasonably priced I guess so.

Do you mean C1?

Yes. It is the most expensive one out there. I have DXO and they do the same annual upgrade thing. If people want the latest enhancements that has to be considered.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
Chaplain Mark
Chaplain Mark Senior Member • Posts: 5,100
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Zeee wrote:

Chaplain Mark wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Chaplain Mark wrote:

ADW02 wrote:

The rep I spoke with assured me that I wouldn't have a price increase while using my current plan

Until Adobe changes your plan, at which point it is no longer current, and they raise the pricing.

.

As an affordable insurance backup, I've just purchased Affinity Photo and its official workbook for $100. I will be using this along with On1RAW 2019 and Luminar 3. Each offers something the others don't, and it appears to me that this Trio can pretty much do what Photoshop can, but they are badly disjointed when it comes to coordinating with each other. In short, if Adobe doesn't increase the subscription price for its basic PS/Lightroom package beyond its current amount , Affinity will be little used, if I use it at all. But my feeling is that I would be very wise to learn Affinity thoroughly, and to find ways to coordinate it with the other two programs, as a workable backup.

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

I don't think I would ever trust Adobe, by the many, many negative comments I have read about their business model.

Affinity is a first-class pixel editor, and not a bad RAW editor.

Let me throw DxO PhotoLab 2 Elite and Capture 1 into the mix. Both are excellent editors and very reasonably priced.

If you call $300 up front and $150 a year for the annual upgrade reasonably priced I guess so.

Do you mean C1?

Yes. It is the most expensive one out there. I have DXO and they do the same annual upgrade thing. If people want the latest enhancements that has to be considered.

Good point, and I did not take that side of the equation into consideration.

Math was never my strong suit......   

-- hide signature --

Thank You,
Chaplain Mark
-----
'Tis better to have a camera and not need one than to need a camera and not have one.
--------------
In pursuit of photographic excellence.

 Chaplain Mark's gear list:Chaplain Mark's gear list
Canon G3 X Canon PowerShot G5 X Sony a7R III +3 more
gaul Contributing Member • Posts: 709
Re: My Plugin Library is One Reason I Still Use Photoshop CS6

Toermalijn wrote:

K e n n e t h wrote:

I wonder what’s preventing other plugin companies from making their products compatible with other photo editing programs?

Simple: userbase. The chance that you make more money with making a Photoshop plug-in is much bigger then with another editor with a way smaller userbase...

The moment Affinity is getting a nice userbase, it's growing every month(over140.000), it's getting more interesting to make plug-ins for that software.

Exact..  Being the undisputed #1 in the game comes with this huge bonus of compatibility with the most 3rd party apps.  Yes, developers will likely first develop a 3rd party apps on the largest user base

tokumeino Senior Member • Posts: 2,348
No, but there are good news

Of course, you shouldn't trust a company whose primary interest is to make profit out of you. That beeing said, I'm currently switching from LR to something else but in all honesty, I find quite stupid to switch now because of an hypothesis/fear about the future. There are many reasons to switch from Adobe, but this plan-gate is not one of them IMHO (cloud privacy, performance issues, poor IQ, mandatory crop of mirorless RAW files to mention only a few ….).

The good news are that LR beeing dominant, many third party alternatives make it easy to import a LR catalogue, and recover many edits, plus all metadata. In addition, Adobe writes everything in regular XMP sidecar files, at disposal of any other software. So, regardless of Adobe's commercial policy, you are not traped in LR. Most alternatives are much more closed, and can sometimes be a one way trip.

Whatever your choose if you switch, make sure that the host software will make it easy to leave as well. Typically, when it comes to metadata, never choose a DAM that doesn't write everything in regular XMP files, by respecting standards.

 tokumeino's gear list:tokumeino's gear list
Fujifilm X-T30 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Canon G7 X II +6 more
MacUser2 Contributing Member • Posts: 980
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

"Trust" is the wrong word to use when evaluating a product that you buy on the open market. A corporate entity are not your parents, who make sacrifices for your wellbeing as they protect and nurture you during your formative years. The role of a corporation is to provide a service that protects the wellbeing of their shareholders. One can hope that the corporation is morally responsible in their pursuit of profits. This being said, there is nothing morally wrong with making a profit, in fact, a corporation that does not make a profit is being immoral with regard to their shareholders.

So, putting “trust” aside, it comes down to one question, are they providing a service at a price that you consider fair? If you consider the quality of the product satisfactory and the price fair, then continue to buy the product. If on the other hand, when the product no longer satisfies your needs or you are not happy with the price, then vote with your feet.

Bottom line, you should not “trust” them to make sacrifices for your benefit any more than they should “trust” you to make sacrifices on their behalf.

Please, do not take this as an apology for Adobe and their pricing policy. I personally have completely weaned myself away from Adobe products. And, when I become unhappy with my current post processing software, I will weigh the options and make the choice that best suits my needs.

SantaFeBill Senior Member • Posts: 2,938
Re: Am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely? - Lightroom
2

ADW02 wrote:

Quite simply, am I wise not to trust Adobe entirely?

Remember that Adobe made statements that were reasonably interpreted as saying that Lr would never be on a subscription plan.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads