I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 26,962
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"
1

TRIODEROB wrote:

what a great thread with much food for thought !

but …….

I changed my mind.

I started thinking about what it was that makes the Fuji system special and came to the conclusion that it is the beautiful little fast primes !

if I am going to have big heavy zooms I could get a FF Sony Alpha or SLR

its the wonderful little metal fast prime lens that are made to Leica quality for 1/5 the price that really make it a cool camera

so what I will do is pick up the 90 and call it a day …..

thanks for all the help and ideas

Well done.

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Steve Bingham

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lewiedude2
lewiedude2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,608
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

TRIODEROB wrote:

what a great thread with much food for thought !

but …….

I changed my mind.

I started thinking about what it was that makes the Fuji system special and came to the conclusion that it is the beautiful little fast primes !

if I am going to have big heavy zooms I could get a FF Sony Alpha or SLR

its the wonderful little metal fast prime lens that are made to Leica quality for 1/5 the price that really make it a cool camera

so what I will do is pick up the 90 and call it a day …..

thanks for all the help and ideas

Hmmmm...was this thread just a ruse to see how we all would behave? Lots of spirited debate. And, I for one am going to say I am saddened by your ‘ultimate’ choice. You really should go for it. I think you are missing out. Oh well, I’ll save my advice for something else.

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Remcodb
Remcodb Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

Lewiedude,

I believe you are honest and thanks for your opinion. Mine was that and based on my own experience. Over the years I’ve enjoyed the zooms and still do, but find the primes at this moment to be more challenging, creative and lighter, and I like them! And when I check my output I don’t miss anything. I learn when to take the 16/23/35/56/zooms ect.

Pro zooms remind me of my Nikon FF days when I carried a backpack full of photo gear for a daywalk. Now I backpack with a tent etc and carry my Fuji lenses in a small F-stop ICU. Loving it. For each use there is a system even within the Fuji X line up and that is great!

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Meetmer
Meetmer Contributing Member • Posts: 717
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

What’s a f stop icu?

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Remcodb
Remcodb Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

Camera/lens pouch that you can insert in a backpack. Officially from F-stop brand, but you can put it in any backpack. That way you can choose any backpack and have space for clothes/food/tent etc.

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 14,752
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...

Meetmer wrote:

I personally would be more excited about the 16-55 if it had OIS and was 50 grams lighter. I do like my 18-55 but recognize the limitations of its lack of speed. I like the challenge of working with primes but there is a certain sense of relief when I put the zoom on because of the increased flexibility,

Hence what attracted me so much to the X-H1.  I really didn't even consider the 16-55 prior to owning a camera equipped with IBIS since much of what I end up photographing while traveling is in pretty challenging light.  If not an absolute requirement, IBIS certainly opens up opportunities for handheld photography in places where it was absolutely not possible previously.  That combined with the 16-55 makes the X-H1 by far the best and most versatile travel body I've ever used (if you'll forgive my rather "fanboyish" perspective here).  Without IBIS, I would likely have never considered owning that lens.

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Jerry-Astro
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tkao2025 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

TRIODEROB wrote:

I am thinking of selling all of my primes that I picked up used

1) the 14

2) 23 f2

3) 35 magic

4) keeping the red badge 100-400

and picking up used the remaining "red badge' lens

the :

1) 8-16

2) 16-55

3) 50-140

here is my reasoning

the red badge zooms are near prime quality - they use nano coatings / super ed elements etc...

the 8-16 for seascapes and landscapes near my place in California ,

the 16-55 as a walkaround,

the 50-140 for the zoo, birds in flight near beach , closer sports,

the 100-400 for sports and birds in flight

I don't want to make any moves without thinking it over as this would be a long term purchase - not planning to flip to another system

any comments ?

I have the 16-55 and 100-400.  16-55 is a great walk around lens, but just wondering why you would need both the 50-140 and the 100-400.  I'm kind of curious myself, just because I'm thinking about getting the 50-140.  Always trying to convince myself I don't need the 60-90 length between the two.

Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 14,752
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

tkao2025 wrote:

I have the 16-55 and 100-400. 16-55 is a great walk around lens, but just wondering why you would need both the 50-140 and the 100-400. I'm kind of curious myself, just because I'm thinking about getting the 50-140. Always trying to convince myself I don't need the 60-90 length between the two.

Depends on what you shoot and what FLs you favor.  I also have a gap between 55mm and 100mm, and TBH, it hasn't bitten me once that I can recall.  Absolute worst case, a bit of cropping at 55mm might be required, but so far at least, that hasn't been an issue or really necessary for me.  Now, how much of a challenge it might be for anyone else is going to be completely dependent on what FLs that photographer tends to gravitate to and what his/her subject matter is.  I don't personally own the 50-140 because... well... I not only don't feel I'd get a lot of use out of it, but also since I already own the 16-55 and 100-400, I'm really not anxious to add another sizable and heavy lens to my kit, particularly if the FL gap isn't really presenting any real challenges.  That said, YMMV.

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Jerry-Astro
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Meetmer
Meetmer Contributing Member • Posts: 717
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...
1

I’m hoping they can introduce IBIS into the X-T4 or make the HT-2 just a little lighter  so it is comparable to the XT-3. Like many  in this forum, I got into Fuji because I wanted to balance great performance with compact size. Once  I start compromising on size then I start thinking about full frame.  So back to my original mission when getting into Fuji, I try to optimize the  size/performance curve.  Heavens knows I don’t do what I say because I have bought some pretty sweet Fuji lenses !

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OP TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,590
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...

Guys-

I rented the 16-55 this weekend

hated it !

here is why - first off its as heavy as a brick so it does not balance well without the vertical grip - then by the time you put 2 batteries in its as heavy as a FF SLR

Optically it was way inferior to the primes

(which I can back up with optical engineering reviews)

I found that it stifled by spontaneous shooting

if I want to do landscapes I would rather have the small 14

if I want a walk around lens that is light for a day of shooting with the grip optional the 35 magic is perfect

if I need some reach for the zoo or birds in flight on the beach the 50-140 zoom is truly great for the same weight as the brick

( and the focus is wonderful on the 50-140)

glad I did not buy the 16-55

BryceM
BryceM Senior Member • Posts: 1,541
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...
5

TRIODEROB wrote:

Guys-

I rented the 16-55 this weekend

hated it !

glad I did not buy the 16-55

It's fun watching the rationalization mechanisms at work in the human brain Happy shooting!

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OP TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,590
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...
4

I had a friend who told me that folks buy camera equipment on emotion and then justify it with logic

"I found that it stifled my spontaneous shooting"

BryceM
BryceM Senior Member • Posts: 1,541
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...
3

TRIODEROB wrote:

I had a friend who told me that folks buy camera equipment on emotion and then justify it with logic

"I found that it stifled my spontaneous shooting"

That's settled science.  I read a great book that discussed this (and other sneaky little glitches in the human brain) in fascinating detail - Kinda like the "owner's manual for the human brain" nobody ever gave us Totally worth the read!https://smile.amazon.com/Random-House-Audio-Stumbling-Happiness/dp/B000FII1JO/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2F35BXHVSXJMH&keywords=stumbling+on+happiness&qid=1557121944&s=books&sprefix=stumbling+o%2Caps%2C208&sr=1-2

As I recall, it demonstrated research showing that virtually any decision with more than 3 axises (cars, homes, cameras, etc,) such as price\quality\weight\feel\function\etc. is next to impossible for our extremely expensive to operate pre-frontal cortex to process rationally, so the decision (like almost all others) is done by the older, lower, and far more primitive and efficient parts of the brain, then the PFC will "guess" at a rationale on demand after the fact It's comical how seamlessly we're capable of deceiving ourselves about this fact too. And that's the most insidious part of most of our brain's limitations - It covers them so seamlessly that we never even see the magician's slight of hand at work.

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primrose Forum Member • Posts: 76
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

You are always so generous with your knowledge for a new owner to the X-T3.  I always look for your comments.

I had the 18-55mm and sold it for the 16-55mm.  I bought the kit lens with the camera but was not happy with the images  it remdered so I rented a 16-55mm.  Shortly after, I sold the 18-55mm to help purchase the 16-55mm when it was on sale.  I am practicingbut I do find shake being an issue.  I have good camera holding technique, but I have problem with getting a handle on ss, iso, etc.

I am taking a big trip this summer and have thought about the 10-24mm for the indoor cathedral photos like you suggest but I am not really a wide angle shooter and do not think that is the best lens for my travel kit.  Do you have another suggestion for indoor low light in that situation.  A prime? I understand I may not get that wide but I want detail with less chance of camera shake in lew light.

abc123brian Regular Member • Posts: 124
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...

TRIODEROB wrote:

Guys-

I rented the 16-55 this weekend

hated it !

here is why - first off its as heavy as a brick so it does not balance well without the vertical grip - then by the time you put 2 batteries in its as heavy as a FF SLR

Optically it was way inferior to the primes

(which I can back up with optical engineering reviews)

I found that it stifled by spontaneous shooting

if I want to do landscapes I would rather have the small 14

if I want a walk around lens that is light for a day of shooting with the grip optional the 35 magic is perfect

if I need some reach for the zoo or birds in flight on the beach the 50-140 zoom is truly great for the same weight as the brick

( and the focus is wonderful on the 50-140)

glad I did not buy the 16-55

It is a good thing you tried it before buying it. I think it is good for what it is, but it is big and heavy. Below you can see the size compared to my Nikon 24-70mm F/4 for my Z6.

Nikkor 24-70mm F/4 vs Fujinon 16-55mm F/2.8

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tkao2025 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

Jerry-astro wrote:

tkao2025 wrote:

I have the 16-55 and 100-400. 16-55 is a great walk around lens, but just wondering why you would need both the 50-140 and the 100-400. I'm kind of curious myself, just because I'm thinking about getting the 50-140. Always trying to convince myself I don't need the 60-90 length between the two.

Depends on what you shoot and what FLs you favor. I also have a gap between 55mm and 100mm, and TBH, it hasn't bitten me once that I can recall. Absolute worst case, a bit of cropping at 55mm might be required, but so far at least, that hasn't been an issue or really necessary for me. Now, how much of a challenge it might be for anyone else is going to be completely dependent on what FLs that photographer tends to gravitate to and what his/her subject matter is. I don't personally own the 50-140 because... well... I not only don't feel I'd get a lot of use out of it, but also since I already own the 16-55 and 100-400, I'm really not anxious to add another sizable and heavy lens to my kit, particularly if the FL gap isn't really presenting any real challenges. That said, YMMV.

Thanks for you reply.  Yeah, I feel the same way about the gear I have right now.  The only reason for the 100-400 is for my son's love of photographing wildlife.  I have a 90 f/2, although a fantastic lens, it never seems to make it onto my XH-1.  The 16-55 is stuck on my camera for the time being as it is my travel and walkabout lens.

Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 14,752
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

primrose wrote:

You are always so generous with your knowledge for a new owner to the X-T3. I always look for your comments.

I had the 18-55mm and sold it for the 16-55mm. I bought the kit lens with the camera but was not happy with the images it remdered so I rented a 16-55mm. Shortly after, I sold the 18-55mm to help purchase the 16-55mm when it was on sale. I am practicingbut I do find shake being an issue. I have good camera holding technique, but I have problem with getting a handle on ss, iso, etc.

I am taking a big trip this summer and have thought about the 10-24mm for the indoor cathedral photos like you suggest but I am not really a wide angle shooter and do not think that is the best lens for my travel kit. Do you have another suggestion for indoor low light in that situation. A prime? I understand I may not get that wide but I want detail with less chance of camera shake in lew light.

Good question and many thanks for your kind comments.  I really tend towards being a zoom shooter and have been so for the many years that I've been doing photography.  This differs greatly from much of the advice and opinions that you read in this forum, where I'd venture a guess that a large number (maybe even a majority) seem to favor shooting with primes.  I'm saying all this because you need to take any advice I might offer with a grain of salt, since for travel photography in particular, I strongly favor zooms because of their versatility.

To your specific question, I've used both zooms and primes for cathedral interiors.  Both can function very well.  Prior to acquiring my 10-24, I mostly used a Zeiss Touit 12mm for that purpose and did an excellent job.  However, the reason why I'd continue to recommend the zoom for travel is simply the need for versatility.  You encounter so many different situations while traveling, many of which are difficult to predict, and having a zoom offers the ability to tune your focal length and framing as needed on the spot and eliminate the need for having to sacrifice resolution due to cropping.  "Zooming with your feet" is a common phrase used here, but it's my humble opinion that walking into a river or off a cliff in order to get a little closer is not always the best approach for getting the shot :-).  Again... no need to argue this point and hopefully we can simply acknowledge that the best choice here strictly depends on one's personal preference.

I will state that the 10-24 is without question the best lens I've used yet for photographing large interiors, such as cathedrals.  Image quality is superb and having the ability to carefully frame your shot and not be overly constrained with a fixed FL is something I find to be very valuable for that particular purpose.  It's really up to you to decide which approach best meets your needs.  I suspect you really can't go wrong either way.

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Jerry-Astro
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lewiedude2
lewiedude2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,608
Re: Sorry, but not buying it...

TRIODEROB wrote:

Guys-

I rented the 16-55 this weekend

hated it !

here is why - first off its as heavy as a brick so it does not balance well without the vertical grip - then by the time you put 2 batteries in its as heavy as a FF SLR

Optically it was way inferior to the primes

(which I can back up with optical engineering reviews)

I found that it stifled by spontaneous shooting

if I want to do landscapes I would rather have the small 14

if I want a walk around lens that is light for a day of shooting with the grip optional the 35 magic is perfect

if I need some reach for the zoo or birds in flight on the beach the 50-140 zoom is truly great for the same weight as the brick

( and the focus is wonderful on the 50-140)

glad I did not buy the 16-55

Sorry it didn't work out for you, but hadn't you already decided not to go with the red badge zooms? I think it was last week that you decided not to do it. As for the optical prowess of the 16-55, I think it is fantastic. Sharp throughout. Not sure what the issue was with the rented copy you used, but, there are many in this forum that go out of their way to make certain that the lens's optical ability is fairly reflected as a stellar alternative, again it is just another way to make images, to primes.

Good luck with the rest of your choices and I support what ever you choose to do. We are, after all, just interested in making great images and finding the right gear with which to accomplish that goal. Cheers!

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DarnGoodPhotos Veteran Member • Posts: 9,070
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

I think either the 16 f1.4 or the 10-24; the 16 is three stops faster than the zoom which will help compensate, in comparison, for the lack of OIS. But you don’t have to be a wide angle shooter to see value in a wide angle for cathedral interiors.

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 14,752
Re: I am think of doing something crazy ... going all "red badge zooms"

DarnGoodPhotos wrote:

I think either the 16 f1.4 or the 10-24; the 16 is three stops faster than the zoom which will help compensate, in comparison, for the lack of OIS. But you don’t have to be a wide angle shooter to see value in a wide angle for cathedral interiors.

JMHO (and perhaps reflecting a lack of creativity on my part), but 16mm feels awfully long for photographing a cathedral interior (or most any interior I would think).  The faster speed would be welcome for sure, but the FOV feels pretty tight for a large, expansive space.  I’ve found that at least the more recent Fuji bodies (X-T2/3 and X-H1) can handle ISOs up to 1600-3200 quite well with very manageable noise, and that, coupled with OIS or IBIS, more than enables hand held shooting in cathedrals.  However, a narrower FOV can be pretty limiting when shooting an expansive interior with less ability to compensate save a change of lenses.

All a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but I’d personally want something around 12mm or wider for cathedral and other large interiors.  YMMV and perhaps I’m not taking into consideration other possibilities here.

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