Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,452
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
3

All of my long telephoto lenses hunt a lot more on the R and RP.  Would love to see that performance improve.

-- hide signature --

Some of my bird photos can be viewed here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gregsbirds/

BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,452
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
2

Seems like it's a bit clunky to have an adapter in the middle to me.  I can see why consumers would rather have a native lens that mounts without an adapter.  Maybe it's just a mental thing but it is a hurdle Canon will have to overcome as long as they don't have an RF mount version.

-- hide signature --

Some of my bird photos can be viewed here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gregsbirds/

ZX11
ZX11 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,748
I got mine
2

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

What dropping sales on a new FF entry level camera  mean to a fairly successful company doesn't matter to me since I have a camera I like.

The RP seems to fit nicely in the Canon body line up. Higher sales would be better but, even without great sale numbers, it still fills a hole in the camera line up that needs filling (a better cheaper 6D).

The RP is a good step up for those who enter the hobby by buying a Rebel.  Whatever lens the beginner wound up buying for their Rebel, as they dug deeper into the hobby, will work on their first full frame camera (EOS RP).  Easy as possible step up.

Not real. Note the game cross hairs and loading bar.  But good FF DOF and colors.

-- hide signature --

"Very funny, Scotty! Now beam me down my clothes."
"He's dead, Jim! You grab his tri-corder. I'll get his wallet."

 ZX11's gear list:ZX11's gear list
Canon EOS 700D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
mcslsk Veteran Member • Posts: 5,009
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

Those using their gear to make a living are not a small group. And they are the ones likely to continue to use FF cameras. Canon's focus is on that group and how to transition them orderly from DSLR to MILC (or keep them on both). The RP is an offer for users wanting to switch to FF from APS-C, the R for FF users who already own EF lenses and wan't mirrorless.

 mcslsk's gear list:mcslsk's gear list
Sony RX100 III Sony a6500 Canon EOS R Sony a7 Sony Alpha NEX-5N +52 more
lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,473
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

Peak freak wrote:

Lisa Horton wrote:

Peak freak wrote:

I think I have PTSD over what Canon expected me to pay for the 6D2, and in line with the thread, unless a small, light FF body like the RP has small, light lenses available, it is rather pointless to me.

Everyone has their own ways of seeing things, this is one that I don't really understand. The camera and lens are a unit while in use. Lower the weight of either of them and you've lowered the weight of the unit. If lowering weight is the point, then lowering the total weight should serve the point.

Yep, fair enough, I can see what you are getting at.

I do a lot of hiking, climbing etc and use a 5D2 / 16-35/4 combo. Size and weight are a definite consideration for myself.

The thing with the RP is that it is not really up to the spec that I would like, but I would be willing to compromise if there was enough of an advantage with size / weight etc.

Having to adapt EF lenses to the RP negates the one real advantage it has for me.

For example, I think Canon has done a good job with the EOS M5/50 and the EF-M 11-22. That set up might be worth the compromise in IQ for very real benefits in size and weight. [I don't think anyone else really offers a well performing WA mirrorless option for the price].

But the RP and adapted lenses? Might as well save up for the EOS R, or something else...

[I did buy a 100D and EF-S 10-18 as my lightweight kit. To cut a long story short, I still lug the 5D2/16-35 with me].

The grass is greener on the other side. For you who shoots landscape seriously consider saving for the R.

1. You will definitely appreciate the DR. For comparison, the R has as good DR as the A7II and almost that of the A7RIII. So though it isn’t up to par as the mk3 Sony bodies it is close enough.

2. I went Sony a few years ago and waited till canon came out with an MILC under 3k, and bought the R. Overall user experience, colors, design philosophy, glass, and ergonomics. I prefer all these things from canon. The Sony bodies may be smaller but they are not necessarily lighter (A7III = 650 g, R = 660 g). Due to the these reasons the R “feels” lighter, more confortable in hand. Once you go quality lenses on the sonys you negate having a small package, and the ergonomics goes way down. For me at least you get this claw light grip, which your palm separates from the body during operations, giving this constant feeling that I might drop the camera, and cramping hands.

3. Mirrorless size and weight savings is exagerated. It was a marketing thing that song pushed in the beginning, until they started producing quality GM lenses, then you don’t see any of this marketing push anymore.

4. Consider another brand... if you want good DR, light weight and small package, and quality lenses, consider Fuji. The X-T3 is an excellent camera, extremely well weather sealed, and a small package with those Fuji lenses (FF will generally always be big/heavy due to the size of those fast lenses. I for one have FF because I do loads of portraiture, so shallow DOF is something I like to have available.  But I was just on vacation with the R, and I am seriously considering a X-T30 with the 18-55 f2.8-4 for travel (and one of thier choice fast primes).

5. Long game... canon will release bodies and lenses that will have you (at least partly) regret you didn’t stay with them. The only question is if you can be patient. That 60+ MP camera is rumored to be released this year. And then there is that 15-35 f2.8 lens that will come out in July.

6. Last you hour talk about canon matching high Rez bodies. Yet you are talking about the 6d line, and saving for the R. I take it you aren’t looking at the A7R line.... so that high res thigh doesn’t matter since you are probably considering the A7III. Which is lower in resolution than the R.

good luck choosing.

Cheers

Peak freak Regular Member • Posts: 491
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

lawny13 wrote:

6. Last you hour talk about canon matching high Rez bodies. Yet you are talking about the 6d line, and saving for the R. I take it you aren’t looking at the A7R line.... so that high res thigh doesn’t matter since you are probably considering the A7III. Which is lower in resolution than the R.

good luck choosing.

Cheers

The OP asked for thoughts on the RP. I'm of the good camera, great price, needs matched lenses school of thought. If I stay with Canon, I would definitely consider one as a back up body.

I was all ready to get a 6D2 to replace my 5D2. I wasn't impressed by what I consider Canons underhand trick of using their older sensor tech. I was so looking forward to a meaningful IQ update. Instead I spent my money on a road trip and gave my trusty 5D2 a good work out!

There are lots of good options out there. I see the EOS R as a reliable, seamless update that would work well with my existing lenses while I transitioned to what will probably be class leading RF lenses.

The one issue I have is that I would prefer more resolution (I print and sell some of my work and I see benefits of more Mpix, particularly for cropping to different formats) so I reckon the A7R3 is actually the best option for me, but not as straightforward or inexpensive as sticking with Canon.

Enter the Tamron FE 'native' 17-28/2.8 which could be a great compact, lightweight all-round landscape lens (including a bit of nightsky work). This lens has me interested in Sony again. I'm not in a hurry, I'll work out what the best option is.

Handiworks
Handiworks Regular Member • Posts: 390
Re: A few weeks of data?
1
  1. onlyfreeman wrote:

I don't read Japanese but this hardly seems useful.

This made me laugh!  Great comment.  I love it when something somewhat impossible to really quantify (such as a 1 month view of market potential) generates this much opinion and speculation.

I’ve loved reading all the comments... easy to ferret out who has been a long time Canon user or Pro vs. “Hi, allow me the pleasure of regurgitating what  Jared and Tony vlogged”.

Every opinion has value but not necessarily merit or validity.

-- hide signature --

Canon RP, Canon EF 24-105 STM, Olympus OMD-EM1, & some other bits.
"The present is the only place where time touches eternity" C.S. Lewis

 Handiworks's gear list:Handiworks's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ
Handiworks
Handiworks Regular Member • Posts: 390
Re: dumped A7III USED sales record setting @ #1 in Japan (ah-ha!)
1

PhozoKozmos wrote:

diness wrote:

Buddy, you seriously need to calm down. It’s going to be ok

  • who me?
  • nope.
  • you got the wrong person!

i'm as pleased as peach!

'cuz EVERYTHING is fine and dandy. (as I expected)

it's GREAT to SEE the WHOLE picture

the only folks flustered, are those who see (or promote) only a tiny bit of the picture, never the whole; and knee-jerk react on the basis of INCOMPLETE information (worse when they mislead others to knee-jerk react based on incomplete information) = this is an unfortunate popular theme nowadays instigated by others. (unknown reasons, except for kicks)

2019 March Actuals:

New vs Used:

■ NEW

新品デジカメ3月ランキング
1位RICOHGR IIIコンパクトデジタルカメラ
2位CanonEOS RPミラーレス一眼カメラ FF
3位SONYα7IIIミラーレス一眼カメラ FF
4位SONYα6400ミラーレス一眼カメラ
5位FUJIFILMX-T30ミラーレス一眼カメラ
6位OLYMPUSTough TG-5コンパクトデジタルカメラ7位NikonZ6ミラーレス一眼カメラ
8位CanonEOS Rミラーレス一眼カメラ FF
9位CanonIXY200コンパクトデジタルカメラ
10位PanasonicLUMIX DC-G9 PROミラーレス一眼カメラ

USED

中古デジカメ3月ランキング
1位SONYα7IIIミラーレス一眼カメラ FF ... yikes ...
2位SONYα7IIミラーレス一眼カメラ FF
3位CanonEOS 5D Mark IIIデジタル一眼レフカメラ FF
4位NikonD750デジタル一眼レフカメラ FF
5位CanonEOS 5D Mark IVデジタル一眼レフカメラ FF
6位CanonEOS 6Dデジタル一眼レフカメラ FF
7位FUJIFILMX-T20ミラーレス一眼カメラ
8位OLYMPUSOM-D E-M1 Mark IIミラーレス一眼カメラ
9位NikonD850デジタル一眼レフカメラ FF ... yikes ...
10位RICOHGR IIコンパクトデジタルカメラ

TRANSLATION:

2019 March:

NEW: buy 'em to keep 'em ... !

New digital camera 2019 March ranking
1st RICOHGR III compact digital camera
2nd place Canon EOS RP mirrorless one eye camera
3rd place SONY α7 III mirrorless one eye camera
4th place SONY α 6400 mirrorless one eye camera
5th FUJIFILMX-T30 mirrorless one eye camera
6th OLYMPUSTough TG-5 compact digital camera 7th place Nikon Z 6 mirrorless one eye camera
8th Canon EOS R mirrorless one eye camera
9th Canon IXY 200 Compact Digital Camera
10th Panasonic LUMIX DC-G9 PRO mirrorless one eye camera

USED: previous buyers used them a long time vs very short time = dumped them ASAP!

Used digital camera 2019 March ranking
1 place SONY α7 III mirrorless one eye camera ... ouch! (Spring 2018)
2nd place SONY α7 II mirrorless one eye camera
3rd Canon EOS 5D Mark III Digital SLR Camera
4th Nikon D750 Digital SLR Camera
5th Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Digital SLR Camera
6th Canon EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera
7th FUJIFILMX-T20 mirrorless one eye camera
8th OLYMPUSOM-D E-M1 Mark II mirrorless one eye camera
9th Nikon D850 Digital SLR Camera (2017 Fall)
10th RICOHGR II compact digital camera

  • improving FULL CONTEXT helps clearing things up!!!

Where red is this data from?

-- hide signature --

Canon RP, Canon EF 24-105 STM, Olympus OMD-EM1, & some other bits.
"The present is the only place where time touches eternity" C.S. Lewis

 Handiworks's gear list:Handiworks's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ
lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,473
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

Peak freak wrote:

lawny13 wrote:

6. Last you hour talk about canon matching high Rez bodies. Yet you are talking about the 6d line, and saving for the R. I take it you aren’t looking at the A7R line.... so that high res thigh doesn’t matter since you are probably considering the A7III. Which is lower in resolution than the R.

good luck choosing.

Cheers

The OP asked for thoughts on the RP. I'm of the good camera, great price, needs matched lenses school of thought. If I stay with Canon, I would definitely consider one as a back up body.

I was all ready to get a 6D2 to replace my 5D2. I wasn't impressed by what I consider Canons underhand trick of using their older sensor tech. I was so looking forward to a meaningful IQ update. Instead I spent my money on a road trip and gave my trusty 5D2 a good work out!

There are lots of good options out there. I see the EOS R as a reliable, seamless update that would work well with my existing lenses while I transitioned to what will probably be class leading RF lenses.

The one issue I have is that I would prefer more resolution (I print and sell some of my work and I see benefits of more Mpix, particularly for cropping to different formats) so I reckon the A7R3 is actually the best option for me, but not as straightforward or inexpensive as sticking with Canon.

Enter the Tamron FE 'native' 17-28/2.8 which could be a great compact, lightweight all-round landscape lens (including a bit of nightsky work). This lens has me interested in Sony again. I'm not in a hurry, I'll work out what the best option is.

I know that the OP mentioned the RP, but the discussion did bring up the R.

Thing is I am not gonna encourage people to bet on one horse or another yet. I may have come back to the canon camp,  but the fact is that it will take at least a year or year and a half before people can start having an idea of which camp to be in. Switching is a tedious and potentially expensive action.

Sony does have some great tech. But in general before tamron entered the FE lens mount Sony glass was more expensive than canon, kinda removing the financial savings on the body.

The RF 35 and 24-105 f4 are both cheaper than the Sony options. If the trinity zooms are as well (by 100+ euros) then my bet would pan out.

I fully agree with you on the 6D2 and also the RP in terms of DR. It is stupid canon move since they are the only two bodies releases with the disappointing DR of previous generations.

On an engineering and business point of view I hope that they are working on releasing new gen sensors this next body release and onwards. The 5DIV And R DR is more than adaquite, but IBIS and faster readout speeds (for full width 4K, not that I care about video, but rather FPS and rolling shutter implications) would push them to a very good spot.

Canon’s user experience, touch interface and ergonomics is already way up there. Their RF lenses are as well, they really just need a body or two to catch up as well.

Handiworks
Handiworks Regular Member • Posts: 390
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

jalywol wrote:

Lisa Horton wrote:

Peak freak wrote:

I think I have PTSD over what Canon expected me to pay for the 6D2, and in line with the thread, unless a small, light FF body like the RP has small, light lenses available, it is rather pointless to me.

Everyone has their own ways of seeing things, this is one that I don't really understand. The camera and lens are a unit while in use. Lower the weight of either of them and you've lowered the weight of the unit. If lowering weight is the point, then lowering the total weight should serve the point.

I was all set to buy the 6D2, just waiting for checks to clear when the RP came out at a price that surprised me. I'd handled the 6D2 in store and it was fairly similar in size and weight to my outgoing 50D. The RP is clearly lighter and smaller, making the entire unit lighter and smaller no matter what lens I'm using. I also feel that a lighter body balances better with large lenses, but probably only because I've gotten used to that over time.

I agree with you....but I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be a gender difference in how people perceive the RP.

Great point,

The minute the RP was announced, and I saw the body weight, I knew I was going to get it. I know, from experience, that my comfort zone with camera bodies is 400-500g. At that weight, the body balances differently in my hand than a heavier one, and, even with larger lenses, the torque it puts on my wrist and elbow is considerably reduced.

In practice, the RP has, indeed, proven to be enjoyable, and not painful, to use, even with the not tiniest of lenses on it (EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 II plus converter is about 850g, so it's not a lightweight). More bulk and weight in hand of a larger body, for me is far more uncomfortable to use, especially when carrying it around for a day of shooting.

On the other hand, if I had big man paws, I'd be worried that the RP might be too small, sure. But not for me....

For me, this was the case.  I didn’t enjoy the Oly OMD simply because it was too small.  The EG-1 extender turned the RP into the perfect camera as far as size for me personally... I thought it was a gimmick till I got the camera, picked it up and my last 1.5 fingers were hanging off and I lost the leverage I needed with the 24-105.

Canon should have turned the EG-1 into a small battery pack with extra SD slot and sold or included it cheap!

Now, if Canon was smart, they might want to figure out how to market the camera to this segment of the marketplace, without alienating the entire male customer base....tough to do.

-J

-- hide signature --

Canon RP, Canon EF 24-105 STM, Olympus OMD-EM1, & some other bits.
"The present is the only place where time touches eternity" C.S. Lewis

 Handiworks's gear list:Handiworks's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ
PhozoKozmos
PhozoKozmos Senior Member • Posts: 1,543
Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (March 2019)

(Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump) sales (repeat buy of any one camera unit = doubles the sale of any single unit) March 2019.

it's obvious those dumping Sony FF A7III (in 2018+2019) in record numbers are massively switching to Canon FF MILCs: 2019 EOS RP or 2018 EOS R

Japan is predominantly Canon buyer/keeper/users territory.

-- hide signature --

pzk
phos.zoe.kosmos (light.life.world)
phos-kosmos (light of the world)
phos-zoe (light of life)
photo-graph-them-all!

 PhozoKozmos's gear list:PhozoKozmos's gear list
Canon PowerShot SX50 HS Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II Venus Laowa 12mm F2.8 Zero-D
Holscen Contributing Member • Posts: 562
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

BirdShooter7 wrote:

All of my long telephoto lenses hunt a lot more on the R and RP. Would love to see that performance improve.

Please could you tell me which lenses haven't worked as expected, I often read reviews on this forum staying the af  was better than Canon's dslrs!

Many thanks

 Holscen's gear list:Holscen's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 35mm F1.4L II USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM +4 more
PhozoKozmos
PhozoKozmos Senior Member • Posts: 1,543
Canon EF mount (old? pre-ExpSIM Live-View? 3rd-party?, etc) + wrong settings

Holscen wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

All of my long telephoto lenses hunt a lot more on the R and RP. Would love to see that performance improve.

Please could you tell me which lenses haven't worked as expected, I often read reviews on this forum staying the af was better than Canon's dslrs!

Many thanks

BirdShooter7 has no gear lists having no lenses at all; so any answers are iffy.

  • EF OEM Lenses (old film era lenses only?)
  • EF-mount (non-OEM lenses)?
  • EF OEM Pre-ExpSIM Live-View Lenses (pre-2005)
  • EF OEM Pre-ExpSIM Live-View AF Final Image Simulation Preview Lenses? (2012)
  • EF OEM older generation RAW CR2 EOS dSLR Lenses?
  • EF OEM newer generation RAW CR2 higher-power dual-speedmode EOS Lenses
  • RF OEM newer generation high-speed RAW CR3 high-speed Full-Live-View EOS Lenses
  • EF mount non-OEM Lenses (=not up to ExpSIM Live-View AF capabilities)
  • RF mount non-OEM Lenses (=not up to ExpSIM Live-View AF capabilities)
  • EFS OEM Lenses (old or new)
  • EF-mount (APSC Coverage) 3rd-party lenses

■ and ... last but not least ...

  • RF OEM Lenses (used incorrectly or non-optimally = ExpSIM Live-View disabled)
-- hide signature --

pzk
phos.zoe.kosmos (light.life.world)
phos-kosmos (light of the world)
phos-zoe (light of life)
photo-graph-them-all!

 PhozoKozmos's gear list:PhozoKozmos's gear list
Canon PowerShot SX50 HS Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II Venus Laowa 12mm F2.8 Zero-D
diness Veteran Member • Posts: 3,191
Re: Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)
4

PhozoKozmos wrote:

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

This shows used sales not dumps, it’s still being sold, just in used form.   Obviously it has far more used bodies out there because it’s older...  it’s not rocket science

Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (March 2019)

has nothing to do with whether or not they’ll keep it.  Just a new purchase.  You can’t even buy the RP used because there are none available at this point.

(Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump) sales (repeat buy of any one camera unit = doubles the sale of any single unit) March 2019.

it's obvious those dumping Sony FF A7III (in 2018+2019) in record numbers are massively switching to Canon FF MILCs: 2019 EOS RP or 2018 EOS R

how is that obvious?   Some are doing that for sure, but some are probably buying Nikons or A9s or A7riiis.  You are assuming a ton here.

Fact is, I buy stuff used all the time.  Doesn’t mean I want t less, just means I want a deal.   The fact that there are tons more used Canon Ef 70-200 f2.8 ii lenses out there than version iii doesn’t mean the ii is worse, it’s jsut been out longer

Japan is predominantly Canon buyer/keeper/users territory.

-- hide signature --

pzk
phos.zoe.kosmos (light.life.world)
phos-kosmos (light of the world)
phos-zoe (light of life)
photo-graph-them-all!

 diness's gear list:diness's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Sony a7 III Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Tamron SP 24-70mm F2.8 G2 Tamron SP 70-200 F2.8 G2
BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,452
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

Yes it was those reviews that prompted me to buy an RP and R.  The lenses I have been using are the EF 500mm f/4L IS v1 and 2 and the EF 600mm f/4L IS USM v1 and v2 both with and without 1.4 III or 2x III.

-- hide signature --

Some of my bird photos can be viewed here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gregsbirds/

rrc1967 Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)
2

diness wrote:

PhozoKozmos wrote:

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

This shows used sales not dumps, it’s still being sold, just in used form. Obviously it has far more used bodies out there because it’s older... it’s not rocket science

actually, I think you explain that away way too quickly and easily without much reason.

If the A7 III which has only been out for less than 2 years, is also the highest ranked used camera in terms of sale, that strikes me as a bit of a problem.

that would indicate that there are more people trying the A7 III and turning around and selling it off, versus other brands for instance, selling off used cameras to buy into the A7 series.

Now if there was an A7 IV out already then seeing a large amount of used A7 III"s would make alot of sense. it really doesn't make alot of sense when it's the current version of the camera.

However I haven't see PK's data, I've only seen data from MapCamera that had used and retail sales, and the A7 III has been top on used since it almost came out.

for example:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=30944

this was from June 2017, and we see that the 6D and 5D Mark III are the top used cameras. makes sense. the 5D Mark IV and the 6D Mark II have been announced / rumored.

a little later in the year

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

we see that the 6D is now the top used, and the 6D Mark II is the top sold. Again, makes sense.

We scoot forward a year and again, the chart makes sense:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

the A7 III top seller and the A7 II up near the top as well.

fast forward to when both the EOS R and Nikon Z6 are both out and shipping;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31959

and we see a curious change; the A7 III is now being sold off.

in January of this year, same thing, the A7 II/A7 III is now being sold off more than anything else, and even the A7R III.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32024

Feb, same thing really top in sales and top in used market;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32115

even after other cameras take over from top sales, the A7 III is still the top used.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32214

Whether you are a sony fan or whatever, you have to admit that is curious data.  Someone's putting up these A7 III's for sale, and they are doing so in numbers they haven't in the past.

Granted MAP Camera is one large camera store in Japan, it's not exactly a good indicator of a market, but it's showing something we've never really seen before.

XeroJay
XeroJay Senior Member • Posts: 2,015
Re: Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)
3

rrc1967 wrote:

diness wrote:

PhozoKozmos wrote:

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

This shows used sales not dumps, it’s still being sold, just in used form. Obviously it has far more used bodies out there because it’s older... it’s not rocket science

actually, I think you explain that away way too quickly and easily without much reason.

If the A7 III which has only been out for less than 2 years, is also the highest ranked used camera in terms of sale, that strikes me as a bit of a problem.

that would indicate that there are more people trying the A7 III and turning around and selling it off, versus other brands for instance, selling off used cameras to buy into the A7 series.

Now if there was an A7 IV out already then seeing a large amount of used A7 III"s would make alot of sense. it really doesn't make alot of sense when it's the current version of the camera.

However I haven't see PK's data, I've only seen data from MapCamera that had used and retail sales, and the A7 III has been top on used since it almost came out.

for example:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=30944

this was from June 2017, and we see that the 6D and 5D Mark III are the top used cameras. makes sense. the 5D Mark IV and the 6D Mark II have been announced / rumored.

a little later in the year

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

we see that the 6D is now the top used, and the 6D Mark II is the top sold. Again, makes sense.

We scoot forward a year and again, the chart makes sense:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

the A7 III top seller and the A7 II up near the top as well.

fast forward to when both the EOS R and Nikon Z6 are both out and shipping;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31959

and we see a curious change; the A7 III is now being sold off.

in January of this year, same thing, the A7 II/A7 III is now being sold off more than anything else, and even the A7R III.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32024

Feb, same thing really top in sales and top in used market;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32115

even after other cameras take over from top sales, the A7 III is still the top used.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32214

Whether you are a sony fan or whatever, you have to admit that is curious data. Someone's putting up these A7 III's for sale, and they are doing so in numbers they haven't in the past.

Granted MAP Camera is one large camera store in Japan, it's not exactly a good indicator of a market, but it's showing something we've never really seen before.

Well, I can tell you that here in Canada, people were literally scalping the A7III for exorbitant prices due to the demand right up until October. This would be considered a used sale, as someone bought it new then sold it. That would be considered someone "dumping" the A7III, when in reality, it's scalping. We saw prices for A7III bodies in private sales hitting almost $1000 over retail.

 XeroJay's gear list:XeroJay's gear list
Canon EOS M6 Sony a7 III Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Sigma 20mm F1.4 DG HSM Art +4 more
rrc1967 Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)

XeroJay wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

diness wrote:

PhozoKozmos wrote:

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

This shows used sales not dumps, it’s still being sold, just in used form. Obviously it has far more used bodies out there because it’s older... it’s not rocket science

actually, I think you explain that away way too quickly and easily without much reason.

If the A7 III which has only been out for less than 2 years, is also the highest ranked used camera in terms of sale, that strikes me as a bit of a problem.

that would indicate that there are more people trying the A7 III and turning around and selling it off, versus other brands for instance, selling off used cameras to buy into the A7 series.

Now if there was an A7 IV out already then seeing a large amount of used A7 III"s would make alot of sense. it really doesn't make alot of sense when it's the current version of the camera.

However I haven't see PK's data, I've only seen data from MapCamera that had used and retail sales, and the A7 III has been top on used since it almost came out.

for example:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=30944

this was from June 2017, and we see that the 6D and 5D Mark III are the top used cameras. makes sense. the 5D Mark IV and the 6D Mark II have been announced / rumored.

a little later in the year

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

we see that the 6D is now the top used, and the 6D Mark II is the top sold. Again, makes sense.

We scoot forward a year and again, the chart makes sense:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

the A7 III top seller and the A7 II up near the top as well.

fast forward to when both the EOS R and Nikon Z6 are both out and shipping;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31959

and we see a curious change; the A7 III is now being sold off.

in January of this year, same thing, the A7 II/A7 III is now being sold off more than anything else, and even the A7R III.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32024

Feb, same thing really top in sales and top in used market;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32115

even after other cameras take over from top sales, the A7 III is still the top used.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32214

Whether you are a sony fan or whatever, you have to admit that is curious data. Someone's putting up these A7 III's for sale, and they are doing so in numbers they haven't in the past.

Granted MAP Camera is one large camera store in Japan, it's not exactly a good indicator of a market, but it's showing something we've never really seen before.

Well, I can tell you that here in Canada

Canada isn't even really classified as a market, not to mention that it happened *since* november and from what I understand there has been no Sony supply issues either late last year or this year.

that could be a Sony Canada supply problem versus anything else.

ALso this is used from MAP Camera which would mean that people are bringing the cameras back to MAPCamera to sell used, so what you are suggesting probably doesn't apply in this case.

the point is.. it's a peculiar trend according to MAPCamera data and the only one we've seen actually tabulated out instead of anecdotal evidence.

everything up to last November *made sense*

people were upgrading cameras, selling them off as used, and buying new cameras. the most purchased, was the Sony A7 III. and then starting in December last year, the A7 III's started getting sold.

dpr4bb Senior Member • Posts: 1,351
Re: Canon EOS RP+R keeper FF sales #1+#2 in Japan (Sony A7III = #1 FF dumper (buy+dump)

rrc1967 wrote:

XeroJay wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

diness wrote:

PhozoKozmos wrote:

jay-A wrote:

mcslsk wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

I don't get your logic - this is a small number of users, so what is really the point in getting these to transition while the rest massively switch to Sony?

  • the trend is Sony A7III is the #1 dumped FF MILC on record

This shows used sales not dumps, it’s still being sold, just in used form. Obviously it has far more used bodies out there because it’s older... it’s not rocket science

actually, I think you explain that away way too quickly and easily without much reason.

If the A7 III which has only been out for less than 2 years, is also the highest ranked used camera in terms of sale, that strikes me as a bit of a problem.

that would indicate that there are more people trying the A7 III and turning around and selling it off, versus other brands for instance, selling off used cameras to buy into the A7 series.

Now if there was an A7 IV out already then seeing a large amount of used A7 III"s would make alot of sense. it really doesn't make alot of sense when it's the current version of the camera.

However I haven't see PK's data, I've only seen data from MapCamera that had used and retail sales, and the A7 III has been top on used since it almost came out.

for example:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=30944

this was from June 2017, and we see that the 6D and 5D Mark III are the top used cameras. makes sense. the 5D Mark IV and the 6D Mark II have been announced / rumored.

a little later in the year

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

we see that the 6D is now the top used, and the 6D Mark II is the top sold. Again, makes sense.

We scoot forward a year and again, the chart makes sense:

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31002

the A7 III top seller and the A7 II up near the top as well.

fast forward to when both the EOS R and Nikon Z6 are both out and shipping;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=31959

and we see a curious change; the A7 III is now being sold off.

in January of this year, same thing, the A7 II/A7 III is now being sold off more than anything else, and even the A7R III.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32024

Feb, same thing really top in sales and top in used market;

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32115

even after other cameras take over from top sales, the A7 III is still the top used.

https://news.mapcamera.com/maptimes.php?itemid=32214

Whether you are a sony fan or whatever, you have to admit that is curious data. Someone's putting up these A7 III's for sale, and they are doing so in numbers they haven't in the past.

Granted MAP Camera is one large camera store in Japan, it's not exactly a good indicator of a market, but it's showing something we've never really seen before.

Well, I can tell you that here in Canada

Canada isn't even really classified as a market, not to mention that it happened *since* november and from what I understand there has been no Sony supply issues either late last year or this year.

that could be a Sony Canada supply problem versus anything else.

ALso this is used from MAP Camera which would mean that people are bringing the cameras back to MAPCamera to sell used, so what you are suggesting probably doesn't apply in this case.

the point is.. it's a peculiar trend according to MAPCamera data and the only one we've seen actually tabulated out instead of anecdotal evidence.

everything up to last November *made sense*

people were upgrading cameras, selling them off as used, and buying new cameras. the most purchased, was the Sony A7 III. and then starting in December last year, the A7 III's started getting sold.

Whatever happened to rrccad?

lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,473
Re: I don't think it's surprising

forpetessake wrote:

Here is my take. There are three broad categories of photographers: the casual and undemanding users (soccer moms, social networks users, etc.), the enthusiasts (technology enthusiasts, retired professionals, dpreview nuts, etc.), and working professionals.

The first category wants cheaper, lighter, the most automated products. They are not attracted to the R line. Even the cheap RP isn't competitive with M50 and Rebels.

The third category work for money, the R line doesn't give any advantages to them. To the contrary, it would cost them money building a new system and selling the old one. This category is also reluctant to use version one of anything, any unproven technology is a risk to their business.

So, only the second category can potentially embrace the R line en masse. But this category is largely populated by knowledgeable people with deep pockets. They aren't going to choose something only because it's cheaper. Moreover, they buy bodies, lenses, accessories, so they evaluate the total cost of the system, which is significantly higher than a body. So, say you have $5000 to spend, would you go with R/RP or A7iii? I think majority would choose A7iii, they will get better body and more lenses for the same money. Even adapted EF lenses often work better on A7iii than on R. I was surprised to see the animal eye-AF was working fine with adapter lenses on A7iii. Add to that IBIS and you can pick up high quality unstabilized lenses for peanuts. For example, the unstabilized 70-200mm and 135/2 work great on A7iii, not so on R.

What Canon needs to do to change the situation is to release a better body with IBIS, while making more RF lenses. And I mean, high quality RF lenses, large and small. They don't have to be cheap, the group #1 won't be buying anyway. And the group #2 won't be attracted by the cheap low quality lenses. RF lenses is the only thing that is drawing me personally to the R system. I think it will take Canon at least 2 years before it can become as attractive as Sony.

Though your logic does make sense you seemed to have left out some parameters. For example, adjust that buy in price to something more like 4k on average. 
Another thing is that group 2 are also aware that brands do tend to leap frog one another, though that tends to happen years apart, and that those people are also aware of what they want AND what they need. Like your comment on eye AF. Sure it is an interesting feature for sony, but it isn't as important to that group as one might think. Most from group 2 and 3 realize that it is about the glass more than the body. No matter what kinds of smoke someone might want to blow up my _ _ _, they won't be able to convince me that the body matters more than the lenses. Any entry level camera from these past 2 generations will produce better image with a top of the line lens, than a top of the line body with a cheap kit lens. 
Don't get me wrong, sony tech has come a long long long way, and canikon can take some pointers for sure. But too many people seem to be a little unrealistic in a hypocritical way. Loads and loads of sony supporters used to excuse them for pretty much everything, from QC issues, to undisclosed FW imposed behavioral issues, star eater and baked in RAW adjustments, over heating, high priced lenses etc. Canikon comes out with a body that is more like a v 2.5 (yes the R and Z6 are definitely better than the A7II), and they focus on the 2 slots, and the lack of lenses?? Wow. Canon has released 4 lenses (3 of them L). 2x of them that sony has anything close to matching (35 and 24-105) are cheaper than sony glass, and performs on par if not better. They have the trinity f2.8 zooms coming out by July, and a higher end body supposedly set to be released this year. Patents filed also imply more interesting things to come in 2020. 
So that is 1 mid, low, and high end body in 1 year, and 7 high end L lenses in 9 months. On the other hand the A7II came out in 2014, and the work horse 24-70 and 70-200 GMs not till 2016 with no "pro" body till a year later. 
And then there is the other thing. Sony has been competing against DSLR lenses. Sony fans were always pushing and claiming how sony glass is superior, while in fact they were pretty much on par with any modern lenses from canikon. Then BAM! canikon gets the short flange no mirror options for design as well. 50 f1.2 sharp corner to corner. 24-105 sharp corner to corner through out the range. Same for the 28-70 f2 AND parafocal, and minimal focus shift (focuses wide open providing the AF system maximum light). Sony no long has the mirrorless advantage with lens design, and they are constrained by there ill choice of mount diameter. So lets see what comes out of canikon in terms of lenses. Good luck adapting RF lenses to FE... or Z lenses for that matter. And enjoy paying a premium for lenses that can no longer use the MILC argument for pricing.
I say it to everyone. Don't bet on sony, canon, or nikon yet. Now that they big two have entered FF MILC, and not even a year has passed, it is simply too soon to call it. People are grasping at straws when they do. Canon will focus on lenses a lot, while sony will push the body features as much as possible to compensate for what they lack in terms of lens design. Sony is still good at it, but I don't expect f1.2 lenses or for them to match the potential price, size, weight that the wider Z/RF mounts will provide us.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads