Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
FujLiver
FujLiver Contributing Member • Posts: 687
Why obsess about these nonsense stats
1

Many cameras sell well the first month they are launched. Its still doing pretty well.

Have you bought it ?

Have you enjoyed the light weight, gorgeous photos and great responsiveness and accuracy ?

Whats not to like ?

If you want a A9 or EOS-R or M10-P then buy one ...

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Shiranai
Shiranai Regular Member • Posts: 354
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
2

I'll copy the same thing I wrote in the thread over at the cheering Sony group (and of course will get a lot of backlash for it):

Well first of all, these numbers just show one month and we don't know if there were any price reductions or sales going on in Japan which might be the reason for the rise in sales of the A7III. Also Sonys firmware update and advertisement for A.I. animal autofocus might be reason for increased sales.

Good for the Canon customer tho, cause Canon already reacted with reduced prices. So R and A7III are now on the same level and they will wait and see how this turns out.

Second I still see the RP as a success for Canon, cause its still selling better than its main competitor, the Sony A7 II, which sells way cheaper. And I think with the RP it was always Canons main intention to cut these margins from Sony.

Third, full frame mirrorless is only a chunk of the mirrorless market, in which Canon leads sales with the EOS M50 / M100 (27% of sales only with these 2). The full frame market is only a peanut of these sales, A7III is selling something like 2%.

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Silvex Senior Member • Posts: 1,379
Re: I could be wrong, but...
4

jay-A wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

Silvex wrote:

...$1000 sooner than I expected. Great news for those who may be considering it.

ummm probably not?

Indeed. They are probably already selling at low margin, so going further below would be at a loss. Canon want their market share back but probably not at any cost.

...I did predict the 6DII would settle into the $1200-1400 range and that the R would sell below $2,000.

twomonger Regular Member • Posts: 178
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

koenkooi wrote:

From my limited time with the RF50 and RF24-105, RF lenses feel like they focus faster/less hesitant than EF lenses. OTOH, all my EF lenses are relatively old designs, the newest is from 2009, the 100mm f/2.8L.

I haven’t personally observed this, but my EF lenses are mostly newer Sigma Art lenses and L lenses (all post 2012). They focus just as decisively as the RF 24-105mm and with improved accuracy thanks to the on sensor focusing. All the f/1.4 lenses are far easier to use on the EOS R.

The only downside is that the R does not drive the focus as fast as a DSLR when very far out of focus.

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synp71 Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

JoWinter wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

One comment on this again, I think more the lack of a kit lens to be more of a problem. I don't really think lenses, in general, are a problem, but the lack of a suitable kit lens is just freaking odd.

I agree, absolutely. If you want to achieve a 15 or 20 percent market share, you need to attract buyers that do not yet own a Canon full-frame DSLR yet (Canon M and APS-C owners, those coming from other brands). These potential customers do not own EF lenses.

Some people suggest that the availability of the adapter and the existing ecosystem of EF lenses is good enough, but I don't think so. Few potential buyers will consider an EF lens now as a stop-gap until a similar RF lens comes out in one, two, three years. Sure, Canon can't introduce all these lenses at once, but they need to cover the gap. Affordable, versatile kit lenses are essential for that.

I have a really hard time figuring out why Canon did not introduce a true RF kit lens one along with the RF -- even though I accept that they are playing a long game.

I agree about the EF lenses adapter not being good enough. I am coming from Nikon APS-C, so none of my lenses would work on either Nikon Z or Canon R. I'd consider using an adapter for some exotic lenses, like maybe a macro or a dedicated portrait lens or a fisheye. But not the walk-around lenses. Using an adapter will always be more clunky than a dedicated lens.

As for what Canon is doing, I think it's obvious: they're working on a high-end system, so they're releasing the lenses first. The current bodies are just something to hold the high-end lenses until there's enough of them to release the high-end body. The cheaper lenses will come later.

onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 1,471
A few weeks of data?
1

I don't read Japanese but this hardly seems useful.

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dmanthree
dmanthree Veteran Member • Posts: 7,827
Re: A few weeks of data?
1

onlyfreeman wrote:

I don't read Japanese but this hardly seems useful.

To quote a line from an old TV show: he says things that seem vague but are in fact meaningless.

Like this "report."

-- hide signature --

---enjoys shooting with inferior gear---

rrc1967 Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: I could be wrong, but...
4

Silvex wrote:

jay-A wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

Silvex wrote:

...$1000 sooner than I expected. Great news for those who may be considering it.

ummm probably not?

Indeed. They are probably already selling at low margin, so going further below would be at a loss. Canon want their market share back but probably not at any cost.

...I did predict the 6DII would settle into the $1200-1400 range and that the R would sell below $2,000.

you predicted that over time Canon would lower prices of two cameras. Good Job!

I mean seriously, Canon always lowers prices of its cameras over the lifecycle of the camera.

it's Canon's normal spring cycle for rebates, don't read too much into it.

There are some cameras with some other pretty massive sales on right now.

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,139
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

The good Canon-in-Japan news is that the M50 (Kiss M) is (BCN) consistently the best selling mirrorless camera there.

Silvex Senior Member • Posts: 1,379
Re: I could be wrong, but...
4

rrc1967 wrote:

Silvex wrote:

jay-A wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

Silvex wrote:

...$1000 sooner than I expected. Great news for those who may be considering it.

ummm probably not?

Indeed. They are probably already selling at low margin, so going further below would be at a loss. Canon want their market share back but probably not at any cost.

...I did predict the 6DII would settle into the $1200-1400 range and that the R would sell below $2,000.

you predicted that over time Canon would lower prices of two cameras. Good Job!

I mean seriously, Canon always lowers prices of its cameras over the lifecycle of the camera.

Well then, why would that not apply to the RP as well?

it's Canon's normal spring cycle for rebates, don't read too much into it.

There are some cameras with some other pretty massive sales on right now.

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,139
Re: It means the RP will selling below...
3

Silvex wrote:

...$1000 sooner than I expected. Great news for those who may be considering it.

I don't think so.

Last quarter their Imaging division Operating Profit Margin was a miniscule 2.7% , and Canon wants to raise it back into the double digits. Lowering the price of the RP to below $1,000 goes against that goal. If it's not selling well, Canon can just lower production.

Ljosaa New Member • Posts: 23
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

I friend of mine was looking for a mirrorless system starting from scratch as his Nikon DX lenses had too low value to be a deciding factor. His budget was max $3500.

He made a quite throughout investigation with both full frame and crop sensor options involving discussions with Norway's largest retailers and in-shop testing.

What struck me is that for full frame cameras he received no recommendations of the new Canon R system. The Nikon Z6 w/24-70f4 was considered a better value compared to either of the two Canon R cameras w/24-105f4. The Sony A7III w/24-105f4 was recommended as the best overall solution albeit more expensive than the Nikon one. Both he and the people in the shops considered the Canon RP as an starting/intermediate solution that would likely motivate an upgrade quite soon and thus potentially could be a quite costly solution. The Canon R including lens was the most expensive solution of all even if behind Sony in the sensor, autofocus, video and IBIS department. I didn't help that the body design of the two Canon cameras did not scream "buy me" as the Fuji XT3 does either.

In the end the decision was between Sony A7III and Fuji XT3. He decided for the latter due to system size, controls, design, jpeg quality among others.

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lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,552
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

rrc1967 wrote:

WSteveP wrote:

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

One comment on this again, I think more the lack of a kit lens to be more of a problem. I don't really think lenses, in general, are a problem, but the lack of a suitable kit lens is just freaking odd.

Well... not so odd actually. It only seems like it. There is a bit of a shock affect with these low priced FF cameras. Traditionally if you got a 6D or 5DIII you would get the 24-105 f4 or the 24-70 f4 as a kit with it. Both of them are L lenses are are generally not the same as the APS-C kit lenses. Nikon essentially did the same.

It is sony that has the cheap kit lens (that is nothing to write home about) in the form of the 28-70 variable aperture lens.

Enter the RP with a 1300 price tag and suddenly the 24-105 f4 seems over priced for a kit lens at 1.1k.

Essentially people need to take a step back and have a look at the logical budget kit lens option. And that is the RP with the adapter and the EF 24-105 f3.5-5.6 IS STM lens, which goes for $600 and performs like native. Considering that most consumers use just the kit lens they get the camera with, permanently leaving the adapter and lens on the body is pretty much the same as if the lens was native RF mount in the first place. 
But yes... canon should very much consider releasing a RF 24-105 f3.5-5.6 kit lens. Because of sony there is the association that non-native-mount lens = performance issues, which isn't the case with the RF mount and adapter (at least not an issue up to 400 mm).

jay-A Regular Member • Posts: 291
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
3

lawny13 wrote:

Because of sony there is the association that non-native-mount lens = performance issues, which isn't the case with the RF mount and adapter (at least not an issue up to 400 mm).

While I agree that Canon probably has the most seamless solution for adapted EF there’s still no getting around the fact that EF lenses are not optimal from a size and optical quality point of view, because of the long flange. So people are probably right to hold back their purchase until a better RF solution comes along.

lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,552
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

jay-A wrote:

lawny13 wrote:

Because of sony there is the association that non-native-mount lens = performance issues, which isn't the case with the RF mount and adapter (at least not an issue up to 400 mm).

While I agree that Canon probably has the most seamless solution for adapted EF there’s still no getting around the fact that EF lenses are not optimal from a size and optical quality point of view, because of the long flange. So people are probably right to hold back their purchase until a better RF solution comes along.

A lot of the modern EF lenses seem to be on par and in some cases better than the MILC options. Like the 24-70 L (lastest) and the 70-200 L (lastest) etc. 
However... I do agree with you but regarding something else, which I found out when considering the 70-200 EF. I figured after all that with it adapted it is about the same size as the FE on sony (but canon surprised me with the size of the RF version, but that is on another note). 
What point for waiting for native lenses, to me at least, was when I found out about the High Speed Display setting. It makes a noticeable difference when shooting moving subjects. The fact is that it is only available with RF lenses. Due to this I decided to put off any purchases except cheap lenses, 100 L macro (since it isn't exactly a lens for any kind of sports), and manual lenses for native RF lenses. Expecially the likes of the 70-200 which I hope to use for moving targets as well as portraiture. 
But my initial point was, that if one wants to go down the budget path, which was a point here, going EF lenses makes sense. Cause you can't exactly expect current EF lens prices for newly released RF lenses. If you go 2nd hand in particular you can pick up a few use them till the RF ones come out and sell it at little to no loss.

diness Veteran Member • Posts: 3,238
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
17

I wouldn't be super concerned about it at this point if I were a Canon user.  That said, there were many on this forum that thought that Canon entering the market would mean Sony's quick demise, and this does show that it was probably a little premature to wave the victory flags.  Of course, many in the Sony forums will probably look at these figures and chuckle at Canon's expense and come up with their predictions for Canon's demise, which is also premature.

What I honestly don't understand on these forums is why we're so desperate for our camera maker to outsell the others and put them out of business?  Canon owners should be excited that Sony isn't going to fold all of a sudden.  Sony has put tremendous pressure on Canon to innovate.  Canon likely wouldn't have a full frame mirrorless right now if it weren't for Sony's mirrorless sales.  And Sony users should be glad that Canon and Nikon have gotten into the market to further push Sony as well.

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TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,161
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
1

I talked to 2 stores owners in southern California

both told me that they almost never receive any inquiries about the EOS RP cameras

they are considered "clunkers" - very poor releases that are inferior to the other options

this business that you get less for more money can only work for so long - at some point the brand name loses its luster ...

Lisa Horton
Lisa Horton Contributing Member • Posts: 634
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
2

diness wrote:

Sony has put tremendous pressure on Canon to innovate. Canon likely wouldn't have a full frame mirrorless right now if it weren't for Sony's mirrorless sales. And Sony users should be glad that Canon and Nikon have gotten into the market to further push Sony as well.

I've handled Sony bodies in stores, wasn't impressed or pleased with the ergonomics and feel, it's such a subjective thing.  But I agree that Sony's success in MILC probably kind of lit a fire under Canon, and I doubt we would have had a $1300 FF MILC from Canon by early 2019 if not for Sony and that fire.   Love my camera, thanks Sony! 

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Peak freak Contributing Member • Posts: 507
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan
3

Lisa Horton wrote:

diness wrote:

Sony has put tremendous pressure on Canon to innovate. Canon likely wouldn't have a full frame mirrorless right now if it weren't for Sony's mirrorless sales. And Sony users should be glad that Canon and Nikon have gotten into the market to further push Sony as well.

I've handled Sony bodies in stores, wasn't impressed or pleased with the ergonomics and feel, it's such a subjective thing. But I agree that Sony's success in MILC probably kind of lit a fire under Canon, and I doubt we would have had a $1300 FF MILC from Canon by early 2019 if not for Sony and that fire. Love my camera, thanks Sony!

Interesting point. I am a long time Canon user and have a lingering desire to keep using them. They make good cameras and great lenses.

But..., Compared to Sony and their technology, Canon have fallen off the pace somewhat. I have some (unproven) doubts about owning Sony gear, but at the same time have doubts that Canon have tried hard enough to keep their customers. [I photograph landscapes and feel Canon aren't that interested in providing competitively priced high res bodies - fair enough from a market point of view, but if I was into 4k video they don't make it a slam dunk either, and so on].

So, that leaves Sony, who I'm not entirely sure about, but with cutting edge tech and development, and Canon with tried and true designs but either; 'lazy' development, or compromised technology (eg. processing speed).

I think I have PTSD over what Canon expected me to pay for the 6D2, and in line with the thread, unless a small, light FF body like the RP has small, light lenses available, it is rather pointless to me.

Part of me feels like Sony deserves my money, not Canon.

mcslsk Veteran Member • Posts: 5,093
Re: Canon EOS RP sales nosedive in Japan

WSteveP wrote:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-rp-sales-nosedive-in-japan

Article blames lack of native lenses. However given the compatability of EF lenses (with adapter) I'm not sure that would be the reason.

I wonder how sales are in north America and Europe.

Comments?

https://www.canonwatch.com/world-press-photo-2019-winners-used-canon-and-nikon-a-few-fuji-sony-and-leica-insignificant/

Canon will need to get the transition of their core customers, i.e. those who use their cameras to make a living, right. All else is peanuts. The R is a good start.

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