So, the E-M5 III is coming at end of summer....

If it's any consolation to you, they don't want my money either. Kind of endearing, really, when everyone else is just about gimme, gimme, gimme.

It's true that Olympus are theoretically capable of updating their sensors. History shows, however, that they tend to milk their sensors to the last drop and then some. Case in point: their low- and midrange product line-ups feature sensors that are by now seven years old. Also not encouraging is the fact the their new everything-but-the-kitchen-sink model, the E-M1X, has everything but a new sensor.

glassoholic wrote:

Jonas Palm wrote:

glassoholic wrote:

The EM5.3 could be Olympus recharging the m43 market... a new BSI 24mp PDAF sensor with an Olympus surprise or two in features (cant think what but if I could it wouldn't be a surprise)... and most importantly a killer price. Good luck with that Olympus!

10% higher linear resolution falls firmly into the "don’t even bother" category.

It's still 10% better than doing nothing new at all and the retail expectation from many (most?) is that 24mp is better than 20... so maybe to the enthusiasts not much better, but in terms of sales success, probably quite important.

I find it curious that moving from 20mp to 24mp is now considered a marked improvement, but that the increase from 16mp to 20mp was considered by many, in years past, to be insignificant and have no impact on sales.

I suspect that like always there are some that find it easier to find reasons NOT to buy something (or anything) than to put forth what specs  they would commit to buying...... and at what price. For me, a  sensor as good as the one in my Pen F or E-M 1 II, more accurate C-AF than my Pen F, but not as fast as in my E-M1 II, and an OLED EVF would get my immediate attention. An intro price at anything less than $1,499 would have my name in the pre-order list.

There, that is my commitment, anyone else care to make theirs (with a commitment to a purchase price)?

LarsPolarBear wrote:

mg_k wrote:

You are committing to a system, not a body

... a system with increasingly heavy / bulky and over priced lenses as well as underwater casings and ports (relevant for me). So no, the system is less and less convincing...

They haven't stopped making the old small light lenses have they?

I LarsPolarBear wrote:

Olympus is not there to please anyone, they are in business to make money and in a larger scheme to provide employment. Therefore, they have to make products that sell at a price that is expectable to the market in general and that covers their costs. Which they have been very bad at in the past years as the losses demonstrate.

Marty4650 wrote:

When Olympus creates a very high end camera for sports/action shooters (the EM1X) some people are outraged, and say they have missed the plot by making a camera that is too big and too expensive. Even though it is still smaller and cheaper than similar cameras for this niche, and probably has a huge profit margin for them.

The profit margin is hugely dependent on the number they sell, since the components are all relatively cheap, its the moulds and factory setup that costs money and its mostly fixed cost or sunk cost. Considering that they already offer a discount of US$500, it doesn't feel like that there is massive demand...

When Olympus announces that it will discontinue a three year old model that never sold very well (the Pen-F), despite it being very popular with a small group of users, then some people are outraged. They will demand that Olympus keep producing cameras that lose money for them.

Well, again, perhaps it was just over priced and too big for what it was able to do...

When Olympus announces an update of their MOST popular mid range camera series (the EM5 III), other people are now outraged because Olympus still can't seem to make a smaller sensor perform better than a larger one. Or... at least as good if you pixel peep.

I don't think that the expectations are, that the m43 sensor needs to perform at par with APS-C or FF, but the expectation is that we see some development, and that includes the AF as well as low light and DR performance at higher pixel count. The other manufacturers have shown the way, it would be stupid to ignore what is out there because one is fully fixated on Oly products (not suggesting that is your case). Furthermore, Oly has brought this on itself, by making larger and larger products, instead of creating smart solution to miniaturise products (e.g. the path of collapsable lenses has been totally abandoned for monster PRO lenses). Therefore, its clients and potential clients will automatically look at larger sensor products like the APS-C models of the competition.

OK, I’ve read your complaints. Now how about you tell us what this yet-to-be-announced E-M5 III would have to have, spec wise, to get your endorsement, and at what price would you commit to buy it. Be specific, maybe comparing it to the PL7 in your gear list. And, be sure to put a price on it.

LarsPolarBear wrote:

So, the E-M5 III (most likely) is coming at end of summer according to 43rumors.com (https://www.43rumors.com/), but is it really worth the wait...

Like many forum members, I have been waiting for an upgraded/updated E-M5 III for some time, specially since the E-PL9 and E-M10 III have been dumbed down.

However, I am asking myself more and more if it is really worth waiting? The best we can expect is that Olympus finally puts the 20MP PDAF sensor from the E-M1 II & E-M1X into the M5 III with some additional gimmicks, but nothing earth shattering on the DR front or spectacular AF like the new Sony a6400... ...and that is the best case scenario, considering that Oly's marketing team seems totally out of touch with reality, they might even go for the interior of the PEN F with lousy AF and slow operations... If history is any guidance they will price it above the a6400 and the Fuji X-T30... and then tell everybody that there is no market below the PRO level...

Well, anyway... thought you might want to know that our wait will be over in 4-5 months...

Lars

While we don't know that the M5II is what will be introduced, presuming the rumor is true, that would be great news. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I will wait for it with the price likely to exceed the M1 II's right now with the trade up deal, which will still be competitive and/or exceed the successor to the M5 II in some respects, or so I think.

On a more serious note, it is possible that that ship has sailed already. Olympus is hemorrhaging customers and common business sense has it that finding new customers is usually more difficult (i.e. expensive) than retaining them. Plus, the market is a little difficult at the moment.

Maybe the E-M1X is a sign of a new strategy to sell expensive cameras to brand loyalists. and leave the market to others. I kinda expect the m43-system to peter out eventually, like 43rd before it. Am I bothered by this? Not much, no. There'll still be cameras for the next few years, there's Panasonic and there's second-hand. And who knows how we'll be taking pictures in ten years time?

grcolts wrote:

. Hopefully, a little larger grip and better AF. The camera needs to be kept on the smaller size, not beefed up.

Aren t those two sentences contradicting each other a little bit ?

Personally I am not sure majority of EM5 users would like a larger grip

H

NextShowForSure wrote:

wolfie wrote:

mg_k wrote:

and over priced lenses as well

There are bargains to be had. Just don't get sucked into so-called "PRO" lens from Olympus.

Yeah get the Zuiko Pro - some the best glass on the market, let alone M43.

I'm totally happy with just the 12-40 Pro and the 40-150 Pro on my E-M5 MkII. Still plenty smaller (and cheaper) than any equivalent from other brands - very well sealed and both of my copies have survived for 3 years in rain, sand, saltwater. Fast AF. Close focus to near macro level. Manual pull-focus. Oh, and great image sharpness from full open aperture across the frame.

If you want tiny lenses then you buy those, but then they aren't "Pro" gear :))

A totally unprofessional but adequate shrunken 12-40 would be nice though for less demanding cash strapped beings like myself. The message will be lost here though I think.

Lumix do a f3.5 12-60 that is quite good and probably half the price of the 12-40 Pro

LarsPolarBear wrote:

So, the E-M5 III (most likely) is coming at end of summer according to 43rumors.com (https://www.43rumors.com/), but is it really worth the wait...

Like many forum members, I have been waiting for an upgraded/updated E-M5 III for some time, specially since the E-PL9 and E-M10 III have been dumbed down.

However, I am asking myself more and more if it is really worth waiting?

Lars

Is this another way of saying there's very little need to upgrade cameras these days? If so I agree.

Greg.

mg_k wrote:

NCV wrote:

The EM5III needs to be something special.

Yea you know very well that it will be everything but special.

Why? Olympus did a great job upping E-M1 with Mark II. They brought MFT to a new high with that camera. They repeated that feat with E-M1X.

Oly just need to be realistic with their pricing against all competitions to have a fighting chance.

That implies price in the 1300-1500 EUR range.

E.g. Fuji X-T30 is $899 USD

Olympus competition to X-T30 would be E-M10 Mark IV, not E-M5 Mark III. The latter should be competing with X-T3.

, price the EM5 III at $799

Not going to happen, unless E-M5 III would be an E-M10 III replacement.

and it might just attract some new comers.

There are many ways to attract new customers. And I would argue that in current market, price is probably one of the those that you'd rather not chase (as a manufacturer).

Anything higher will only sell to existing m43 users = slow death.

It's just a matter of features vs price. I don't see a reason for a camera with a feature set of X-T3/X-H1 to be selling as if it had a feature set of X-T30.

Oh please, this is just a bit too hysterical, even for my taste.

And I don't quite understand where this angst comes from. The replacement for E-M5 II is basically going to come almost 2 years later than everyone expected (which should be Feb 2018 going by the regular 3 year cycle). Does that not make you think?

Seriously, ask yourself. Why did Olympus stretch the release cycle so much for arguably the most important camera in the lineup? So that they could sell PEN-F in E-M5 body? Seriously?

Give Olympus some credit. They scored a nice hit with E-M1 II and brought Micro 4/3 to a whole new level with E-M1X. Assuming that they are absolutely clueless and will massively drop the ball with the next E-M5 is a bit hysteric.

Astrotripper wrote:

mg_k wrote:

NCV wrote:

The EM5III needs to be something special.

Yea you know very well that it will be everything but special.

Why? Olympus did a great job upping E-M1 with Mark II. They brought MFT to a new high with that camera. They repeated that feat with E-M1X.

Oly just need to be realistic with their pricing against all competitions to have a fighting chance.

That implies price in the 1300-1500 EUR range.

E.g. Fuji X-T30 is $899 USD

Olympus competition to X-T30 would be E-M10 Mark IV, not E-M5 Mark III. The latter should be competing with X-T3.

, price the EM5 III at $799

Not going to happen, unless E-M5 III would be an E-M10 III replacement.

Interesting  notion. Maybe with the E-M1 II at the sub $1500 Mark we really don’t need a 5.3. An upspec E-M10.4 in the $1K range might get my credit card to jump. I fear that Olympus will down spec the 5.3 so as not to impede the sales of the E-M1 II, better a super E-M10 than a wimpy E-M5, IMO.

and it might just attract some new comers.

There are many ways to attract new customers. And I would argue that in current market, price is probably one of the those that you'd rather not chase (as a manufacturer).

Anything higher will only sell to existing m43 users = slow death.

It's just a matter of features vs price. I don't see a reason for a camera with a feature set of X-T3/X-H1 to be selling as if it had a feature set of X-T30.

LarsPolarBear wrote:

So, the E-M5 III (most likely) is coming at end of summer according to 43rumors.com (https://www.43rumors.com/), but is it really worth the wait...Well, anyway... thought you might want to know that our wait will be over in 4-5 months...

Ironically enough, I went to Olympus because my first choice camera was delayed by a year.

gary0319 wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Oly just need to be realistic with their pricing against all competitions to have a fighting chance.

That implies price in the 1300-1500 EUR range.

E.g. Fuji X-T30 is $899 USD

Olympus competition to X-T30 would be E-M10 Mark IV, not E-M5 Mark III. The latter should be competing with X-T3.

, price the EM5 III at $799

Not going to happen, unless E-M5 III would be an E-M10 III replacement.

Interesting notion. Maybe with the E-M1 II at the sub $1500 Mark we really don’t need a 5.3.

Alas, it's still far from that price. Current retail prices here are in the 1600-1650 EUR range. It dropped slightly below 1500 EUR only for a few flash sales. So I don't quite see that becoming the regular price anytime soon.

An upspec E-M10.4 in the $1K range might get my credit card to jump.

I guess that would be E-M5 Mark II with a 20mp sensor? Well, that would be confusing

I fear that Olympus will down spec the 5.3 so as not to impede the sales of the E-M1 II

And I suspect they might go the opposite way and simply differentiate it further from E-M1 line (and competition). At this point in time, that makes more sense than traditional low/mid/high distinction.

, better a super E-M10 than a wimpy E-M5, IMO.