So, the E-M5 III is coming at end of summer....

As I suspected, people think m43 has to equal or beat APSC image quality.

What people have to accept is m43 remaining about 0.7 EV behind APSC, and maybe a few MP behind as well. Then it sells itself on other stuff. Fantastic IS, fantastic lens range at several size and price categories, some increasingly-capable multi-exposure tricks. Meeting true needs instead of fantasy wishlists.

It's about accepting the physical truth of the sensor size, and still wanting it. Not this "surprise me or else" stuff.

If that is not where some buyers are at, then m43 is the wrong system for them. To those people, I say go. Don't hang around trash-talking the format 100 times each year.

Well said.

In short: I have doubts that it's worth the wait for you.

Rumour has it that the new camera will be announced at the end of summer. Availability might stretch well into autumn. As for the specifications of a possible E-M5 III, one can only speculate. I personally expect the same sensor as the Pen F, no pdaf and a price above Sony's and Fuji's latest models. Groundbreaking innovation is not out of the question, but seems unlikely, in my opinion.

If you are interested in the latest and greatest in camera technology, you might have to look elsewhere, I fear. But for me, there's an upside to this, too. Olympus's lack of innovation has saved me from buying new cameras that I really don't need. My E-M10 is five years old by now, but I have yet to see a compelling upgrade option. So I just enjoy what I have.

LarsPolarBear wrote:

So, the E-M5 III (most likely) is coming at end of summer according to 43rumors.com (https://www.43rumors.com/), but is it really worth the wait...

Like many forum members, I have been waiting for an upgraded/updated E-M5 III for some time, specially since the E-PL9 and E-M10 III have been dumbed down.

However, I am asking myself more and more if it is really worth waiting? The best we can expect is that Olympus finally puts the 20MP PDAF sensor from the E-M1 II & E-M1X into the M5 III with some additional gimmicks, but nothing earth shattering on the DR front or spectacular AF like the new Sony a6400... ...and that is the best case scenario, considering that Oly's marketing team seems totally out of touch with reality, they might even go for the interior of the PEN F with lousy AF and slow operations... If history is any guidance they will price it above the a6400 and the Fuji X-T30...

… if the Fuji and Sony have the DR and Autofocus you want PLUS lack the GIMMICKS the E-M5III will have

… what exactly are you waiting for?

End your misery...you've already answered your own "question".

Cheers.

and then tell everybody that there is no market below the PRO level...

Well, anyway... thought you might want to know that our wait will be over in 4-5 months...

Lars

All it needs to have for me to buy it, is on sensor PDAF like the EM1, and a couple of custom modes on the dial (loose the art filters if you need to), also like the EM1.

Don't need pro capture and I don't need hand held sensor shift hi-res, although obviously both would be 'nice to haves'. Don't care a jot about video.  I think the 16mp sensor in my mki is fine, so I've no desire for a big pixel count upgrade.

It won't have either PDAF or custom dial modes though I suspect, and I do really want those.

I think it'll have some update to CDAF that they will claim is revolutionary, and no change to the near useless mysets.

Their choice as a business of course. But I can see me waiting for the EM1 mkiii rather than getting the EM5 iii when it finally arrives.

Kristoff_EM5 wrote:

All it needs to have for me to buy it, is on sensor PDAF like the EM1, and a couple of custom modes on the dial (loose the art filters if you need to), also like the EM1.

Don't need pro capture and I don't need hand held sensor shift hi-res, although obviously both would be 'nice to haves'. Don't care a jot about video. I think the 16mp sensor in my mki is fine, so I've no desire for a big pixel count upgrade.

It won't have either PDAF or custom dial modes though I suspect, and I do really want those.

I think it'll have some update to CDAF that they will claim is revolutionary, and no change to the near useless mysets.

Their choice as a business of course. But I can see me waiting for the EM1 mkiii rather than getting the EM5 iii when it finally arrives.

Given you can pick up an E-M1.1 in as new condition with almost zero shutter count for less than £300 right now... why haven't you gone down that route to quench your thirst for PDAF?

If the sensor in the Mk2 isn't enough of an improvement to tempt you then surely the Mk1 at the right price is?

Without the HLD-7 grip the E-M1.1 is actually tiny. With a small native lens you are actually not any bigger than the E-M5 (the 17mm 1.8 without hood protrudes just a hair more than the integrated grip). Add a half decent leather case if you want to give it a retro look/some protection and you are good to go. I love my Martin Duke case:

* Borrowed from My Insta page hence the [Edited] flag.

Juurikas wrote:

LarsPolarBear wrote:

, considering that Oly's marketing team seems totally out of touch with reality, they might even go for the interior of the PEN F with lousy AF and slow operations...

PEN-F AF wasn't slow but extremely fast, and it had fast operations like E-M5 Mk2.

I aree. Also, with the four MySets on the top plate and the front knob I can change my shooting parameters very quickly indeed.

Peter Del

I've discounted the EM1.1 as the sensor isn't as good as the one in my EM5.  I am tempted with a used Em1.2 though.

There's just something about the size and feel of the EM5 I really like, I'm waiting to see if I'm wrong and if the Mkiii does get PDAF before picking something else up.

Kristoff_EM5 wrote:

I've discounted the EM1.1 as the sensor isn't as good as the one in my EM5. I am tempted with a used Em1.2 though.

There's just something about the size and feel of the EM5 I really like, I'm waiting to see if I'm wrong and if the Mkiii does get PDAF before picking something else up.

I'm confused... the E-M5 has a better sensor yet it doesn't actually have the PDAF you are after? I would have figured a sensor that ticked all the boxes would be better.

I moved from an E-M5 to E-M1 last year and honestly cannot spot a difference in output quality, the images in real world (not lab tests) use are to my eye identical. The usability of the cameras is night vs day, with the E-M1 being superior in pretty much every regard (except size if you prefer to not have a grip).

I've never used an EM1.1 but all the things I've read and been told seem to suggest the EM5 sensor is a noticeable improvement. If I was going up in size to EM levels I'd get the EM1.2 I think, for the few hundred extra it would cost.

I don't need any better quality than the output of my EM5 gives me, but I do long for better AF tracking. I like to take seascape shots and when I'm down by the sea there's often birds and other sea life in the area.... and I'd like to take decent shots of those with my 75mm- 300mm II lens. However the EM5 is useless in that scenario if the thing is not standing still. If it had PDAF I reckon it'd be the perfect camera for me. Especially as most of my outings involve a decent walk to get there in the first place so the size is a big bonus.

I know what will happen if I move to the EM1.2 as well, GAS will kick in and the next thing will be a grip, then the pro lenses, before I know it I'd be taking my EM5 and kit zooms out instead as the weight has become a pain.

mg_k wrote:

and over priced lenses as well

There are bargains to be had. Just don't get sucked into so-called "PRO" lens from Olympus.

Yeah get the Zuiko Pro - some the best glass on the market, let alone M43.

I'm totally happy with just the 12-40 Pro and the 40-150 Pro on my E-M5 MkII. Still plenty smaller (and cheaper) than any equivalent from other brands - very well sealed and both of my copies have survived for 3 years in rain, sand, saltwater. Fast AF. Close focus to near macro level. Manual pull-focus. Oh, and great image sharpness from full open aperture across the frame.

If you want  tiny lenses then you buy those, but then they aren't "Pro" gear :))

NCV wrote:

The EM5 fiasco reminds me of Nikon's D300 fiasco where a top selling camera line was not kept up to date.

apples and oranges

With a D300 that was falling apart through heavy use, I was tempted over to M43 when Olympus brought out the then revolutionary EM5.

It seems Olympus have badly lost the way with the steady flow of bloatware products at the expense of compact items that make more sense to most users.

speculation

If I want big cameras and fast lenses that just fight the DoF advantage of FF, I might as well just buy a Z6/7 or a Sony and be done with it.

I think you should

Those mirror less FF cameras are surprisingly lightweight and compact.

Yes but there is more to it than just weight an size

At least the bigger sensor will give me some IQ advantages.

in some instances yes , but not always a plus

I love M43 for its compact size and low weight, which make it a winner for hiking and travel. Surly the most common usage of cameras.

For you maybe .. again do not generalize your case

I see that camera sales are plummeting. I see a lot of heavy discounting; the Panasonic S1 is being offered with a €600 discount already where I live.

and where is that ?

The bloated EM1X is being heavily discounted too I believe in North America.

a belief not a fact

The EM5III needs to be something special.

no matter what the specs , some will like it , some will whine on and on about some spec it won t have

Harold

When Olympus creates a very high end camera for sports/action shooters (the EM1X) some people are outraged, and say they have missed the plot by making a camera that is too big and too expensive. Even though it is still smaller and cheaper than similar cameras for this niche, and probably has a huge profit margin for them.

When Olympus announces that it will discontinue a three year old model that never sold very well (the Pen-F), despite it being very popular with a small group of users, then some people are outraged. They will demand that Olympus keep producing cameras that lose money for them.

When Olympus announces an update of their MOST popular mid range camera series (the EM5 III), other people are now outraged because Olympus still can't seem to make a smaller sensor perform better than a larger one. Or... at least as good if you pixel peep.