Pany 12-35 vs 12-60, 3rd party alternative

Hi,

I am getting a Pany GH4 next week and am a bit excited. I have been shooting wtih a Sony RX100M4, so the Pany represents some avenue to wider choices. I'd love to have a camera which I can put the right lens to it for the purpose.

But before that, I'd need to pick one that is suitable for me before worrying about the addition. The camera I bought comes with a 14-42 kit lens. I will use it to get myself familiar with the camera, but eventually, I think will replace it with something a little robust.

I am using the GH4 primarily for video only.

I am having my eyes on the 12-35 f/2.8 (version i or ii), or the 12-60 f/2,8-4. The latter offers a better range, while the first one has a fix f/2.8. Any comment and experience on this two.

I am also wondering if a 3rd party lens like a Sigma is a viable alternative. Would a Sigma offer OIS and AF/AE on the GH4?

Please educate me.

I have the 12-35 /2.8 and the 12-60 3.5-5.6 not the PL version. The 12-35 was my go to lens for years. I gota G85 with the 12-60 not expecting much but it turned out to be my favorite lens even though slower than the 12-35

The extra reach and close focus ability was quite a draw and I found this lens Tobe preferable to either the 12-35 or the 14-140. Regarding the latter, the 2 mm difference on the wide end was huge even outdoors in non confined non urban areas. I was surprised!

So for m we the 12-60 (great you can afford the PL 12-60!) And a fast 1.4-1.8 prime of your choice will get you a nice light kit for day and night. I currently use the PL 15/1.7 but also really like the old slow noisy 20/1.7 and you have we your pick of 17 and 25's including the voightlanders

There is no third party alternative.  Oly 12-40 is a possibility

If you have the version II of 14~42 (product code HSF 1442A) instead of version I (HFS 014042), probably it is one of the best consumer grade standard kit lens of Panny. It is also DUAL IS compatible for any future Panny body upgrade.

The others are, good as 14~42, the OIS only 14~45, followed closely by 14~42PZ (both not Dual IS compatible), then 12~32 (the pancake).

14~42 PZ is specially designed for video (also a 45~175 PZ). 14~140 mk-II has similar IQ to the best of the above.

Except the pancake design 12~32 and 14~42PZ, all of the above are in similar size.

I have 12~35 f/2.8, it is a good lens, constant 2.8 and is very sharp at center. But it has soft edges wide open, need to stop down to f/3.5~4 to match with the above consumer grade lenses. If I don't need to have f/2.8 ready anytime, I shall prefer my old 14~45...

Not have the PL 12~60, but heard it has similar IQ to 12~60 f/3.5~5.6 except f/2.8 on wide open. According to the owners, the non PL 12~60 should have IQ similar to 12~32, so should be a good lens. I am also tempted to try one (the Leica version is slightly big to me) because of the more usable zoom range than my current 2 standard zooms, the 12~35 f/2.8 (for regular use) and 12~32 (compact setup).

My 2 cents.

alcelc wrote:

If you have the version II of 14~42 (product code HSF 1442A) instead of version I (HFS 014042), probably it is one of the best consumer grade standard kit lens of Panny. It is also DUAL IS compatible for any future Panny body upgrade.

I haven't received the lens yet. From the auction listing picture, it seems to be a ver. II. I will definitely try it out while I am looking for the other two lenses.

You don't think the newer Leica 12-60 is better than the older version, at least for the price anyway? I think I can get a used f/3.5-5.6 version for around $200.

alcelc wrote:

If you have the version II of 14~42 (product code HSF 1442A) instead of version I (HFS 014042), probably it is one of the best consumer grade standard kit lens of Panny. It is also DUAL IS compatible for any future Panny body upgrade.

The camera came. The lens is indeed the 1442A version. I am very surprised that it is so light weight. I will spend the next week learning all the functions and take it out for a ride.

DMKAlex wrote:

alcelc wrote:

If you have the version II of 14~42 (product code HSF 1442A) instead of version I (HFS 014042), probably it is one of the best consumer grade standard kit lens of Panny. It is also DUAL IS compatible for any future Panny body upgrade.

I haven't received the lens yet. From the auction listing picture, it seems to be a ver. II. I will definitely try it out while I am looking for the other two lenses.

You don't think the newer Leica 12-60 is better than the older version, at least for the price anyway? I think I can get a used f/3.5-5.6 version for around $200.

I had the 12-60 3.5-5.6 (albeit on an Olympus Pen-F) and loved the range but ended up replacing it with the PL version. Which IMHO - no technical testing - is sharper, has better contrast and is obviously a faster lens. But it is noticeably bigger and heavier (again in M43 terms heavier/lighter is a relative term but I was using it on the Pen-F which is smaller than your GH-4) but I still feel the increase in price is worth it.

Will you be doing indoor, outdoor or both for video?

If doing any indoor, are you doing video from a distance or up close?

For video you can't really adjust you shutter speed to help lighting as you need to set it to accommodate your frame rate.

For indoor video

• Unless you can flood the area with light to give you really good lighting then you will likely need faster lenses.     If you get a faster lens then distance comes into play because if  you are too close then your DOF is going to likely be too shallow to make the video useful for anything but a close up of your subject
• Once you pick your aperture for best light and DOF you have only these two items to make sure your video is exposed correctly, that is, it's not dark and you'll need to bring it up in post which will bring up noise in dark areas.
  • Add more light    and if you can't add more light then
  • Set your ISO higher   which will send you to the noisier end of recording

In summary:

• Set your Shutter speed for your Frame Rate
• Use whatever lenses you have available to get the desired:
  • Width of the scene
  • DOF which might be adjusted by physical distance or stopping down your lens
• Set your exposure with the only things left which are:
  • Add more light
  • Raise the ISO

You will need to consider your answers to the two questions at the top to help guide you in selecting a lens.

All that said, I find that for indoor shooting, even if I add light that my Panny 12-35 F2.8 lens is the most generically useful.  I have faster primes to help but then I need to be further away.  The zoom of the 12-35 give you more flexibility of where you can stand, a not too shallow DOF usually and a constant F2.8 to help the lighting.

Mark

DMKAlex wrote:

Hi,

I am getting a Pany GH4 next week and am a bit excited. I have been shooting wtih a Sony RX100M4, so the Pany represents some avenue to wider choices. I'd love to have a camera which I can put the right lens to it for the purpose.

But before that, I'd need to pick one that is suitable for me before worrying about the addition. The camera I bought comes with a 14-42 kit lens. I will use it to get myself familiar with the camera, but eventually, I think will replace it with something a little robust.

I am using the GH4 primarily for video only.

I am having my eyes on the 12-35 f/2.8 (version i or ii), or the 12-60 f/2,8-4. The latter offers a better range, while the first one has a fix f/2.8. Any comment and experience on this two.

I am also wondering if a 3rd party lens like a Sigma is a viable alternative. Would a Sigma offer OIS and AF/AE on the GH4?

Please educate me.

Generally speaking, a constant aperture lens should be better for video than one whose aperture changes when zooming in/out.

WhiteBeard wrote:

DMKAlex wrote:

Hi,

I am getting a Pany GH4 next week and am a bit excited. I have been shooting wtih a Sony RX100M4, so the Pany represents some avenue to wider choices. I'd love to have a camera which I can put the right lens to it for the purpose.

But before that, I'd need to pick one that is suitable for me before worrying about the addition. The camera I bought comes with a 14-42 kit lens. I will use it to get myself familiar with the camera, but eventually, I think will replace it with something a little robust.

I am using the GH4 primarily for video only.

I am having my eyes on the 12-35 f/2.8 (version i or ii), or the 12-60 f/2,8-4. The latter offers a better range, while the first one has a fix f/2.8. Any comment and experience on this two.

I am also wondering if a 3rd party lens like a Sigma is a viable alternative. Would a Sigma offer OIS and AF/AE on the GH4?

Please educate me.

Generally speaking, a constant aperture lens should be better for video than one whose aperture changes when zooming in/out.

I agree with you. However, I don't zoom while filming though. I may change the focal length after a take.

DMKAlex wrote:

Hi,

I am having my eyes on the 12-35 f/2.8 (version i or ii), or the 12-60 f/2,8-4. The latter offers a better range, while the first one has a fix f/2.8. Any comment and experience on this two.

I have no experience with the 12-35, but find the Olympus 12-40 quite good between 12-30mm. BQ is better than the PL series, however, it is quite heavy.

A friend uses the PL12-60 with beautiful results, sharp, good color contrast and great even near MFD. However, I just had ordered one and sent it back, because it was terrible at 45mm. So there still seems to be some big sample variation. Make sure you buy at a place with good return policy.

Here a comparison with the Panasonic Lumix 3.5-5.6/14-45 wide open (left side), the PL 12-60 at F4 (right side).

Center

bottom right corner

Peter

As I learn more about these Pany lenes, I am starting to wonder if the PL series 12-60mm is worth that much more money for a 1/2 f/stop, and the name "Leica".

It seems the lower version with f/3.5-5.6 seems to have very good rating in IQ. The lenses is 1/4 of lb lighter (making it easy on my arm with the gimbal). And $400 saving is pretty substantial.

Comment?

I suspect you plan to shoot video in well lit environments bases on your selection of camera and lenses.  And I think you're on the right track.

Do you have plans to shoot 4K? or video in lower light conditions?  That would change up a lot of lens choices, and camera choice.

I have had the 12-35 for several years and have loved it.  It is a wonderful lens.  When I got my G9, I got the PL12-60.  Since getting the 12-60, I have not used the 12-35.  I probably should put it on ebay because I no longer need it.

I have the mk I 12-35 and the 12-60 Leica. I tend to use the 12-60 quite a bit more (especially for video) as it has a nice overlap in reach with lenses like the 35-100 and so you don't get situations where you keep wanting to change lens. The exception is if it's quite dark and there's subject motion so IS doesn't help.

BTW I feel the 12-35 has a more convenient/common filter thread diameter and so might be a consideration, depending what you have.

C Sean wrote:

I have both the PL 12-60mm 2.8-4 and the 12-35mm 2.8.

Overall the 12-60 is a good walk around lens and is a good option if you're not looking to be purchasing many lenses. This is my opinion but the biggest negative towards this lens is the barrel distortion at the wide end which I find to be worse than the 12-35mm 2.8 hence why I will be keeping the 12-35mm instead of selling it.

Maybe you should indicate if your camera is Oly or Panny. The latter normally has internal correction for distortion and the OP mentions buying a GH4... mind you, i have neither lens but find very little barrel distorsion with my UWA 7-14.

The reason why I bought the 12-60 is I found the 12-35mm focal range to be too restrictive and needs to be backed up by another lens like the 35-100mm 2.8.

C Sean wrote:

I have both the PL 12-60mm 2.8-4 and the 12-35mm 2.8.

Overall the 12-60 is a good walk around lens and is a good option if you're not looking to be purchasing many lenses. This is my opinion but the biggest negative towards this lens is the barrel distortion at the wide end which I find to be worse than the 12-35mm 2.8 hence why I will be keeping the 12-35mm instead of selling it.

The reason why I bought the 12-60 is I found the 12-35mm focal range to be too restrictive and needs to be backed up by another lens like the 35-100mm 2.8.

The 12-35 (I have the mk 1 but understand the mk II has the same optics, just different AF/OIS) has a lot of distortion at the wide end if uncorrected (5.78%) and still a noticeable amount (1.54%) after the standard m43 correction (in-camera JPEGs and most Raw tools). This makes for an interesting phenomena that if using DXO Photolab, which uses their own more sophisticated corrections, you get a noticeable wider field-of-view.

The 12-60 Leica is effectively the same at 6.13%/1.56%. Note these are all barrel distortion.

12-35 testing:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52254235