D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

Started 7 months ago | Questions
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
Re: I had the D800 and dumped it for the Z7

Spare-time photog wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

No regret whatsoever so far after five months of use. I am happy with the AF, as well as many other things, compared with the D800 it's just great, I like it a lot.

That sounds very good to me. Are you also using back button focus with AF-C?

No, I don't use AF-C and back button. Never did that, not even with the D800.

But... the next generation will be better than this on, no doubt about that. This is normal and I don't worry about it. The Z7 will serve me well for the next coming years.

You are right, the next generation will always be better (hopefully :-))

But I am in doubt if it is the right decision to invest a lot of money in the Z7 right now. The question for me is, is the Z7 such a relief (AF system, AFMA, etc.) that it is worth to buy it now. And after reading all the opinions in this thread I tend to say yes, it is.

If it is worth buying it or not is a question you have to answer on your own. For me it was worth to leave the big D800 in the shop and to exchange it for the Z7.

Btw, do you use flash? Do you see any limitations regarding the lower flash sync time?

Yes I use flash and no the sync speed does not bother me. I grew up with 1/60s which was OK for me for several decades, so 1/200s is fine. If I need faster then there is the high speed mode also.

What is not awailable is the AF assist light, but I solved that issue with this external AF assist light.

 olyflyer's gear list:olyflyer's gear list
Nikon Z7
thejohnnerparty Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

"So according to your experience the Z7 isn't able to focus in very dim light, when the D800 is still focusing (although unreliable)? As far as I remember the D800 was rated down to -2 EV and the Z7 only to -1EV without using low light AF mode."

Wow! I am shocked that the Z7 only goes -1EV. I believe that is what my D610 is capable of. Hum!

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Sony RX100
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

thejohnnerparty wrote:

"So according to your experience the Z7 isn't able to focus in very dim light, when the D800 is still focusing (although unreliable)? As far as I remember the D800 was rated down to -2 EV and the Z7 only to -1EV without using low light AF mode."

Wow! I am shocked that the Z7 only goes -1EV. I believe that is what my D610 is capable of. Hum!

...but the question is... how well you can see and compose in the dark with any DSLR? Not  very well. How well can you see and compose with the Z7? Very well and it definitely beats the D800, let alone the D610 when it comes to actual use in the dark. That's for sure.

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Nikon Z7
thejohnnerparty Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

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Sony RX100
jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,545
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

You have to turn the low light mode on.  If I recall correctly, it slows down the refresh of the EVF so that it can collect more photons between frames and thus get more data for focusing.

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John

thejohnnerparty Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

jfriend00 wrote:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

You have to turn the low light mode on. If I recall correctly, it slows down the refresh of the EVF so that it can collect more photons between frames and thus get more data for focusing.

That is the wonder of engineering - there is almost always a workaround.

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Sony RX100
jfw Contributing Member • Posts: 502
Z7 -> go for it
1

Spare-time photog wrote:

Although I followed this forum in the last months, I am quite unsure at the moment if I should buy the Z7 and sell the D800, or wait for the next generation model. Currently I am using a D800 for my amateur photography.

Go for it:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62280673

 jfw's gear list:jfw's gear list
Nikon D800 Fujifilm X-E2 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +11 more
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: I had the D800 and dumped it for the Z7

olyflyer wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

Btw, do you use flash? Do you see any limitations regarding the lower flash sync time?

Yes I use flash and no the sync speed does not bother me. I grew up with 1/60s which was OK for me for several decades, so 1/200s is fine. If I need faster then there is the high speed mode also.

What is not awailable is the AF assist light, but I solved that issue with this external AF assist light.

That device sounds interesting. Hopefully the high intensity LED is not harmful to the eye...

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

KuvaPanda wrote:

Referring to this. Seems the slower sync speed means slightly lower flash output if the flash has long flash duration. This should apply to studio lights only, for example Godox AD200 has flash duration of 1/220 (t0.1) at max power. https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4348394

Thank you for the link. At the moment I am using Yongnuo flashes: one YN685 with build in receiver, one YN568EX without and my old Canon flash, the last ones obviously with a YN622N tranceiver and a YN622N-TX controller on the camera.

I tried HSS only with the Yongnous and it worked with shutter speeds faster than 1/250s. But in the near future I want to buy an additional Godox AD400 or AD600.

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

jfriend00 wrote:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

You have to turn the low light mode on. If I recall correctly, it slows down the refresh of the EVF so that it can collect more photons between frames and thus get more data for focusing.

If the low light mode is activated the Z7 is rated down to-4EV if I remember correctly.

But I don't know how useful the EVF will be in low light mode? How big is the impact of stuttering and lagging to the usability?

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
Hasa
Hasa Senior Member • Posts: 1,080
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

Please do not sell your D800s before I have sold mine!

Have the D800 since 2012 and just pulled the trigger on Z7:

the Z7 has no more issues than D800 @ launch

"need" the 14-30mm F4s to replace my Tamron 15-30 F2.8 - mainly @weight reduction and yet super quality

need a camera where I can obliterate shutter shock up to and including 1/2000 sec

need 4K video and APS-C quality 4K is fine and will give me x 1,5 for birding @ 4K !

need stabilization and experimentation with my MC Rokkor 24, 35, 50 and 80-200 and 500mm F8 RF - for fun and maybe these are the compact lenses we need for the Z.

need stabilization for my 85mm F1.8G, 24mm F1.8G

have to get rid of a cheap old AF-D zoom 70-200mm - and unfortunately 20mm F2.8 AF-D, sigma 15mm 2.8 fisheye "AF-D" - or hope for a Kipon AF-D adapter announced for this spring - and (sob) my Tamron 45mm F1.8 that I have learned to love - unless Kipon?

who said life should be easy?

need flippy screen and excellent video and video AF for parties and vacations and family in general

not an avid birder - if so, I would get a used D500

And no there is not a quantum leap in sensor quality like when I upgraded from Sony R1 10 Mpix to D800 36MPix. More resolution and slightly more DR @ 64 iso, else more or less the same as D800

a bit more croppability and higher APS-C resolution for bugs and birds than D800

-- hide signature --

Smile and the world smiles back!

 Hasa's gear list:Hasa's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D7200 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II +22 more
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?
1

ericbowles wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

What are my main requirements?

1.) My main reason to switch is to get rid of AF fine tune/AF micro adjustments and to get precise AF all the time. This requirement is mandatory. The more I dived deeper in portraiture the more I recognised, that the focus was not nailed in a lot of pictures. I fiddled around with Reikan software to AFMA my lenses but only with limited success. So I send all my gear (the D800, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) to Nikon to check and adjust. The result is better, but sometimes the camera struggles to nail the focus. Then I bought a 85/1.8 lens and it missed the focus a lot. By the way a second lens was even worse in combination with my camera. So Nikon checked and adjusted the 85 lens, too. The results are better, but I am still not convinced, that the miss-focus plague is gone forever, as the focus problems in the past seem to be distance and brightness dependent and quite complex. At the end it is a DSLR.

You've got it wrong here. The Z6/7 and other mirrorless cameras use Phase Detect AF most of the time. In the first mirrorless cameras, Contrast Detect AF was used but it was unacceptably slow. Now with the Z6/Z7, the only mode that uses Contrast Detect AF is AF-S with Pinpoint AF. So you will still need to consider using AF Fine Tuning, but you do have the option of Pinpoint AF if your subject is not moving much. I used AF-S pinpoint and LowLight AF to photograph the lunar eclipse and it was spectacular - to the point where I stopped using my D850.

You are right saying that the pinpoint mode is the only mode which uses CDAF. But I thought that the general consensus is that the Z7 has a hybrid AF system, which means that after the PDAF step a CDAF step follows which would correct any misfocus of the previous PDAF step. Although the thoughts and opinions are quite mixed if both steps (PDAF and CDAF) are always done or only sometimes depending of the conditions.

The first rumors even said that there is only PDAF (without CDAF) with adapted lenses, which was later on denied by some Nikon engineers in an interview.

So my hope is that due to the hybrid character of the AF system any misfocus from the PDAF step will be corrected with CDAF so that there is no need to fine tune your lenses.

And even if the CDAF not always kicks in, the possible misalignment errors between the dedicated AF sensor and the sensor plane are non existing, so the need for AFMA should be dramatically lower. That is my hope and my main reason for considering an update to a Z7.

You have not considered the three big advantages of the Z.

1. Pointpoint AF is not available on the D800 but is on the D850 using LiveView. It's available through the EVF on the Z cameras - and is very accurate albeit a little slower.

2. The Z cameras have focus peaking using AF-S. It's available through the viewfinder so you can see exactly what plane is is focus and adjust if needed.

Is the focus peaking also available if the focus mode is not set to manual?

I think the Z7/Z6 cameras are terrific. There are a few instances where the D850 is better, and places where the Z7/Z6 are better than any other camera. I'm not sure there is anything that my D800/D800E does better than the Z7/Z6.

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
Re: I had the D800 and dumped it for the Z7

Spare-time photog wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

Btw, do you use flash? Do you see any limitations regarding the lower flash sync time?

Yes I use flash and no the sync speed does not bother me. I grew up with 1/60s which was OK for me for several decades, so 1/200s is fine. If I need faster then there is the high speed mode also.

What is not awailable is the AF assist light, but I solved that issue with this external AF assist light.

That device sounds interesting. Hopefully the high intensity LED is not harmful to the eye...

Green laser is very harmful, but this is NOT laser, but pure visible green light. It is as harmful as any other high intensity LED, and that is not at all harmful, but can be irritating if you keep playing with the shutter release and keep on half pressing without need. It's green and has the same intensity and wave length as the built in AF assist LED of the Z7. It is on only for as long as the built in AF assist LED is.

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Nikon Z7
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

jfriend00 wrote:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

You have to turn the low light mode on. If I recall correctly, it slows down the refresh of the EVF so that it can collect more photons between frames and thus get more data for focusing.

...or use the AF assist light, which allows you to focus in total darkness, and you don't suffer from slow focusing.

 olyflyer's gear list:olyflyer's gear list
Nikon Z7
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

So I send all my gear (the D800, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) to Nikon to check and adjust. The result is better, but sometimes the camera struggles to nail the focus. Then I bought a 85/1.8 lens and it missed the focus a lot. By the way a second lens was even worse in combination with my camera. So Nikon checked and adjusted the 85 lens, too. The results are better, but I am still not convinced, that the miss-focus plague is gone forever,

STOP!

Hire a Z 7 with FTZ and try it during a portrait session - ideal after the May update.

A possible reason for your current AF frustration is you have not realised D800 outer points do not detect detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame.

Well, I know that the outer AF points are not cross type, but no matter how the detail is oriented, in my experience the outer points are rather weak and unreliable. FWIW that was also the result of several measurements with Reikan Focal. And the misfocus of the 85/1.8G was clear to see even using only the center field.

This is less than ideal for focussing on an eye with the camera in portrait position, especially if the sitter does not wear strong eye make up.

The Z's do not work well with detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame which is OK for some subjects but not for others.

You could end up jumping out of the frying pan into the fire with some AF subjects.

Ok, I think I got your point: As the Z7 has no cross type AF points, the AF system is probably as problematic as my D800, right?

The Z's should be better for focussing on the eye in portraiture once the May update is released.

Hopefully that update will not only include the eye tracking, but will also include enhancements of the capabilities of the AF system itself (and some usability improvements).

By hiring a Z you can quickly learn if you find it overall better or worse for the photography you do.

Yes, you are right, I am also considering a rent. But again I have mixed feelings, because even if I would rent it for a day, I am not sure if I can gain so much insights in such a short time compared to someone who has used it for weeks or months. Thus I created this thread to listen to the experiences and opinions of other users.

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?
1

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

Yes, but what's the point of AF down to -3EV if the meter only works down to 0EV...

The Z7 metering works down to -3EV (just like the D850), which I actually prefer more than AF down to -3EV. In my opinion, accurate metering system is more important than AF in total darkness. Also, I wonder if anyone ever used a camera to AF on any target at -3EV... I mean, that is definitely very dark.

The metering of the D800 is also only down to 0EV, which can be the reason why I feel the Z7 is CONSIDERABLY better in low light situations than the D800 ever was, even though the AF of the D800 is better according to the specifications (not according to my experience).

 olyflyer's gear list:olyflyer's gear list
Nikon Z7
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

olyflyer wrote:

thejohnnerparty wrote:

Oh, I completely agree. I was just surprised that it was only -1EV. I believe the D750 is good down to -3EV. That is why I was somewhat surprised.

Yes, but what's the point of AF down to -3EV if the meter only works down to 0EV...

The Z7 metering works down to -3EV (just like the D850), which I actually prefer more than AF down to -3EV. In my opinion, accurate metering system is more important than AF in total darkness. Also, I wonder if anyone ever used a camera to AF on any target at -3EV... I mean, that is definitely very dark.

Darker than dark...

"The 51 sensor points in the D800/D800E’s AF sensor module work down to -2 EV (ISO 100, 20°C/68°F), the approximate physical limit of human visibility through an optical viewfinder."

Found here: https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/features03.htm

The metering of the D800 is also only down to 0EV,

Ups, I didn't notice that before...

which can be the reason why I feel the Z7 is CONSIDERABLY better in low light situations than the D800 ever was, even though the AF of the D800 is better according to the specifications (not according to my experience).

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,679
I think that hiring a camera is not always a good idea...
3

...unless you already know the camera. I mean, who is ready to hire a camera long enough to learn everything about the camera, read the thick reference manual and play with the camera long enough to know it? It's pretty expensive, and unless you hire it for long enough you will not get the full picture of how it works, what's good and not good, which situations you have to think or use it differently and so on. Just to get your hands on the camera there is no need to hire, just go to a shop and try it there. That gives you an idea about the feel of the camera. If you like the feel, I am sure the rest will be solved automatically in time.

Another thing is that if you are not sure about it then wait. Save the money and see how it turns out. Maybe you'll feel more secure later on, maybe not, but waiting for a new model will not change anything because the new model, when it comes, will be more expensive and you will end up with the same insecure questions...

On the other hand, in the meantime, while you are waiting, the Z7 will become cheaper (maybe) so you may change your mind because of the price drop.

I think hiring cameras is more beneficial for those who are familiar with the  camera they hire and need one on short terms, temporarily.

 olyflyer's gear list:olyflyer's gear list
Nikon Z7
ericbowles
ericbowles Regular Member • Posts: 337
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?
4

Spare-time photog wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

So I send all my gear (the D800, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) to Nikon to check and adjust. The result is better, but sometimes the camera struggles to nail the focus. Then I bought a 85/1.8 lens and it missed the focus a lot. By the way a second lens was even worse in combination with my camera. So Nikon checked and adjusted the 85 lens, too. The results are better, but I am still not convinced, that the miss-focus plague is gone forever,

STOP!

Hire a Z 7 with FTZ and try it during a portrait session - ideal after the May update.

A possible reason for your current AF frustration is you have not realised D800 outer points do not detect detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame.

Well, I know that the outer AF points are not cross type, but no matter how the detail is oriented, in my experience the outer points are rather weak and unreliable. FWIW that was also the result of several measurements with Reikan Focal. And the misfocus of the 85/1.8G was clear to see even using only the center field.

This is less than ideal for focussing on an eye with the camera in portrait position, especially if the sitter does not wear strong eye make up.

The Z's do not work well with detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame which is OK for some subjects but not for others.

You could end up jumping out of the frying pan into the fire with some AF subjects.

Ok, I think I got your point: As the Z7 has no cross type AF points, the AF system is probably as problematic as my D800, right?

The Z's should be better for focussing on the eye in portraiture once the May update is released.

Hopefully that update will not only include the eye tracking, but will also include enhancements of the capabilities of the AF system itself (and some usability improvements).

By hiring a Z you can quickly learn if you find it overall better or worse for the photography you do.

Yes, you are right, I am also considering a rent. But again I have mixed feelings, because even if I would rent it for a day, I am not sure if I can gain so much insights in such a short time compared to someone who has used it for weeks or months. Thus I created this thread to listen to the experiences and opinions of other users.

I think what Len is saying is that with all cameras, the skill in getting sharp images comes from the photographer rather than the gear.  If you can't get sharp images with the D800, it's you - not the camera.  Sure - there are settings that don't work as you might like, and you can choose AF sensors that are better or worse than others, but those are normal things for any camera.  In skilled hands these issues are insignificant.  Even the best technology requires you know when and how to use it effectively.

My experience is that while the Z6/Z7 does not have cross AF points, its usually not a barrier to sharp images.  It has more AF points and you can use the EVF to check focus and adjust if needed.  Focus peaking is only available with manual focus - but that can help too.

I do agree - a one day rental won't tell you much.  Most likely you'll spend several hours figuring out how to tweak the camera for your use, and understanding how to choose the right AF setting.  You'll have to be willing to modify your technique to fit the camera.   But once you know the camera, there is no question that the results are superior to your D800.

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Eric Bowles
BowlesImages.com

 ericbowles's gear list:ericbowles's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm F4G ED VR +14 more
OP Spare-time photog Junior Member • Posts: 39
Re: D800->Z7 or wait for next generation?

ericbowles wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Spare-time photog wrote:

So I send all my gear (the D800, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8) to Nikon to check and adjust. The result is better, but sometimes the camera struggles to nail the focus. Then I bought a 85/1.8 lens and it missed the focus a lot. By the way a second lens was even worse in combination with my camera. So Nikon checked and adjusted the 85 lens, too. The results are better, but I am still not convinced, that the miss-focus plague is gone forever,

STOP!

Hire a Z 7 with FTZ and try it during a portrait session - ideal after the May update.

A possible reason for your current AF frustration is you have not realised D800 outer points do not detect detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame.

Well, I know that the outer AF points are not cross type, but no matter how the detail is oriented, in my experience the outer points are rather weak and unreliable. FWIW that was also the result of several measurements with Reikan Focal. And the misfocus of the 85/1.8G was clear to see even using only the center field.

This is less than ideal for focussing on an eye with the camera in portrait position, especially if the sitter does not wear strong eye make up.

The Z's do not work well with detail parallel to the long dimension of the frame which is OK for some subjects but not for others.

You could end up jumping out of the frying pan into the fire with some AF subjects.

Ok, I think I got your point: As the Z7 has no cross type AF points, the AF system is probably as problematic as my D800, right?

The Z's should be better for focussing on the eye in portraiture once the May update is released.

Hopefully that update will not only include the eye tracking, but will also include enhancements of the capabilities of the AF system itself (and some usability improvements).

By hiring a Z you can quickly learn if you find it overall better or worse for the photography you do.

Yes, you are right, I am also considering a rent. But again I have mixed feelings, because even if I would rent it for a day, I am not sure if I can gain so much insights in such a short time compared to someone who has used it for weeks or months. Thus I created this thread to listen to the experiences and opinions of other users.

I think what Len is saying is that with all cameras, the skill in getting sharp images comes from the photographer rather than the gear. If you can't get sharp images with the D800, it's you - not the camera. Sure - there are settings that don't work as you might like, and you can choose AF sensors that are better or worse than others, but those are normal things for any camera. In skilled hands these issues are insignificant. Even the best technology requires you know when and how to use it effectively.

Well, I agree, but only to a certain extent.

Yes, you are right, the D800 is capable of stunning and sharp images, no question. And of course it is the photographer not the tool, not the camera. I am not so naive to think that I will take better images with a Z7 or any other camera.

But, and now I have to diagree, in my opinion some issues are not insignificant. They are becoming more and more significant if these issues begin to rain on your parade. I was already afraid of buying a f/1.8 lens after my mixed experiences with my 2.8 lenses wide open, although I originally wanted a f/1.4 lens. And the focus problem of both 85/1.8 lenses were visible using the center focus points. The next shootings will tell wether the problem is solved or persistent.

I just want to get rid of the DSLR's inherent possible AF problems, i.e. AFMA, that I experienced. That is my main expectation and my hope a Z7 has to fullfil. I don't want to care if my camera can handle a f/1.2 or not or if I have to better use only the centre AF fields, I just want to be confident in my camera and I want to concentrate in composing and in taking the picture, capture the moment and to become a better photographer, what is already hard enough.

Of course everyone has different experiences, I respect that. And of course I am not stating that it is impossible to get sharp images with a DSLR or the D800, but to be honest, at the moment I am a little bit frustrated.

At the end it seems that I am not alone, as one can read in this thread and here in this forum in general.

My experience is that while the Z6/Z7 does not have cross AF points, its usually not a barrier to sharp images. It has more AF points and you can use the EVF to check focus and adjust if needed. Focus peaking is only available with manual focus - but that can help too.

If I zoom in the EVF, does the frame rate decrease drastically?

I do agree - a one day rental won't tell you much. Most likely you'll spend several hours figuring out how to tweak the camera for your use, and understanding how to choose the right AF setting. You'll have to be willing to modify your technique to fit the camera. But once you know the camera, there is no question that the results are superior to your D800.

 Spare-time photog's gear list:Spare-time photog's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon 85mm F1.8G
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