Recommend a lens for a GX7 for indoor photos of parrots

brentbrent wrote:

That close to her, even 2.8 might give too narrow DOF. It looks to me like the focus is on the fur between her eye and her beak, with both her eye and beak falling a bit out of focus.

Eye is in focus, lower part of beak and area below eye looks out of focus to me.  She doesn't have fur, though, but she does have feathers. 

I do like to get close to them for certain shots.  I can keep experimenting with my various lenses but I can't use some of them at all because of space limitations.

If you think 2.8 is to shallow, what would you recommend?

TN Args wrote:

brentbrent wrote:

That close to her, even 2.8 might give too narrow DOF. It looks to me like the focus is on the fur between her eye and her beak, with both her eye and beak falling a bit out of focus.

And also the risk of the lens not being able to focus close enough. Macro lens to the rescue!

Macro...LOL.  I have a 100mm/2.8 macro for my Pentaxes but most of my birds scream at that lens or run/fly away. Anyway even if they didn't do that, seems to me that it's good for insects, objects and plants/flowers but not for taking photos of my birds, IMHO.   I do realize that the 30mm/20.8 is smaller although the 100mm Pentax is not a long lens except when you start focusing and the front lens element moves outward.  That really bugs the birds.

This little guy is very difficult to take photos of.  The camera really frightens him so absolutely no flash and I can't take him out and let him perch on a stand because, unfortunately, he can't perch due to broken legs when he was either tossed from or fell out of his nest when he was a baby.  The legs couldn't be fixed although the vet splinted one to change the direction of growth.  Mom and dad bird didn't want him...:-(

BTW, this is not what a consider a good photo but sometimes it's the best I can get when it comes to him.

Spee in his bowl

Max Iso wrote:

avianb wrote:

Max Iso wrote:

Grab the Panasonic 30mm macro. It's "faster" at f/2.8 but also has OIS (bc the IBIS in the GX7 is a bad joke), which will help you in lowlight. Birds tend to move intermittently (at least the ones i have had) so it shouldnt be hard to catch them in between movements with a slower SS thanks to OIS.

It's also a macro so you can get close, and it will be very sharp. It's also on sale right now for $300. Set that GX7 in silent mode burst and fire off a ton of shots, you are bound to get a bunch sharp and in focus.

A few people have recommended that lens. I would have thought that this wouldn't work as well in low light compared to the lenses that can open up to wider apertures.

What about the Sigma 30/1.4 Contemporary? Not finding a lot of posts about that here.

I like to take photos of my birds when they are quietly perching but also when they are active. I think the more interesting photos are when they are busy doing something.

The main issue with that is DOF. Even on MFT, shooting at f/1.4 from less than a foot means you will be lucky to get en entire eyeball in focus. And macros are usually very sharp even wide open, i doubt the Sigma 30 f/1.4 can match the Panasonic wide open, if detail is important.

People shooting macro cant get enough DOF to cover a bug, let alone an entire bird. If you are willing to trade off DOF for less noise then maybe it's worth it?

I understand what you and the others are saying regarding DOF. As for macro, I have a Pentax 100mm macro but I don't generally use that for taking photos of my birds and don't use macro for their photos. Maybe it would work for my sparrow but the lens would totally freak him out.

I do know of someone who takes really great photos of her birds using a 50/1.4 Pentax. as well as a Sigma 30/1.4 and a Pentax 70/2.4. She said that she sometimes gets fairly close to the birds to take the photos. Don't know how close, though. Minimum focus distances for the 50 and 30 are @18" and 11.8. Maybe I should just back up more.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

avianb wrote:

Tatouzou wrote:

If the 25mm angle of view is wide enough, the Panasonic 25 f1.7 is a safe affordable choice.

I have both the 25 and the 20.

The 20 is a better lens and is noticeably wider. It works only in AFS, the camera automatically switches to AFS if AFC is selected.

Its AF is quite responsive on my GM5, and of course faster on G7 and GX8, thanks to DFD. It will only hunt if there is no contrast on the target.

Thanks for your opinion regarding the 20/1.7. That was my first choice but then I kept reading about the issues with AF. Unfortunately GX7 does not have DFD at least as far as I know. I've also read, though, that the 20/1.7 is a bit on the noisy side and not good for doing video due to that whereas the 25/1.7 does not have that issue.

The 20 is sharp and fast but focus is the worst of all my m4/3 lenses, and not by a small margin either. Certainly not my choice for low light; in daylight it's fine.

I don't see the Oly 17/1.8 mentioned, so maybe add it to your list. Minimum focus distance is 10". The clever added feature is snap manual focus, very handy for fine adjustment on the fly. The Oly 25/1.8 is super sharp, fast-focusing and also focuses to 10". Does not have snap MF, though.

Good luck, the birds look like fun!

Cheers,

Rick

Thanks.  Will check out that 17/1.8.  Was considering the Oly 25/1.8 but then kept going back to the 20/1.7.  Wonder if Panasonic will ever decide to make a newer version that has improved AF.  Too bad they didn't improve that when they produced ver 2.

avianb wrote:

Max Iso wrote:

avianb wrote:

Max Iso wrote:

Grab the Panasonic 30mm macro. It's "faster" at f/2.8 but also has OIS (bc the IBIS in the GX7 is a bad joke), which will help you in lowlight. Birds tend to move intermittently (at least the ones i have had) so it shouldnt be hard to catch them in between movements with a slower SS thanks to OIS.

It's also a macro so you can get close, and it will be very sharp. It's also on sale right now for $300. Set that GX7 in silent mode burst and fire off a ton of shots, you are bound to get a bunch sharp and in focus.

A few people have recommended that lens. I would have thought that this wouldn't work as well in low light compared to the lenses that can open up to wider apertures.

What about the Sigma 30/1.4 Contemporary? Not finding a lot of posts about that here.

I like to take photos of my birds when they are quietly perching but also when they are active. I think the more interesting photos are when they are busy doing something.

The main issue with that is DOF. Even on MFT, shooting at f/1.4 from less than a foot means you will be lucky to get en entire eyeball in focus. And macros are usually very sharp even wide open, i doubt the Sigma 30 f/1.4 can match the Panasonic wide open, if detail is important.

People shooting macro cant get enough DOF to cover a bug, let alone an entire bird. If you are willing to trade off DOF for less noise then maybe it's worth it?

I understand what you and the others are saying regarding DOF. As for macro, I have a Pentax 100mm macro but I don't generally use that for taking photos of my birds and don't use macro for their photos. Maybe it would work for my sparrow but the lens would totally freak him out.

I do know of someone who takes really great photos of her birds using a 50/1.4 Pentax. as well as a Sigma 30/1.4 and a Pentax 70/2.4. She said that she sometimes gets fairly close to the birds to take the photos. Don't know how close, though. Minimum focus distances for the 50 and 30 are @18" and 11.8. Maybe I should just back up more.

If you want more depth of field at f1.7/f2, maybe a 1" compact or even a smaller sensor might be the right tool. Some can focus very close and fast, like the Sony RX100-3 or 4 which focuses as close as 2 inches.

As the RX100-3 is a 2015 model, it should be affordable. Panasonic and Canon also offer this kind of tool. Some dont have an EVF, but maybe you dont need one, and thus can save the extra cost. And their small size should not frighten your birds.

For instance, according to Dpreview review,  Panasonic LX10/LX15 has the DFD Panasonic AF which seems to perform as well as in present M43 models. The lens is f1.4  at 24mm equivalent,  and f2.8 at 31mm equivalent. Minimum focus distance is 3cm (1.2 inch)

Tatouzou wrote:

avianb wrote:

Max Iso wrote:

avianb wrote:

Max Iso wrote:

Grab the Panasonic 30mm macro. It's "faster" at f/2.8 but also has OIS (bc the IBIS in the GX7 is a bad joke), which will help you in lowlight. Birds tend to move intermittently (at least the ones i have had) so it shouldnt be hard to catch them in between movements with a slower SS thanks to OIS.

It's also a macro so you can get close, and it will be very sharp. It's also on sale right now for $300. Set that GX7 in silent mode burst and fire off a ton of shots, you are bound to get a bunch sharp and in focus.

A few people have recommended that lens. I would have thought that this wouldn't work as well in low light compared to the lenses that can open up to wider apertures.

What about the Sigma 30/1.4 Contemporary? Not finding a lot of posts about that here.

I like to take photos of my birds when they are quietly perching but also when they are active. I think the more interesting photos are when they are busy doing something.

The main issue with that is DOF. Even on MFT, shooting at f/1.4 from less than a foot means you will be lucky to get en entire eyeball in focus. And macros are usually very sharp even wide open, i doubt the Sigma 30 f/1.4 can match the Panasonic wide open, if detail is important.

People shooting macro cant get enough DOF to cover a bug, let alone an entire bird. If you are willing to trade off DOF for less noise then maybe it's worth it?

I understand what you and the others are saying regarding DOF. As for macro, I have a Pentax 100mm macro but I don't generally use that for taking photos of my birds and don't use macro for their photos. Maybe it would work for my sparrow but the lens would totally freak him out.

I do know of someone who takes really great photos of her birds using a 50/1.4 Pentax. as well as a Sigma 30/1.4 and a Pentax 70/2.4. She said that she sometimes gets fairly close to the birds to take the photos. Don't know how close, though. Minimum focus distances for the 50 and 30 are @18" and 11.8. Maybe I should just back up more.

If you want more depth of field at f1.7/f2, maybe a 1" compact or even a smaller sensor might be the right tool. Some can focus very close and fast, like the Sony RX100-3 or 4 which focuses as close as 2 inches.

As the RX100-3 is a 2015 model, it should be affordable. Panasonic and Canon also offer this kind of tool. Some dont have an EVF, but maybe you dont need one, and thus can save the extra cost. And their small size should not frighten your birds.

For instance, according to Dpreview review, Panasonic LX10/LX15 has the DFD Panasonic AF which seems to perform as well as in present M43 models. The lens is f1.4 at 24mm equivalent, and f2.8 at 31mm equivalent. Minimum focus distance is 3cm (1.2 inch)

Thanks for the suggestions.  I have too many cameras and don't want to purchase any more unless I get one of the newer Panasonics or Pentaxes.     I think I've narrowed it down to:  Oly 25/1.8 or Sigma 30/1.4 but then that Panasonic 20/1.7 still calls to me and there is the "cheap" 25/1.7 that I just can't make myself purchase.  I fooled with different focal lengths and I generally prefer the 25 FOV.   I will do some more experimenting today.

thinkinginimages wrote:

It depends on what I'm working on. Sometimes it's on the camera, sometimes on a tabletop tripod or a light stand. I do bounce the light a lot. In a small room, it won't be hard to place and bounce.

It's rugged, too. That might be handy. Those big birds have powerful beaks. I had an ornery cockatiel...

Rugged is good.  Some of my birds excel at destroying things.

Luckily my 'too doesn't usually bite me.  I do have a 'tiel who likes to bite and, even though his beak is small, those bites can sometimes be painful.

The Olympus f/1.8 25mm focuses down to about 9-10 inches from the front element.

JaKing wrote:

The Olympus f/1.8 25mm focuses down to about 9-10 inches from the front element.

Yes.  It would probably be OK.  Reviews are positive and negative but that's the same for all of the lenses I have been looking at.  If everyone loved a lens it would be easier to choose.  If I had unlimited funds it would be easier to choose.

I want to order today because the sale prices on the Oly and Panasonic lenses I have been considering end tonight. Am ordering from B&H because I have a gift card I can apply towards the purchase. Have been "sitting on" that gift card for 3 years. It's my refund for my canceled 25/1.7 which I originally purchased with a gift card that I received from the purchase of my GX7.

Don't know why I am having so much difficulty choosing a lens. Some say Oly 25 1.8 is excellent, others say to pass on that. Some are OK with AF from Lumix 20/1.7 and others hate it, sell the camera and purchase something else. Some people like the Sigma 30/1.4 and then I've read reviews that state it doesn't focus well in low light while other reviews state that the AF is great and the only downside is some CA when opened wide. Some reviewers even feel that it comes close to the PL 25/1.4.  Lumix 25/1.7 OK for some especially based on the price when it is cheaper but for others it's just not good enough.

It all comes down to personal tastes, expectations and needs but then also what is within one's budget.

I appreciate everyone's comments. I am still not sure what I am going to do.   I have to say I'm more confused than when I started my search.

I have always trusted Imaging Resources reviews. They are consistent with my experience with the lenses I own.

Here is their review of the Olympus f/1.8 25mm

https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/olympus/25mm-f1.8-m.zuiko-digital/review/

Read that, and play around with their widget here

https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/olympus/25mm-f1.8-m.zuiko-digital/blur/panasonic-gx1/

Keep in mind that they tested this on a Panasonic GX1 (very old model ... ).

JaKing wrote:

I have always trusted Imaging Resources reviews. They are consistent with my experience with the lenses I own.

Here is their review of the Olympus f/1.8 25mm

https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/olympus/25mm-f1.8-m.zuiko-digital/review/

Read that, and play around with their widget here

https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/olympus/25mm-f1.8-m.zuiko-digital/blur/panasonic-gx1/

Keep in mind that they tested this on a Panasonic GX1 (very old model ... ).

Thanks. I did read the Imaging Resource reviews as well as view a lot of youtube video reviews. Also read through posts on mu-43. Decided I would get the Oly 25/1.8.

Cut it too close when I went to order. Logged on to B&H, didn't remember my password so had to reset, finally logged on, put lens in cart, realized I added the wrong lens, removed it and went to order the 25 and the price had increased by $100. My problem for procrastinating but then I just wasn't sure what I wanted. Checked out price on Amazon and still $249 so thought I would price match but then that price went up, too.

Will look at the other lenses again today and try to drive over to a camera store (not exactly local but I have the time today) and check them out.

Wish Imaging Resource had a review of the Sigma 30 1.4.

Was disappointed that the camera store did not have any Sigma 30/1.4 or even 16/1.4 in stock.  Thought I might even look at the APS-C/Sony version to get an idea of the size but they didn't even have those in stock.

I tried the Lumix 20/1.7 and 25/1.7.  Thought I would try the 25/1.4 but they didn't have that in stock either.  Also tried the Olympus 25/1.8 and 42.5/1.8.     Took several photos and checked them out when I got home.  Best image quality in my eyes were the photos taken with the 20/1.7.  Hard to find a really dark part of store to test AF in low light.  Only found the focus to be slow when I immediately went from focusing close to focusing further away.  The same thing seemed to happen, though, with the Oly.  Didn't notice that delay with the 25/1.7. Eliminated 42.5 because it just doesn't offer the FOV I want.

While I was there I checked out the GX9.  Of course there are several improvements over the GX7  but I felt that the ergonomics were lacking.   GX7 is comfortable for me to hold but same can not be said regarding the GX9.   Why that tiny almost useless grip?  I have read, though, that there are grips that can be purchased.