Recommend a lens for a GX7 for indoor photos of parrots

Looking for a lens for my GX7 that works well in low light and with which I can get close to my birds in order to take photos.  I have been considering the Lumix 20/1.7 but am concerned about what I have read regarding the slow auto focus in some situations such as low light and low contrast.  My birds can move quickly and I don't want AF to be an issue.   I've also looked at the 25/1.7 and Olympus 25/1.8.  I have a limited budget and don't want to spend more than @$300-400.  The 25/1.7 is inexpensive but I think there are probably better choices.  I need to consider the minimum distance because many times I am only about 6-8" away from the birds and sometimes even less.

Thanks in advance

You might also consider the 42.5mm f/1.7. I wouldn't think it would be too long for shooting parrots at 6-8 feet.  If you have a 14-42 kit zoom, you could check how the 42.5mm focal length works for you.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1124342-REG/panasonic_h_hs043k_lumix_g_42_5mm_f_1_7.html

Thanks but I need a lens that will focus as close as 6-8 inches or even less. Sometimes there is not a lot of space between me and a parrot/parrots.

The minimum focus distance of the 25mm f/1.7 is 9.84 inches. The minimum focus distance of the 42.5 f/1.7 is 12 inches. That would probably give you a closer shot than the 25 could at 10". If you're saying you want to take photos 10" away from your birds, but you can't back up two more inches, then, dang, you have a pretty confined space there!

Minimum focus distance of Olympus 25mm f/1.8 is 9.4".   These minimum focus distances are listed under the "Specs" section on B&H Photo's web site.

It's probably more like 8-12" but sometimes I am closer. If I back up too much they may leave the area and come towards me. If I stay close they will usually stay where they are and I can get the shot. I have to be quick, though, because they like the camera and will go right up to the lens when I am close or will fly to me when I back off. I've looked through photos I've taken with the 14-42 and most of them are taken at 20 - 30 mm.

Perhaps give some thought to off-camera flash as well.

JaKing wrote:

Perhaps give some thought to off-camera flash as well.

Thanks but I try not to use any flash with the birds because it scares some of them.

avianb wrote:

JaKing wrote:

Perhaps give some thought to off-camera flash as well.

Thanks but I try not to use any flash with the birds because it scares some of them.

I understand. Was thinking of heavily diffused fill flash well away from them, not direct flash.

20 f/1.7 has only issue on CAF. If you shoot with AFS and shoot when the bird will not move fast (move the head, open the mouth etc small altitude motion might not be a major problem here), 20 is a highly usable lens.

Might be a 14 f/2.5 could also be considered which is the cheapest but not as fast as others.

If budget allowed 15 f/1.7 could be an ideal lens (I bought mine US$352 in gray market) especially of its DoF advantage over longer lenses in tight shootin space.

e.g. f/1.7 at a shooting distance of 5ft:

• 14mm has a DoF of 1.13ft (in front of) / 2.05ft (behind the plane of focus) @f/2.5,
• 15mm is 0.72ft / 1.02ft,
• 17mm is 0.61ft / 0.81ft @f/1.8,
• 20mm is 0.43ft / 0.52ft,
• 25mm is 0.29ft / 0.32ft,
• 42.5mm is 0.1ft / 0.1ft (take the reading of a 43mm lens).

The deeper the DoF, the closer the shooting distance, the darker the environment need to wide open a lens, or need the faster shutter speed to capture the movement of your bird, the 15mm would have a better position among the others. 14mm could be the most economy choice.

JaKing wrote:

avianb wrote:

JaKing wrote:

Perhaps give some thought to off-camera flash as well.

Thanks but I try not to use any flash with the birds because it scares some of them.

I understand. Was thinking of heavily diffused fill flash well away from them, not direct flash.

It's a good idea but In the bird room, no matter where a flash is placed, it would be near at least one bird.  I can get away with a flash with some but it spooks others.

alcelc wrote:

20 f/1.7 has only issue on CAF. If you shoot with AFS and shoot when the bird will not move fast (move the head, open the mouth etc small altitude motion might not be a major problem here), 20 is a highly usable lens.

Might be a 14 f/2.5 could also be considered which is the cheapest but not as fast as others.

If budget allowed 15 f/1.7 could be an ideal lens (I bought mine US$352 in gray market) especially of its DoF advantage over longer lenses in tight shootin space.

e.g. f/1.7 at a shooting distance of 5ft:

• 14mm has a DoF of 1.13ft (in front of) / 2.05ft (behind the plane of focus) @f/2.5,
• 15mm is 0.72ft / 1.02ft,
• 17mm is 0.61ft / 0.81ft @f/1.8,
• 20mm is 0.43ft / 0.52ft,
• 25mm is 0.29ft / 0.32ft,
• 42.5mm is 0.1ft / 0.1ft (take the reading of a 43mm lens).

The deeper the DoF, the closer the shooting distance, the darker the environment need to wide open a lens, or need the faster shutter speed to capture the movement of your bird, the 15mm would have a better position among the others. 14mm could be the most economy choice.

15/1.7 out of my price range and don't want to go with grey market.  You paid a great price for that lens.

I probably need to adjust the distance I am from the birds from what I posted in the original post.  Probably more like  6" to about 12-15".  Sometimes I get closer, sometimes a bit further but generally it seems to be about that range.   I do have a 43/1.9 Pentax that I've used with the birds but can't get overly close.  Minimum focusing distance is about 1 1/2 feet.  I do use AFS.   What do you think about AFF?  I've never tried that.

I also checked out some info about the Sigma 30/1.4 Art so throwing that into the mix although it looks a bit on the large size to me.  I do like the size of the 20/1.7.  Some seem to have no issue with the AF and some have just given up on it and gone to another lens.

avianb wrote:

It's probably more like 8-12" but sometimes I am closer. If I back up too much they may leave the area and come towards me. If I stay close they will usually stay where they are and I can get the shot. I have to be quick, though, because they like the camera and will go right up to the lens when I am close or will fly to me when I back off. I've looked through photos I've taken with the 14-42 and most of them are taken at 20 - 30 mm.

If the 25mm angle of view is wide enough, the Panasonic 25 f1.7 is a safe affordable choice.

I have both the 25 and the 20.

The 20 is a better lens and is noticeably wider. It works only in AFS, the camera automatically switches to AFS if AFC is selected.

Its AF is quite responsive on my GM5, and of course faster on G7 and GX8, thanks to DFD. It will only hunt if there is no contrast on the target.

avianb wrote:

It's probably more like 8-12" but sometimes I am closer. If I back up too much they may leave the area and come towards me. If I stay close they will usually stay where they are and I can get the shot. I have to be quick, though, because they like the camera and will go right up to the lens when I am close or will fly to me when I back off. I've looked through photos I've taken with the 14-42 and most of them are taken at 20 - 30 mm.

Then I suggest the Panasonic 30mm Macro with OIS.

Jostian wrote:

avianb wrote:

Looking for a lens for my GX7 that works well in low light and with which I can get close to my birds in order to take photos. I have been considering the Lumix 20/1.7 but am concerned about what I have read regarding the slow auto focus in some situations such as low light and low contrast. My birds can move quickly and I don't want AF to be an issue. I've also looked at the 25/1.7 and Olympus 25/1.8. I have a limited budget and don't want to spend more than @$300-400. The 25/1.7 is inexpensive but I think there are probably better choices. I need to consider the minimum distance because many times I am only about 6-8" away from the birds and sometimes even less.

Thanks in advance

The 25mm F1.7 is excellent and AF is speedy.

Purchased that for $99 when it was being offered at that low price.  It was on back order for a while and then the vendor decided to cancel the order.  Used a gift card from that vendor and I just don't want to buy that lens again from that vendor because it was just irritating that other vendors honored the price on back orders.  Probably being silly but it just bugged me.

I didn't think it was worth the higher price, $247, although they recently lowered the price again to $147.

Minimum focus distance is around 20 inches, which might not work for you it this situation.  Otherwise, a lens I enjoy.  Seems to render a high percentage of keepers.  (Maybe it just sees things the way I see them.)

thinkinginimages wrote:

avianb wrote:

Looking for a lens for my GX7 that works well in low light and with which I can get close to my birds in order to take photos. I have been considering the Lumix 20/1.7 but am concerned about what I have read regarding the slow auto focus in some situations such as low light and low contrast. My birds can move quickly and I don't want AF to be an issue. I've also looked at the 25/1.7 and Olympus 25/1.8. I have a limited budget and don't want to spend more than @$300-400. The 25/1.7 is inexpensive but I think there are probably better choices. I need to consider the minimum distance because many times I am only about 6-8" away from the birds and sometimes even less.

Thanks in advance

You have a lot of variables that are making me think "wait a sec".

Flash or ambient light? If ambient what are the light levels (take a meter reading)?

6-8 inches to something with a sharp pointy beak?

Depth of field/focus?

AE/AF Lock?

I wanted to get that out of the way so I have some structure to my thinking this early in the morning.

You may have more ambient light than you think, so that may be an important aspect if you're choosing ambient light. Bounce flash may be the answer.

A fast lens seems like a logical choice but shooting wide open is going to limit your depth of field/focus to inches. Check out a depth of field calculator to see if that's within your needs.

6-8 inches puts you at the near side of macro, This may be more short telephoto to get a little more distance. You might need a closeup lens to get a little closer.

Let me circle back around to AE/AF lock. It's a genius feature because you can cut down the lag time by prefocusing. The DOF calc comes in handy here.

It's always a risk with the beaks but they are generally good although several of them like the camera and will go right up to the lens. I've only had one of them grab the zoom lens once. I revised the distance to about 6" - 12", give or take. I took several photos of them today with the 14-42 zoom and the focal lengths ranged from about 14 to 35 for the most part. I'm going to experiment more with a few of my other lenses to get a better idea of the best focal length and look at DOF and aperture more.

I agree with you regarding DOF. If a bird is in his/her cage when I take a photo I either open the cage door or get close to the bars to try to blur them. I don't have a depth of field calculator but I am going to download an app.

I think the 20/1.7 is a good choice for street photography which is something I like to do so would like to get a lens for that in addition to taking photos of the birds. I also added the Sigma 30/1.4 to my list. Just don't know. Would have more lens choices if I had more $$$$ to spend.

I rarely use the AF lock so that's a very good suggestion.

jnat wrote:

Minimum focus distance is around 20 inches, which might not work for you it this situation. Otherwise, a lens I enjoy. Seems to render a high percentage of keepers. (Maybe it just sees things the way I see them.)

Thanks.  I've read good things about that lens. I have a 43/1.9 for my Pentax, fast focusing and excellent image quality. However minimum focus distance is about 18 inches and so it doesn't always work well for taking photos of my  birds.

Not using my Pentax as much as I should because it's a lot heavier and bulkier than my GX7.