Interesting new Ricoh GRIII metering - expose to the right finally?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,145
Re: Interesting new Ricoh GRIII metering - expose to the right finally?

teemodk wrote:

SirPeepsalot wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

SirPeepsalot wrote:

ETTR is an exposure strategy specific to digital because it takes advantage of how digital information is captured and quantized as more tones can be distinguished in the shadows by exposing them as midtones and in midtones by exposing them as highlights.

The difference is how closed to midtones and the shadows are to them, so yes applying positive exposure compensation relative to the perceptually expected final result is what ETTR is all about.

This is not what is clearly defined in the link provided. And from that link also note that it does mention Michael Reichman's talk on it.

Sorry but I can't agree with your claims of the definition of what ETTR is.

Well I can't force you to but if you take a moment to think about the purpose it serves and its uniqueness to digital capture you'll see that it is the only the thing that makes it a 'thing' to begin with.

Really it shouldn't be difficult to distinguish between things that are diametrically opposite - if you were to work in full manual mode highlight protection strategy would produce a picture either as intended to be viewed or one that needs shadows to be pushed in post whereas ETTR would produce a picture that needs to be pulled (or curve-adjusted downards) in post.

It seems to me that you did not read the link from Raist3d, which is the same I quoted from earlier. I think you are over complicating ETTR.
You simply make sure all highlights are inside the view of the histogram. This ensues that the sensor get as much light to work with as possible without blowing highlights.
If you need to push or pull the shadows depends on the dynamic range of the scene and sensor.

The highlights wherein you wish to retain detail. And the raw histogram. And just inside the view of the histogram. Then yes I agree.

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OP Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,663
Sure looks like ETTR is in!

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

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Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,029
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white. I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

Shawn67 Senior Member • Posts: 2,152
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white. I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

The Ricoh certainly doesn't make a gray wall come out while. The metering mode just seems to put more weighting on keeping highlights, not maximizing the exposure.

For example here are two shots of concrete in Program mode with auto ISO:

Matrix metering : ISO100 f4.5 1/320

Highlight Priority metering: ISO100 f5 1/320

Shawn

Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,029
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Shawn67 wrote:

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white. I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

The Ricoh certainly doesn't make a gray wall come out while. The metering mode just seems to put more weighting on keeping highlights, not maximizing the exposure.

For example here are two shots of concrete in Program mode with auto ISO:

Shawn

That makes sense, thanks

OP Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,663
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white.

Yes.

I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

Did you watch the video? Of course, they have other standard metering modes. ETTR pretty much always requires editing the RAW a bit in some way.  But yeah, I am not sure until I can use one- just pointing out what the video points out.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

They do? I haven't seen it. Which Sony's?

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Daedalus2000
Daedalus2000 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,029
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Raist3d wrote:

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white.

Yes.

ETTR means that the exposure is maximized for every image, highlight metering kicks in only when it has to, so I do not think they are the same.

I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

Did you watch the video? Of course, they have other standard metering modes. ETTR pretty much always requires editing the RAW a bit in some way. But yeah, I am not sure until I can use one- just pointing out what the video points out.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

They do? I haven't seen it. Which Sony's?

A7R3, RX10 mark 4, A6500 etc etc

2ndact scene1 Regular Member • Posts: 214
Re: Interesting new Ricoh GRIII metering - expose to the right finally?

SirPeepsalot wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Looks like Ricoh may have done the first or one of the first "expose to the right" metering-exposures ever. I saw they have a priority for highlights through the frame, which is new.

This would be interesting to preserve highlights at all costs and the famous "cameras should do expose to the right" that Michael Reichman from Luminous Landscape used to talk about.

I have not tried, so I can't be sure, but looks like that's what it tries to do from the manual.

Protecting the highlights is not what ETTR is about, that's "exposing for highlights".

It's ETTR if you shoot an empty, evenly-lit white wall without exposure compensation and it comes out white rather than gray.

I just heard about this for the first time yesterday in Mattius Burling’s review of the GRIII.  I am pretty sure he said he had used it before on a Nikon camera and finds it pretty useful.  Maybe it was a Nikon model that uses a sony sensor, so that would be the common denominator between Sony, Ricoh and some Nikon models.    Sounds like a great idea to me.

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OP Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,663
Re: Sure looks like ETTR is in!

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62613410

The video linked in that post shows it off and calls it that way.

Are you sure it is ETTR and not just a highlight protection mechanism? ETTR means that for a scene with not a lot of dynamic range, e.g. a grey wall, the wall will come out almost white.

Yes.

ETTR means that the exposure is maximized for every image, highlight metering kicks in only when it has to, so I do not think they are the same.

perhaps a smarter way to do it in average

I do not think Ricoh will implement such a metering mode, because it means everyone would have to adjust their exposure in post-processing.

Did you watch the video? Of course, they have other standard metering modes. ETTR pretty much always requires editing the RAW a bit in some way. But yeah, I am not sure until I can use one- just pointing out what the video points out.

By the way the Sonys have that for some time now...

They do? I haven't seen it. Which Sony's?

A7R3, RX10 mark 4, A6500 etc etc

Will check  thanks

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