Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 16,135
Megapixels
3

Cagey75 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

TN Args wrote:

007peter wrote:

Before you ask this question, it would HELP to differentiate between 2 Fujis!

  • Before (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Slow & Unreliable with horrible video. I would not recommend buying older XT1/XT2/XT20/X-H1 or A1/A2/A3/A5/XT-100
  • After (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Fast & Reliable with Stunning Video (even beating out Sony A7-III to win Cinema5d best video camera of 2018). Sadly, there are currently only 2 models with fast relaible AF: $1499 XT3 and $899 XT30

5 years ago, I choose M43 over Fuji because Fuji AF was too darn slow & unrelable. But today in 2019, I would heavily consider $899 Fuji X-T30 vs $899 Sony A6400. Currently, these 2 camera have the fastest mirrorless AF, and the most reliable AF tracking that glued to the face. Sony Real-time Tracking AF is amazing, as is Fuji's latest face detection.

That's just a game of leap-frog. No sooner do you change to the very latest update from one brand, than the brand you just left releases their latest tech and leap-frog's you.

Loser's game.

But that's not what's happening in the last few years. What seems to be happening is that m43rds is starting to be left behind. That EPL9 should have had the 20MP sensor by then, etc.

We'll see what happens next.

Choosing cameras based on the MP count is a mug's game, MP do not improve IQ, for example an old Nikon D3s at only 12mp still has better low light performance than many more modern cameras with 24mp or more. It never ceases to amaze me when I see people count that as a main factor.

So we could all use a 12mp m4/3 sensor then. Is that what you are saying I did and I'm not going back to it.

Is there something wrong with the 20mp m4/3 sensors. If not, then why not want one in a camera we want.

Megapixels might not matter to you, but lets not write everyone off. I crop every single shot I take. Megapixels are only one part of the sensor.

I'm pretty sure we all realise that When they increase the mp rate, it's been fairly obvious that other improvements come with it. Surely no one is silly enough not to know that.

So lets not jump to conclusions and think that people just want extra megapixels without other benefits to go with it. I certainly have my reasons for wanting it and I'm not stupid enough to not know why.

Danny.

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SirPalomid
SirPalomid Contributing Member • Posts: 782
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

Well, I did. Once I had Fuji X-E1, and decided that I need better AF and went with Olympus E-M1 alongside for a long time, but then I bought X-T1, and couple of years back - X100F. Sold my E-M1 but kept m4/3 lenses (12-40/2.8 and 40-150/2.8), and decided to go back to m4/3 last year, because there are no alternatives to this 2 Pro zooms in Fuji lineup, and bought a E-M1.2.

Currently, I use either E-M1.2 or X100F for different reasons, Olympus is more versatile, but I still love output and colors from Fuji more. Also, manual dials are pleasure to use, instead of Olympus menu mess, Fuji is simplier and more logical.

What puts me out of staying completely with Fuji - their f1.4 primes are slow to focus, no OIS / IBIS. Does not matter what you put on Olympus - it is stabilized, very handy for travel / museum / cathedral / landscapes and etc.

But I love my X100F as "go-to" camera, when photography is not a main subject of a trip / walkaround, just put it in a small bag or coat pocket, no hassle with "what lenses to take", wonderful manual controls and etc.

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Kiwisnap Contributing Member • Posts: 772
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

FWIW I moved from Nikon FX to MFT.

Do I regret that? No, not at all.

It suits me just fine. Is it perfect? No. Nothing is.

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tenthwashfree Regular Member • Posts: 112
Of course not!
1

Once you’ve done Fuji, there’s no going back

Ozonation wrote:

Not trying to start a flame war but I asked over in the Fuji forum... replies were very informative and civil! Most went from m4/3 to Fuji and stayed. I'm wondering if there any who went from Fuji to m4/3, or maybe returned to m4/3.

As a note, I run three systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus/Panasonic). Not exactly by design: just evolved over the years. I am considering consolidating down my systems.

TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 8,103
Re: Of course not!
5

tenthwashfree wrote:

Once you’ve done Fuji, there’s no going back

I did Fuji in 1979, it was called a Canon A-1.

And you are right. I'm not going back.

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keepfocused Regular Member • Posts: 330
Re: Gassy frogs leaping into a bottomless pit of wasted money and misery
1

It would be great if M4/3 could leap frog the X-T3 etc.. just not sure it will..

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tenthwashfree Regular Member • Posts: 112
Re: Of course not!
1

My first was the AE-1, how I loved it, but there’s no going back

TN Args wrote:

tenthwashfree wrote:

Once you’ve done Fuji, there’s no going back

I did Fuji in 1979, it was called a Canon A-1.

And you are right. I'm not going back.

Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 38,652
Re: Gassy frogs leaping into a bottomless pit of wasted money and misery
2

Cagey75 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

TN Args wrote:

007peter wrote:

Before you ask this question, it would HELP to differentiate between 2 Fujis!

  • Before (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Slow & Unreliable with horrible video. I would not recommend buying older XT1/XT2/XT20/X-H1 or A1/A2/A3/A5/XT-100
  • After (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Fast & Reliable with Stunning Video (even beating out Sony A7-III to win Cinema5d best video camera of 2018). Sadly, there are currently only 2 models with fast relaible AF: $1499 XT3 and $899 XT30

5 years ago, I choose M43 over Fuji because Fuji AF was too darn slow & unrelable. But today in 2019, I would heavily consider $899 Fuji X-T30 vs $899 Sony A6400. Currently, these 2 camera have the fastest mirrorless AF, and the most reliable AF tracking that glued to the face. Sony Real-time Tracking AF is amazing, as is Fuji's latest face detection.

That's just a game of leap-frog. No sooner do you change to the very latest update from one brand, than the brand you just left releases their latest tech and leap-frog's you.

Loser's game.

But that's not what's happening in the last few years. What seems to be happening is that m43rds is starting to be left behind. That EPL9 should have had the 20MP sensor by then, etc.

We'll see what happens next.

Choosing cameras based on the MP count is a mug's game, MP do not improve IQ,

as I have said multiple times- it’s not that the 20mp sensor just has. Ore resolution- it is that it’s also better.

for example an old Nikon D3s at only 12mp still has better low light performance than many more modern cameras with 24mp or more. It never ceases to amaze me when I see people count that as a main factor.

well, I am not in that set. Read above.

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jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,332
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

Raist3d wrote:

Ozonation wrote:

Not trying to start a flame war but I asked over in the Fuji forum... replies were very informative and civil! Most went from m4/3 to Fuji and stayed. I'm wondering if there any who went from Fuji to m4/3, or maybe returned to m4/3.

As a note, I run three systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus/Panasonic). Not exactly by design: just evolved over the years. I am considering consolidating down my systems.

I have bounced off Fuji and m43rds about twice, but I came back to m43rds for the Olympus 75mm lens which is small and a focal length I use. I find the 20MP sensor in the PenF as characterized by Olympus in the PenF and in Raw on the GX9 a "Fuji envy cure" in that while I still find the Fuji sensor a tad better, the 20 MP m43rds sensor is "good enough."

Funny, although I think my 75 has great IQ,I really don't get along with the FL.  My Sigma 60 2.8 works better for me.

In my case is a bout size, and that's the lens that brought me back. If Fuji ever releases a small "XF 90" @ F3.5/F4.0, I may go there.

Their upcoming 16-80 f4 lens has my attention.  Seems like it could be just about the perfect all around lens.  Can't wait to see some tests of it.

I also think their 55-200 is a masterful job of balancing FL range, aperture, size and IQ.  Wish m43 had some in between lenses (not pro/fastest and not amateur) like that.

Their 14 2.8 also looks great.  No prime like it in m43.

I really think they have the best lens lineup of anyone and there is more 3rd party lenses to choose from than m43.

Right now I am waiting to see what happens with the EM5 MKIII (or whatever 'surprise model' may come in its place). If that card is not played right, I may seriously consider going Fuji XT30.

I like the GX9 quite a bit and I also want to see some things improved, but I am at the moment sort of lost faith Panasonic cares enough about m43rds to make the advances necessary.

Although I love my G9 I have to wonder how much effort Panny will put forth in the future regarding m43.  Certainly in the near future their effort is being concentrated elsewhere.

So I think Olympus cares, but they need to play their cards right.

Yeah I guess we discussed that enough.

That said, even though I went back from Fuji, I really appreciate what they are doing and their lenses.

In the ideal world, the post-GM5 camera would have come with DFD 2, faster processing and the 20 MP sensor by Panasonic but that never happened and it's not happening.

Many wish that, myself included.  Doubt it happens either.

-- hide signature --

Jonathan

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,332
Not always ...
2

TN Args wrote:

007peter wrote:

Before you ask this question, it would HELP to differentiate between 2 Fujis!

  • Before (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Slow & Unreliable with horrible video. I would not recommend buying older XT1/XT2/XT20/X-H1 or A1/A2/A3/A5/XT-100
  • After (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Fast & Reliable with Stunning Video (even beating out Sony A7-III to win Cinema5d best video camera of 2018). Sadly, there are currently only 2 models with fast relaible AF: $1499 XT3 and $899 XT30

5 years ago, I choose M43 over Fuji because Fuji AF was too darn slow & unrelable. But today in 2019, I would heavily consider $899 Fuji X-T30 vs $899 Sony A6400. Currently, these 2 camera have the fastest mirrorless AF, and the most reliable AF tracking that glued to the face. Sony Real-time Tracking AF is amazing, as is Fuji's latest face detection.

That's just a game of leap-frog. No sooner do you change to the very latest update from one brand, than the brand you just left releases their latest tech and leap-frog's you.

Loser's game.

Sometimes a manufacturer makes a big leap (or just manages to get everything right) that makes them worth changing to.  Kind of like the EM5 with m43.  That camera really made m43 a viable alternative to other brands.  The XT-3/30 is really doing the same ting for Fuji.  That is when they finally had it all come together.

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Jonathan

NorCal Jim
NorCal Jim Regular Member • Posts: 352
Re: Of course not!

tenthwashfree wrote:

My first was the AE-1, how I loved it, but there’s no going back

TN Args wrote:

tenthwashfree wrote:

Once you’ve done Fuji, there’s no going back

I did Fuji in 1979, it was called a Canon A-1.

And you are right. I'm not going back.

Now that's a blast from the past!  Love it--very clever!!!

Jim

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NorCal Jim
NorCal Jim Regular Member • Posts: 352
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?
2

RED i wrote:

Who cares what people do.

This was my initial reaction to this post (right before "Here we go again!").

After reading through this thread and coming to the hilarious Canon A1 & AE1 posts, I was glad that I didn't skip this topic.

Additionally, I have noticed words like return or (in other similar topics) switching, implying choosing one system over another.  Why not dual or multi-system choices?  Obviously, it makes economic sense to use a single system but sometimes a single system doesn't meet all of our requirements.

The Sony a6000 was a compelling reason for me to invest in Sony APS-C but I didn't care for some of the trade-offs (e.g., video overheating issue).  I decided to proceed with my plan to invest in the Sony system but purchased a Panasonic GH3 & 12-35mm f/2.8 lens for video. Eventually, I became so deeply immeshed in both system to not want to consolidate.  There is no way I would give up my Olympus IBIS and 2x2 dual wheel direct controls nor do I see myself moving away from Sony (especially with the introduction of the a6400 & improved AF/focus tracking).  Yes, there is quite a functional overlap and I have considered plans to consolidate but am too attached to certain capabilities with each system.

Jim

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RED i Senior Member • Posts: 1,587
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?
1

NorCal Jim wrote:

RED i wrote:

Who cares what people do.

This was my initial reaction to this post (right before "Here we go again!").

After reading through this thread and coming to the hilarious Canon A1 & AE1 posts, I was glad that I didn't skip this topic.

Additionally, I have noticed words like return or (in other similar topics) switching, implying choosing one system over another. Why not dual or multi-system choices? Obviously, it makes economic sense to use a single system but sometimes a single system doesn't meet all of our requirements.

The Sony a6000 was a compelling reason for me to invest in Sony APS-C but I didn't care for some of the trade-offs (e.g., video overheating issue). I decided to proceed with my plan to invest in the Sony system but purchased a Panasonic GH3 & 12-35mm f/2.8 lens for video. Eventually, I became so deeply immeshed in both system to not want to consolidate. There is no way I would give up my Olympus IBIS and 2x2 dual wheel direct controls nor do I see myself moving away from Sony (especially with the introduction of the a6400 & improved AF/focus tracking). Yes, there is quite a functional overlap and I have considered plans to consolidate but am too attached to certain capabilities with each system.

Jim

To me it just sounds weird asking people what your own choice of gear should be based on if they jumped ship back and forth. Unless you need 10's of different lenses there is SO much cheap used good gear out there, having two systems is pretty easy now.

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Cagey75
Cagey75 Contributing Member • Posts: 946
Re: Megapixels

nzmacro wrote:

Cagey75 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

TN Args wrote:

007peter wrote:

Before you ask this question, it would HELP to differentiate between 2 Fujis!

  • Before (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Slow & Unreliable with horrible video. I would not recommend buying older XT1/XT2/XT20/X-H1 or A1/A2/A3/A5/XT-100
  • After (2018 XT-3) Fuji camera AF were Fast & Reliable with Stunning Video (even beating out Sony A7-III to win Cinema5d best video camera of 2018). Sadly, there are currently only 2 models with fast relaible AF: $1499 XT3 and $899 XT30

5 years ago, I choose M43 over Fuji because Fuji AF was too darn slow & unrelable. But today in 2019, I would heavily consider $899 Fuji X-T30 vs $899 Sony A6400. Currently, these 2 camera have the fastest mirrorless AF, and the most reliable AF tracking that glued to the face. Sony Real-time Tracking AF is amazing, as is Fuji's latest face detection.

That's just a game of leap-frog. No sooner do you change to the very latest update from one brand, than the brand you just left releases their latest tech and leap-frog's you.

Loser's game.

But that's not what's happening in the last few years. What seems to be happening is that m43rds is starting to be left behind. That EPL9 should have had the 20MP sensor by then, etc.

We'll see what happens next.

Choosing cameras based on the MP count is a mug's game, MP do not improve IQ, for example an old Nikon D3s at only 12mp still has better low light performance than many more modern cameras with 24mp or more. It never ceases to amaze me when I see people count that as a main factor.

So we could all use a 12mp m4/3 sensor then. Is that what you are saying I did and I'm not going back to it.

Is there something wrong with the 20mp m4/3 sensors. If not, then why not want one in a camera we want.

Megapixels might not matter to you, but lets not write everyone off. I crop every single shot I take. Megapixels are only one part of the sensor.

I'm pretty sure we all realise that When they increase the mp rate, it's been fairly obvious that other improvements come with it. Surely no one is silly enough not to know that.

So lets not jump to conclusions and think that people just want extra megapixels without other benefits to go with it. I certainly have my reasons for wanting it and I'm not stupid enough to not know why.

Danny.

If you select your cameras based on mp count then you are more a gearhead than photographer.  Doesn't matter how much you can convince yourself otherwise.   And that's fine, you know what you want good for you. But if that's all you care about you're much better off looking outside of M43 tbh, as it's not going to rise above 20mp, and that 20mp is barely any better in any way to the 16mp one in my G80.   You can look up side by side comparisons - plenty on youtube.

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Bisonbison
Bisonbison Regular Member • Posts: 316
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

Ozonation wrote:

Not trying to start a flame war but I asked over in the Fuji forum... replies were very informative and civil! Most went from m4/3 to Fuji and stayed. I'm wondering if there any who went from Fuji to m4/3, or maybe returned to m4/3.

As a note, I run three systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus/Panasonic). Not exactly by design: just evolved over the years. I am considering consolidating down my systems.

Well I’m looking to sell my fuji kit and get an em1.1 and 100-400mm plus 12-100mm. For what it’s worth, while Fuji is excellent. Mft has a better selection of top quality lenses. There are a few gaps I’d like to fill a specifically long telephoto and general travel lens, where the mft options are compellingly compact compared to Fuji.

Bisonbison
Bisonbison Regular Member • Posts: 316
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

Albert Valentino wrote:

I shoot almost exclusively at ISO 200 and DxO takes care of any noise.

just to clarify your comment above. Are you seeing a lot of noise at ISO 200, which DXO is able to take care of? How well does DXO work at higher ISOs? Say around 1600?

Im asking seriously as I am considering adding a Mft to my kit. I currently use Fuji.

SkiHound Veteran Member • Posts: 3,575
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?
1

Perhaps I have bad eyes. I'm not young anymore. I don't see any noise in any decently exposed m43 images at iso 200. Perhaps if you look at 100+% you could see something if you're looking for noise, but no one actually views images like that. I once hear Jay Maisel say something to the effect of "a little noise never ruined a good image." I've seen people trying to pick really large prints (1 meter on on the long end) made by m43 bodies and ff bodies and not being able to pick based on technical IQ. A larger sensor gathers more light, and light is signal, so at some point the advantages become meaningful. And if you're shooting jpeg then the jpeg engine may be a make it or break it choice for some.

Adielle
Adielle Senior Member • Posts: 1,453
Decision based on need.

I have interchangeable and fixed lens cameras from several companies. They have their advantages and disadvantages. My GX8 has the least disadvantages among the ILC and the lenses I use with it are especially great. I don't need "brand loyalty" BS. I use what I find best. If I find a different "format" or company to offer a better solution, I'll use that one. I don't see it happening any time soon.

RED i Senior Member • Posts: 1,587
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

SkiHound wrote:

Perhaps I have bad eyes. I'm not young anymore. I don't see any noise in any decently exposed m43 images at iso 200. Perhaps if you look at 100+% you could see something if you're looking for noise, but no one actually views images like that. I once hear Jay Maisel say something to the effect of "a little noise never ruined a good image." I've seen people trying to pick really large prints (1 meter on on the long end) made by m43 bodies and ff bodies and not being able to pick based on technical IQ. A larger sensor gathers more light, and light is signal, so at some point the advantages become meaningful. And if you're shooting jpeg then the jpeg engine may be a make it or break it choice for some.

If the image is good no one except for gear idiots will care about some image noise. With my A7s I shoot 12800 regularly at night for hand held night shots. Do I care about the noise, not really just got to make sure the subject matter and lighting is interesting enough to be shown.

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Lars101x Regular Member • Posts: 334
Re: Anybody come to or return to m4/3 after using Fuji?

j0sh wrote:

Ozonation wrote:

Not trying to start a flame war but I asked over in the Fuji forum... replies were very informative and civil! Most went from m4/3 to Fuji and stayed. I'm wondering if there any who went from Fuji to m4/3, or maybe returned to m4/3.

As a note, I run three systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus/Panasonic). Not exactly by design: just evolved over the years. I am considering consolidating down my systems.

I’ve “downgraded” from a Sony a7 to a Fuji xpro2 and now to an Olympus omd em1 2. Everything in the last 4 years.

I would have called that a major upgrade.

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