No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Alex Permit
Alex Permit Senior Member • Posts: 2,335
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

VBLondon wrote:

Veloster75 wrote:

DWM wrote:

Clearly, the Z series is not for you. None of what you list as drawbacks matter to me and my needs, and many conflict.

Larger Body - Absolutely not.

Two card slots - Couldn't care less.

Top Display - Perfectly functional for my uses.

Battery Grip - I never have used the ones I have purchased for my other Nikons, so not an issue.

Calling a camera "half baked" because of conscious design decisions that don't meet your needs is a little harsh, eh?

Perfect reply.

+1

On two card slots, I also couldn't care, except that it'd make the body bigger, so I actively prefer 1.

Same here. My D500 has two card slots, an SD and an XQD. If i use both, the camera takes longer to write, since its writes at the slower SD rate. So my SD card slot goes empty.

I'm happy the Z7 doesn't waste space with a useless (to me) second SD slot.  Two XQD slots would take up even more space.

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Twitchly
Twitchly Senior Member • Posts: 1,039
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

whimsicalmike wrote:

Twitchly wrote:

Now if I could just find an XQD card reader with a USB-C connector ...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Professional-Type-C-SD-XQD-Card-Reader-USB-3-0-Adapter-USB-Type-C-Hub-High-Speed/312393578520?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Works well

Thanks. I didn’t think to check eBay. The price is certainly better than Sony’s reader.

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dv312
dv312 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,597
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
3

I'm Ok with the body size and ergo

Add to it an Arca plate at the bottom and the handling is perfect for the dangling pinky

As to battery, yes, a better one would be called for like Sony's; however, not a deal breaker since one can carry a spare or 2 for mirrorless as always

I'd have liked to see the use of SD cards rather than XQD, single slot being fine with me

What prevents me from getting today's Z is the weakness of the AFC in being able to handle birds in flight since birding is my main genre

Maybe next Z would have a AFC system on par with Sony A9 or better

I 'll be patient

Cheers,

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Sara Valentine Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

anotherMike wrote:

I can achieve pretty damned consistent manual focus through the 850 viewfinder from F/4 up in terms of nailing it.

That's not a high bar considering typical focusing screens, "digital rangefinder" aids and effective 20/20 vision. The real bar is at f/1.4 - f/2.8 with focus-shifting lenses.

In terms of AF, the Z7 isn't bad, but a recent session with the Canon R, well, let's just say I was somewhat embarrassed at how much better the Canons R AF locked onto things. It wasn't even close. I'd almost go as far to say that if the Canon R was higher in the resolution count, with that amazing 28-70/2 R mount lens, I would no longer be a Nikon shooter.

What EV range were the subjects and what apertures were you using to take the images?

Rumors are starting to trickle out about a 60-70 MP R

So you didn't find single-shot, precision AF-S on a Z to be any better than what you can get out of a D850?

OP JMD-70 Senior Member • Posts: 1,859
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
1

Geomaticsman wrote:

JMD-70 wrote:

So, I ask,...what are you waiting for in a MILC system from Nikon?

No waiting here...I bought a Z7. But what I'd love to have is a 'Z' that can replace my D850 for birding. The Z7/Z6 can't, but just to be clear, nobody, and I mean NOBODY makes a camera -- mirrorless or otherwise - that can replace my D850 for birding. And to be honest I don't think anyone will for a long, long time.

Sir,..understood!  I just entered the D850 class destroyer!  I've seen lots of great images others have captured with the D850,....and to be honest, the D850 is what I was asking Nikon to do years ago,...the one thing they didn't include was Wireless image transfer to PC,...direct from Camera without a standalone transmitter!

I think it's safe to say that we're all in should Nikon designed a MILC D850 killer,...I'd put  on my bucket list!

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JMD
...D500 x2 //  WT-7 x2!
......Nikon forever,...for now!

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OP JMD-70 Senior Member • Posts: 1,859
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

anotherMike wrote:

Not too much, but what is missing is critical enough that I went the D850 route instead.

1) Sync speed. I shoot dancers in the studio from time to time, 1/200th won't cut it, 1/250th starts to.

2) I have a VAST preference for OVF over EVF for studio work, particularly so given the Z7 EVF, while nice when you're not moving (it really is an excellent EVF in static situations, clear, bright), is too "swimmy" when you move, and I do so in the studio. I think the refresh rate should have been higher. Even the puny little Sony A6400 has a steadier EVF, although not as bright/contrasty.

3) AF. Flat out, the D850 AF is superior, now that I've used both. Not. Even. Close. And for those who say they can't get consistent accurate repeatable manual focus with an OVF in the D850, well, a couple of sessions with mtfmapper, and practice (just like the old days), I can achieve pretty damned consistent manual focus through the 850 viewfinder from F/4 up in terms of nailing it. Just takes practice and learning, like I did when I shot dance with manual focus bodies in the 80's. Yes, the Z7 would have advantages in this arena with the on-sensor AF, but it turns out, at least for me, they are not as strongly advantageous as I initially would have thought. In terms of AF, the Z7 isn't bad, but a recent session with the Canon R, well, let's just say I was somewhat embarrassed at how much better the Canons R AF locked onto things. It wasn't even close. I'd almost go as far to say that if the Canon R was higher in the resolution count, with that amazing 28-70/2 R mount lens, I would no longer be a Nikon shooter. THAT is one impressive lens that Nikon has *nothing* even close to. And I'm far from a Canon fan, so it pains me somewhat to type that.

4) Better files with no banding. For 3+ grand, I expect clean files at base ISO, and I don't get that from the Z7.

5) I already have a best-in-class/near-best-in-class F mount lens collection (meaning, very little Nikon glass, mostly Zeiss and Sigma Art), and I simply don't have the funds to re-purchase all of that again in z mount at this time, so the new lenses, while quite nice for the size/price, don't hold as much interest for me.

Now, does that mean I wouldn't buy a Z? If I did not shoot studio work predominantly and landscape secondarily, I would have bought a Z7, even with it's flaws, because I really truly do like that camera a lot. But I buy after careful analysis of my needs vs what the competing products strengths/weaknesses are, and for me, the d850 is easily the superior choice for my work and I have no regrets. Others have obviously made the opposite choice, which is fine. The Z7 might be the perfect camera for many, many photographers, but it wasn't for me - just a few items short of where I felt it needed to be.

So I'll wait for the next (higher) Z model that addresses the (few) Z7 flaws.

-m

I like all of your reasons,...as they seem quite reasonable to me!  Thank you....good shooting!

Oh!  I got the D850!  Too...

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JMD
...D500 x2 //  WT-7 x2!
......Nikon forever,...for now!

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OP JMD-70 Senior Member • Posts: 1,859
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

Brian Homer wrote:

Someone without a Z telling us how rubbish they are - again. I've got one. It's great and it's not half-baked. Maybe there should be a separate Z's are Duds Forum?

Brian,...for what it's worth! I think the Z Series is a step in the right direction for Nikon's take on MILC! As for saying that the Z Series are rubbish,...I don't think you'll find that word in my post,...as I clearly stated,...the Z Series are "Half-Baked"! Now,...I totally get it,...as I'm sure the Z6 / Z7 2.0 versions will be Grand Slam hits!,....because if they aren't, not one single current Z6/Z7 owner would upgrade! And certainly,...current D850 owners wouldn't move to the Z system either!

So, Nikon has no choices but to make the next Z Series bodies Great,...or leave MILC to Sony,...Panasonic,..and or whomever else wants to offer betterr features and capabilities in their MILC bodies!

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JMD
...D500 x2 // WT-7 x2!
......Nikon forever,...for now!

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TimRUK Forum Member • Posts: 66
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
2

I bought a Z6 + Adaptor + 24-70 lens on March 6th, trouble is that the vendor didn't have it and I got ripped off, still waiting for PayPal to refund me. That's why I don't have one yet.

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MeVee Regular Member • Posts: 114
Tracking Autofocus
6

JMD-70 wrote:

So, I ask,...what are you waiting for in a MILC system from Nikon?

I'm waiting for 3D tracking & continuous autofocus performance that's as easy and as quick to use and delivers results as consistent and controllable as Nikon's comparably-priced FX DSLRs.

Had a Z7, then a Z6 on rental and shot extensively. I concluded that both the AF-C / tracking core capabilities and the UI need to be improved to land me as a customer.

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OP JMD-70 Senior Member • Posts: 1,859
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
1

TimRUK wrote:

I bought a Z6 + Adaptor + 24-70 lens on March 6th, trouble is that the vendor didn't have it and I got ripped off, still waiting for PayPal to refund me. That's why I don't have one yet.

...hope you get your funds back!

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JMD
...D500 x2 //  WT-7 x2!
......Nikon forever,...for now!

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Franglais91 Contributing Member • Posts: 893
Need more lenses + lots of other reasons
3

JMD-70 wrote:

I'm looking to return to Nikon FF,....and I'm itching for a D810,...D850,...(can get right away),...or even a Z series body. However, I feel that I would have a more 'complete' camera system if I were to go with a D810 or D850,...as the appropriate accessories already exist in full un-crippled form for those bodies. If I were to jump to the Z system, I'd have a body that 1) has a smaller Top Display, One Card Slot,...and a proposed Non-Functional battery "Holder".

That said, I personally think Nikon should have not tried to "Be So Much Like Sony!",...and designed the new Z bodies along the size similar to what Panasonic did with their S1 and S1R. Those bodies,...IMHO, are "Homerun" bodies when it comes to their form factor! And those that yearn for a more complete "DSLR" feel would have a more satisfying experience with the new Z Series bodies. And! If Nikon had incorporated Dual XQD card slots,...or a XQD / SD card slots setup,...with a proper Top Display size,...a la D850!,....and with a proper battery grip,...perhaps the new Z bodies would be a Grand-Slam-Homerun hits as well!

Also, I can only imagine a Z Series body of larger dimensions,...where the smaller EN-EL15b battery could be used with a 'butt' adapter,....and Nikon released a larger (longer) higher capacity EN-EL15b-E (extended version) battery designed along the same with/height of the current EN-EL15b. This battery's capacity and Voltage would be on par with the EN-EL18 battery. So, the end result would be a body smaller than the DX series,...and larger than the DXXX series. This would yield a body more suited for balance when larger glass is mounted. Basically,....an MILC D850! It best have a "O" viewfinder too!!!!

That said,...this is the primary reason I have not jumped to the Z system,...as I couldn't buy-in on a half baked system!

....case in point for 'half-baked',....I've yet to see the Z system's battery holder for sale,..and ask, does any Z owners have this item yet?

So, I ask,...what are you waiting for in a MILC system from Nikon?

I have two FF Nikon DSLR bodies and all the F lenses that I need. I Don't like electronic viewfinders. I find that the Z bodies are too small. That's a lot of reasons not to pick up the Z system. Things that would get me to change (progressively) to the Z system:

1. Z lenses in focal lengths that I actually find useful that are optically better than the F lenses that I have. This means being able to use the lenses wide open and get results that are "sharp enough" center and corner. With my F lenses I have to close down 1-2 stops. My current most useful F lenses aren't even on the Z roadmap yet (24-120 f4, 70-200 f4, 28-300, 50mm f1.4)

2. Smartphone image processing straight out of the camera Embedded in the RAW file. My Smartphone often does a really good job in processing images to look good. I have to put a lot of work into post-processing my RAW files to get a better effect. If I could have a FF camera that could do the same thing it would save me a lot of time in the lab

3. Camera performance that is almost as good as my D850 i.e. autofocus, exposure, low light performance. I Don't think the Z series is there yet

4. Bigger body to be able to hold onto big lenses or else a battery grip.

5. Better battery life. The D850 is amazing. The only time I've had to change batteries is when using Liveview

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olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,443
Peronally I think that...
4

...this thread should be moved to the FX forum.

This is the Nikon Z forum, and I guess that 90% (or more) of those active here actually HAVE the Nikon Z, so asking here why we don't get the Z is a bit awkward and pointless.

I dumped my D800 back in November as soon as the Z7 became available. The reasons were many, and all those are valid even today. If I could turn back time I'd do it even today, not a single moment of regret so far.

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armin304 Contributing Member • Posts: 521
Re: Peronally I think that...
4

olyflyer wrote:

...this thread should be moved to the FX forum.

Where it doesn't belong, since this thread is about the Nikon Z and the reasons an originally interested person didn't buy one.

This is the Nikon Z forum, and I guess that 90% (or more) of those active here actually HAVE the Nikon Z, so asking here why we don't get the Z is a bit awkward and pointless.

The Nikon Z forum is for everyone interested in the Nikon Z, not only the actual owners.

I dumped my D800 back in November as soon as the Z7 became available. The reasons were many, and all those are valid even today. If I could turn back time I'd do it even today, not a single moment of regret so far.

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 470
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
2

- waiting to see if price drops on z6/7 in the short term only

- selling d750 - now done

- selling tamron lenses that might not work with z e.g. sp70-300 + afp 70-300 dx sold awaiting used afp70-300 fx delivery

- selling screw drives e.g. 180 af-d

- awaiting some more results of using w/a rf lenses ( not leica ) on z6 especially and sony e-z adapters or contax g to z direct adapter availability.

only the last point is really holding me up - if it's resolved i'll get the z6 ( not z7 - too expensive for me )  and sell my a7

interim using d500 which i am not selling - ever

richard

TimRUK Forum Member • Posts: 66
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
1

JMD-70 wrote:

TimRUK wrote:

I bought a Z6 + Adaptor + 24-70 lens on March 6th, trouble is that the vendor didn't have it and I got ripped off, still waiting for PayPal to refund me. That's why I don't have one yet.

...hope you get your funds back!

Thanks JMD, I also paid Paypal using a credit card so I'm covered both ways, I'll use a more reputable retailer next time.

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cerj Regular Member • Posts: 369
Re: Peronally I think that...
4

armin304 wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

...this thread should be moved to the FX forum.

Where it doesn't belong, since this thread is about the Nikon Z and the reasons an originally interested person didn't buy one.

This is the Nikon Z forum, and I guess that 90% (or more) of those active here actually HAVE the Nikon Z, so asking here why we don't get the Z is a bit awkward and pointless.

The Nikon Z forum is for everyone interested in the Nikon Z, not only the actual owners.

I dumped my D800 back in November as soon as the Z7 became available. The reasons were many, and all those are valid even today. If I could turn back time I'd do it even today, not a single moment of regret so far.

The op never had an intention to purchase a Z, he opened with wanting a D8xx.  If he had actual interest the post would be more questioning then acting as if he really knows the camera

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,295
Thread moved to fx forum
7

Better fit for the thread subject.

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straitouttahell
straitouttahell Contributing Member • Posts: 500
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?
2

I am waiting that Z7 bodies in mint condition with 9000 actuations appear used for 900$. That's how I bought my D800.

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T O Shooter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,585
Re: Thread moved to fx forum
6

TOF guy wrote:

Better fit for the thread subject.

You should have supplied some barf bags for the love-in you transferred here. Someone says "I love my Z" then immediately 122 "likes" when on the Z forum. Barf.

Z7 you have a 46mp sensor and little else. If you had put that sensor in a D50 you'd have had just as good a body.

It's amazing that you get the great sensor and add nothing more than the attributes of an ML system and it turns into a love in. Mostly Nikon fanboys but what the hell. Pass another bag.

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Stan Disbrow Veteran Member • Posts: 3,578
Re: No "Z" Yet - What's Your Reason?

Hi,

Wow. That is the worst reason I have heard yet. Or, probably will hear. That just stinks. For you, of course, but also for anyone else they snagged.

It is even worse because you wound up all excited about getting new kit. I hate it when this happens. You will get it eventually because of the safeguards in place, but it takes extra time. Sigh.

Stan

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