for all FF BS, fuji told the real story, 1/3 market by value, by unit much lower Locked

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OP Jefftan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,182
Re: It's easy to slap an IBIS badge on a camera.......

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

i don't care CIPA, A6500 claim 5 stop ibis

i have it and is not even close

"no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves" is true

i have to add, i use A6500 with 10-18 with OIS, maybe the ibis and ois is fighting with each other, whatever it just don't work

i order 16mm f1.4 with no OIS, i will see if A6500 ibis really so bad or not

Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 5,803
Re: Well my A7 II 5 axis IBIS is nowhere close to my EM1 MKII????

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

You say "there are NO standard", I give you a link to the standard.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,178
Re: It's easy to slap an IBIS badge on a camera.......

Jefftan wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

i don't care CIPA, A6500 claim 5 stop ibis

i have it and is not even close

"no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves" is true

i have to add, i use A6500 with 10-18 with OIS, maybe the ibis and ois is fighting with each other, whatever it just don't work

i order 16mm f1.4 with no OIS, i will see if A6500 ibis really so bad or not

That's the real problem with standards, they tend to be over-objective.

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Ride easy, William.
Bob

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,513
If ...

Jefftan wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

i don't care CIPA, A6500 claim 5 stop ibis

i have it and is not even close

"no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves" is true

i have to add, i use A6500 with 10-18 with OIS, maybe the ibis and ois is fighting with each other, whatever it just don't work

i order 16mm f1.4 with no OIS, i will see if A6500 ibis really so bad or not

If the standard is overstating the effectiveness of the IBIS in your Sony, then it's doing the same thing for every other camera including those made by Olympus and Panasonic.

-- hide signature --

Jonathan

Messier Object
Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 8,406
Re: It's easy to slap an IBIS badge on a camera.......

bobn2 wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

i don't care CIPA, A6500 claim 5 stop ibis

i have it and is not even close

"no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves" is true

i have to add, i use A6500 with 10-18 with OIS, maybe the ibis and ois is fighting with each other, whatever it just don't work

i order 16mm f1.4 with no OIS, i will see if A6500 ibis really so bad or not

That's the real problem with standards, they tend to be over-objective.

No, the real problem with standards is that people like to quote results, but never bother to read the Standard document

Peter

Yandrosxx Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: Where have ...

jwilliams wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

NjoyCam wrote:

Fuji is the real danger for m43 system.
Fuji offers at least equivalent cameras at cheaper prices.
We do not need to discuss the quality of their lenses.
Even Sony, Canon and Nikon must fear Fuij because they have much less APS-C lenses on offer.

i don't think so

no ibis, annoying x-trans

Where have you been? Fuji has had IBIS for a while now. It is in the XH-1. As for the other bodies if you are shooting zooms you have IS also.

Fuji probably has some of the best cameras and lenses out there right now. M43 and everyone else should worry about them. They have been releasing better cameras at a quick pace. The X-H1 is on the older of the line, but soon the X-H2 will be out. If they just add the sensor and video of the XT3/30 I cannot think of any APSC or m43 camera that is better. I'd say the same of the XT-3 right now if it had IBIS.

There must be a lot of fear among the m43 faithful of Fuji since people seem to need to bash them with totally invalid points.

For a long time m43 had the IBIS advantage all to itself. That has been gone for a while now. m43 can't rest on its past laurels.

Edit: Just noticed the XT-3 won the DPR award for the best camera under $1500 beating the EM5 II and Pen F. Horrible camera apparently Would have been interesting to see where they ranked it compared to the EM1 II, but it didn't make the cost cut being overpriced and all. I am wondering why the Panny G9 wasn't in there as it is priced at $1200 in the US and it is definitely the best m43 camera available at this time.

They released the XT3 with no IBIS.  While there are plenty of other issues with Fuji products, I'm not sure what else needs to be said... Big long lenses? Crap ergonomics? Junk Weather sealing? Not pioneering any worthwhile technologies?  Not sure what m4/3 is supposed to fear.

James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 5,101
Re: Where have ...

Yandrosxx wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

NjoyCam wrote:

Fuji is the real danger for m43 system.
Fuji offers at least equivalent cameras at cheaper prices.
We do not need to discuss the quality of their lenses.
Even Sony, Canon and Nikon must fear Fuij because they have much less APS-C lenses on offer.

i don't think so

no ibis, annoying x-trans

Where have you been? Fuji has had IBIS for a while now. It is in the XH-1. As for the other bodies if you are shooting zooms you have IS also.

Fuji probably has some of the best cameras and lenses out there right now. M43 and everyone else should worry about them. They have been releasing better cameras at a quick pace. The X-H1 is on the older of the line, but soon the X-H2 will be out. If they just add the sensor and video of the XT3/30 I cannot think of any APSC or m43 camera that is better. I'd say the same of the XT-3 right now if it had IBIS.

There must be a lot of fear among the m43 faithful of Fuji since people seem to need to bash them with totally invalid points.

For a long time m43 had the IBIS advantage all to itself. That has been gone for a while now. m43 can't rest on its past laurels.

Edit: Just noticed the XT-3 won the DPR award for the best camera under $1500 beating the EM5 II and Pen F. Horrible camera apparently Would have been interesting to see where they ranked it compared to the EM1 II, but it didn't make the cost cut being overpriced and all. I am wondering why the Panny G9 wasn't in there as it is priced at $1200 in the US and it is definitely the best m43 camera available at this time.

They released the XT3 with no IBIS. While there are plenty of other issues with Fuji products, I'm not sure what else needs to be said... Big long lenses? Crap ergonomics? Junk Weather sealing? Not pioneering any worthwhile technologies? Not sure what m4/3 is supposed to fear.

I am sure that the Fuji fan boys say negative things about m43

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Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams

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OP Jefftan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,182
Re: If ...

jwilliams wrote:

If the standard is overstating the effectiveness of the IBIS in your Sony, then it's doing the same thing for every other camera including those made by Olympus and Panasonic.

u own Olympus camera?

obviously not true.  even my ancient E-PL1 ibis is better than a6500 ibis

what u said remind me of people who believe dxomark is the be all end all

by the way in my experience i doubt dxomark accuracy

now CIPA

OP Jefftan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,182
Re: Where have ...

James Stirling wrote:

They released the XT3 with no IBIS. While there are plenty of other issues with Fuji products, I'm not sure what else needs to be said... Big long lenses? Crap ergonomics? Junk Weather sealing? Not pioneering any worthwhile technologies? Not sure what m4/3 is supposed to fear.

I am sure that the Fuji fan boys say negative things about m43

i think MFT market share still much higher than fuji

market already decide which is better

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,513
I have ...

Jefftan wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

If the standard is overstating the effectiveness of the IBIS in your Sony, then it's doing the same thing for every other camera including those made by Olympus and Panasonic.

u own Olympus camera?

obviously not true. even my ancient E-PL1 ibis is better than a6500 ibis

what u said remind me of people who believe dxomark is the be all end all

by the way in my experience i doubt dxomark accuracy

now CIPA

I have owned an EPL1.  The IBIS in that camera probably ruined more shots than it saved.  It was terrible.  Any camera with IBIS ever made has better IBIS than that camera (and the EPL2 which I also owned).  Olympus finally got decent IBIS with the EM5, which I also owned, so yes I have owned Olympus cameras.

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Jonathan

OP Jefftan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,182
Re: I have ...

jwilliams wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

u own Olympus camera?

obviously not true. even my ancient E-PL1 ibis is better than a6500 ibis

what u said remind me of people who believe dxomark is the be all end all

by the way in my experience i doubt dxomark accuracy

now CIPA

I have owned an EPL1. The IBIS in that camera probably ruined more shots than it saved. It was terrible. Any camera with IBIS ever made has better IBIS than that camera (and the EPL2 which I also owned). Olympus finally got decent IBIS with the EM5, which I also owned, so yes I have owned Olympus cameras.

this is not my experience with E-PL1 ibis

JaKing
JaKing Senior Member • Posts: 5,579
Re: I have ...

Jefftan wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

u own Olympus camera?

obviously not true. even my ancient E-PL1 ibis is better than a6500 ibis

what u said remind me of people who believe dxomark is the be all end all

by the way in my experience i doubt dxomark accuracy

now CIPA

I have owned an EPL1. The IBIS in that camera probably ruined more shots than it saved. It was terrible. Any camera with IBIS ever made has better IBIS than that camera (and the EPL2 which I also owned). Olympus finally got decent IBIS with the EM5, which I also owned, so yes I have owned Olympus cameras.

this is not my experience with E-PL1 ibis

Nor mine with the IBIS in my E-510 and E-30. However, the IBIS in my brother's E-620 was not as effective as that in my E-30.

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br, john, from you know where
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VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Bob my dear, I thought we had a gentlemen's agreement dear......

bobn2 wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

Let me try to explain.

You said there is no standard.

Mark provided a link to a standard.

I think that means that you were wrong and he was right.

See our fundamental goals visiting this forum differ..... I am pro MFT and like to encourage MFT owners to enjoy, believe in, trust their equipment, hobby, share, plus plus..... You engage in endless tech bla bla to discredit the format and promote FF systems....

Yes I know you have a MFT camera parked somewhere in the garage.......

So the CIPA standard ensures Nikon IBIS or Sony IBIS equals that of the EM1 II or the EM1X........have not seen the tests, data, proof? Oh yes but when I see a IBIS logo I should assume its the same because Bob said so......

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See my Blog for short articles on the Olympus and Panasonic cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
Tech developments to wipe sensor size arguments, 3yr death countdown started Jan 2019

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VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Yes WV also followed the Diesel standard..... ;-)

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

You say "there are NO standard", I give you a link to the standard.

It's maybe a great idea to post the independent & validated tests....the proof...

See some of us went and try different cameras. I can tell you there are NO comparison between my EM1 II, the G9 and the Sony A7 II IBIS...... wonder why. Oh but do not worry there is a CIPA standard....... get real......

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See my Blog for short articles on the Olympus and Panasonic cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
Tech developments to wipe sensor size arguments, 3yr death countdown started Jan 2019

 VideoPic's gear list:VideoPic's gear list
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VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
Ouch Bob......you going to qoute your fav CIPA again in a week?

bobn2 wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

i don't care CIPA, A6500 claim 5 stop ibis

i have it and is not even close

"no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves" is true

i have to add, i use A6500 with 10-18 with OIS, maybe the ibis and ois is fighting with each other, whatever it just don't work

i order 16mm f1.4 with no OIS, i will see if A6500 ibis really so bad or not

That's the real problem with standards, they tend to be over-objective.

Get real Bob, are you doubting THE standard...... Here's a suggestion my top MFT supporter friend....

Go find a few independently verified tests that proof these IBIS logo's conveniently slapped onto some cameras does work equally good.......

But all reviews out there make readers believe ALL these manufacturers who realized just how amazing Olympus & Panasonic cameras are and then went and slapped a IBIS badge on their cameras....... these camera are as effective as Olympus.....

You a great guy Bob....love you...

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See my Blog for short articles on the Olympus and Panasonic cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
Tech developments to wipe sensor size arguments, 3yr death countdown started Jan 2019

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OP Jefftan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,182
Re: Yes WV also followed the Diesel standard..... ;-)

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

You say "there are NO standard", I give you a link to the standard.

It's maybe a great idea to post the independent & validated tests....the proof...

See some of us went and try different cameras. I can tell you there are NO comparison between my EM1 II, the G9 and the Sony A7 II IBIS...... wonder why. Oh but do not worry there is a CIPA standard....... get real......

about my CIPA claim 5 stop A6500, i don't trust CIPA

also smaller sensor because of inertia and velocity is easier to stabilize than FF or APS-C

VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,439
So what do we conclude from this discussion.....?

This discussion should have been posted on the Open forum!!!!

WOW.....so easy!!!!

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See my Blog for short articles on the Olympus and Panasonic cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
Tech developments to wipe sensor size arguments, 3yr death countdown started Jan 2019

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basleigh Regular Member • Posts: 234
Re: for all FF BS, fuji told the real story, 1/3 market by value, by unit much lower

".....unnecessary weight and bulk". Refer to size of new big 24mm and 135mm from SONY out of proportion to my SONY A7 or any A series camera. Having sold my 90mm Macro SONY lens for that reason. On my X-T2 my 16mm f1,4 in proportion and easy to handle; even Fuji 90mm medium telephoto needs IBIS as mentioned in some reviews.

The case for MFT grows stronger to reduce bulk and backache.

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Messier Object
Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 8,406
Re: If ...

Jefftan wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

If the standard is overstating the effectiveness of the IBIS in your Sony, then it's doing the same thing for every other camera including those made by Olympus and Panasonic.

u own Olympus camera?

obviously not true. even my ancient E-PL1 ibis is better than a6500 ibis

what u said remind me of people who believe dxomark is the be all end all

by the way in my experience i doubt dxomark accuracy

now CIPA

As far as I know, CIPA does not test and report camera IBIS performance.

CIPA sets a standard procedure for the testing and measuring of IBIS performance.

So saying that you doubt CIPA makes no sense unless you are saying that you believe the standard to be flawed, and test results obtained by manufacturers are therefore to be doubted.

Peter

bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,178
Re: Bob my dear, I thought we had a gentlemen's agreement dear......

VideoPic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

Let me try to explain.

You said there is no standard.

Mark provided a link to a standard.

I think that means that you were wrong and he was right.

See our fundamental goals visiting this forum differ..... I am pro MFT and like to encourage MFT owners to enjoy, believe in, trust their equipment, hobby, share, plus plus..... You engage in endless tech bla bla to discredit the format and promote FF systems....

Yes I know you have a MFT camera parked somewhere in the garage.......

So the CIPA standard ensures Nikon IBIS or Sony IBIS equals that of the EM1 II or the EM1X........have not seen the tests, data, proof? Oh yes but when I see a IBIS logo I should assume its the same because Bob said so......

Huh.....????

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Ride easy, William.
Bob

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