Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

I bought it from Beach thru Amazon $898. I requested a return from Amazon and it was granted.

"We've accepted your return request. Once Beach Camera Same Day Shipping receives the item below, we'll issue a refund to your original payment method"

I ordered the 'accessory package kit' which included extra batteries, charger, mem card, mini tripod, etc.  I have all the accessories, but not necessarily all the plastic wrap they were in.

Does anyone know if Beach is picky about that?*

Then more importantly on to if I should return it...  I have an RX100m2 which has water spots on sensor from being submersed.  I chose Va as replacement as I wanted fast lens for night shots and indoor use, etc.

Then after a few hiking trips I realized that I missed the 70-100 range.  Plus the 100-200 range would be great for birds, snakes, bighorn sheep, etc.  I mostly take images of landscapes and tend to use wide lenses, not tele for that as it my style which I why I thought I'd be OK with 5a vs. 6.

Then it hit me, my old RX100m2 works fine except for the sensor water spots.  BUT these spots are only really an issue at f-stops over ~3.2.  So my water damaged m2 should still be fine for low light photography when shooting nearly wide open.  Is my thinking there sound?

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Bill Borne
Bill Borne Forum Pro • Posts: 39,450
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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

I purchased an RX100m6 with the exact same Accessory Kit from Beach thru Amazon.  It will arrive tomorrow.  What I plan to do is send back the new unopened Accessory Kit parts (after I ensure all parts are identical) with the m5a.

(When I called Beach they wanted RMA to look up my case, but when I told them it was thru Amazon they told me to talk to Amazon.)

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

I'm still a bit uneasy about 5a vs. 6.  I went thru my catalog of RX100m2 images and was surprised how many are at f1.8, f2.0 - not just from around home, but also taken around sundown at end of hikes.  Many of those however are at iso160 so there was room to bump it up without notable quality hit.  But there were also a good number at high iso 5-30sec exposures for evening and night shots.

I temper my unease my knowing I can still use my m2 for wide open aperture images as the water spots shouldn't show in darker wide open images.

At some point I may buy a Canon 80D or 6Dm2 which will provide an farbetter low light camera.  It will replace my 30D which I don't use anymore due to autofocus failure.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 42,777
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

noisebeam wrote:

I'm still a bit uneasy about 5a vs. 6. I went thru my catalog of RX100m2 images and was surprised how many are at f1.8, f2.0 - not just from around home, but also taken around sundown at end of hikes.

You are contradicting yourself. Originally you said you missed the 70-100mm range and now you say many are f1.8-f2. The 70-100 range is f4 and above max. It appears you should keep your RX100ii and add an RX100Va.

Many of those however are at iso160 so there was room to bump it up without notable quality hit. But there were also a good number at high iso 5-30sec exposures for evening and night shots.

I temper my unease my knowing I can still use my m2 for wide open aperture images as the water spots shouldn't show in darker wide open images.

At some point I may buy a Canon 80D or 6Dm2 which will provide an far better low light camera. It will replace my 30D which I don't use anymore due to autofocus failure.

Make sure you don't get a slow kit lens because it would negate much of your high ISO needs. Also I would expand your search beyond Canon because IMO Nikon and Sony make better APS-C and FF cameras. A Sony A7iii would work well with the RX cameras because of the similarity of the menus, better sensor, better video and better AF than the 80D and 6D M2. Even Canon users were disappointed with the 6D2.

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

tbcass wrote:

noisebeam wrote:

I'm still a bit uneasy about 5a vs. 6. I went thru my catalog of RX100m2 images and was surprised how many are at f1.8, f2.0 - not just from around home, but also taken around sundown at end of hikes.

You are contradicting yourself. Originally you said you missed the 70-100mm range and now you say many are f1.8-f2. The 70-100 range is f4 and above max. It appears you should keep your RX100ii and add an RX100Va.

Not really, both are true which is what makes this a bit hard. I do miss that 70-100 range and could find occasional use for 100-200. Many is relative out of thousand of images. Many are below f2.0, but most are f4-5.6. Some are 70-100, but most are 28mm. I plan to keep the m2 for use wide open, but adding a m6 makes sense as the m5a would just duplicate the wide open m2. The water spots on my m2 are noticeable in blue skies starting at f4.

But I sincerely appreciate my thoughts being challenged as it helps me think thru this.

Many of those however are at iso160 so there was room to bump it up without notable quality hit. But there were also a good number at high iso 5-30sec exposures for evening and night shots.

I temper my unease my knowing I can still use my m2 for wide open aperture images as the water spots shouldn't show in darker wide open images.

At some point I may buy a Canon 80D or 6Dm2 which will provide an far better low light camera. It will replace my 30D which I don't use anymore due to autofocus failure.

Make sure you don't get a slow kit lens because it would negate much of your high ISO needs. Also I would expand your search beyond Canon because IMO Nikon and Sony make better APS-C and FF cameras. A Sony A7iii would work well with the RX cameras because of the similarity of the menus, better sensor, better video and better AF than the 80D and 6D M2. Even Canon users were disappointed with the 6D2.

I have several 80D compatible lenses I like including Sigma 30/1.4 and 15/2.8 fisheye, Canon 100/2.8 macro and 50/1.8. Plus the Canon 18-55mm kit from the Rebel and the Canon intervalometer. An 80D would mean no need to sell/buy lenses and there would be a small learning curve with similar controls as 30D.

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SoCalWill
SoCalWill Senior Member • Posts: 6,299
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

You're being much too cavalier about this, you need to really think it through long and hard, put some time into it.

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera

SoCalWill wrote:

You're being much too cavalier about this, you need to really think it through long and hard, put some time into it.

Well it is not really a life impacting decision.  Either I am being cavalier or the pro/cons are so even that I can't really go wrong (or right).

But given more time, what hard thoughts should I consider?  Or further things to look into?

It also kinda depends when one pokes around this forum in DPR as to influencing me.  When m6 came out there was quite a backlash as to its slower lens.  But over time it seems people are learning that 1.3 stops is not as big a setback as it may seem on paper.

For me as I've noted previously the 'ah-ah' moment was when I realized I can still use my water damaged m2 for wide open shots.

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elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,686
Re: Return RX100Va to Beach Camera
1

rx100m2 water spots not a big problem until narrow apertures, so wide bright is still in your pocket.

return m5a, get m6, with m2 is a terrific pair, and, after you get the m6 set up you will be leaving your m2 home more often than not.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4371954

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Elliott

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

elliottnewcomb wrote:

rx100m2 water spots not a big problem until narrow apertures, so wide bright is still in your pocket.

return m5a, get m6, with m2 is a terrific pair, and, after you get the m6 set up you will be leaving your m2 home more often than not.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4371954

Thank you Elliott. They do make a perfect combo. The replacement M6 I ordered arrived Friday and I used it after work around the backyard and indoors. I really liked it and was content with the decision to send back the 5.

So I packed up the M5A exactly as it arrived and transferred all the unopened accessories that were a match and put it in the box ready to ship back.

This morning I headed out to the desert with the M6 for a hike after setting it up exactly how I like it. Turned it on for the first shot and the screen was black. Cycled power. Still black. I thought it was broken and then tilted it slightly and the screen came into view.

The screen does not work with polarized glasses! This makes it totally unusable for the majority of my use where I flip the screen up 90deg and look down on it holding at waist level or a bit above, or crouching to get a low angle view to include flowers, etc. I was and am heartbroken. This is so disappointing.

I can still use it at eye level by pushing glasses down on nose and looking over them, but if using at eye level I'd use the EVF anyway. It also works in portrait mode.

The M5A and M2 LCD are not affected by polarized glasses and can be used in landscape or portrait mode.

Since my glasses are progressive prescription I can't even take them off to use at waist level as I can't see the screen. Without glasses I need to be 4" from screen to see it.

I have no idea what to do now. I thought I was done.

I first need to find out if all M6's are like this. I am surprised this never came up in any of the reviews I read. Every other LCD device I own works with polarized glasses and most (like my phones and M2) equally well in both orientations. I need to write Sony too so see if this will be fixed - how could such a large company screw this design up so badly.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 32,246
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

noisebeam wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

rx100m2 water spots not a big problem until narrow apertures, so wide bright is still in your pocket.

return m5a, get m6, with m2 is a terrific pair, and, after you get the m6 set up you will be leaving your m2 home more often than not.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4371954

Thank you Elliott. They do make a perfect combo. The replacement M6 I ordered arrived Friday and I used it after work around the backyard and indoors. I really liked it and was content with the decision to send back the 5.

So I packed up the M5A exactly as it arrived and transferred all the unopened accessories that were a match and put it in the box ready to ship back.

This morning I headed out to the desert with the M6 for a hike after setting it up exactly how I like it. Turned it on for the first shot and the screen was black. Cycled power. Still black. I thought it was broken and then tilted it slightly and the screen came into view.

The screen does not work with polarized glasses! This makes it totally unusable for the majority of my use where I flip the screen up 90deg and look down on it holding at waist level or a bit above, or crouching to get a low angle view to include flowers, etc. I was and am heartbroken. This is so disappointing.

I can still use it at eye level by pushing glasses down on nose and looking over them, but if using at eye level I'd use the EVF anyway. It also works in portrait mode.

The M5A and M2 LCD are not affected by polarized glasses and can be used in landscape or portrait mode.

Since my glasses are progressive prescription I can't even take them off to use at waist level as I can't see the screen. Without glasses I need to be 4" from screen to see it.

I have no idea what to do now. I thought I was done.

I first need to find out if all M6's are like this. I am surprised this never came up in any of the reviews I read. Every other LCD device I own works with polarized glasses and most (like my phones and M2) equally well in both orientations. I need to write Sony too so see if this will be fixed - how could such a large company screw this design up so badly.

Yes, it's a bit weird and a bit nuts that Sony uses a screen that is black in landscape when wearing Polaroids.

From day one with digital I was meeting various crazy screens so abandoned Polarisation for everyday wear and made life easier. Some screens black in portrait, some black in landscape, one even blacks at 45 degrees tilt.

Occasionally I have been known to wander out of my car keeping my driving clip-on Polaroids in place (accidentally) and wonder why this darn M6 is not working.......

Regards........ Guy

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

Guy Parsons wrote:

Yes, it's a bit weird and a bit nuts that Sony uses a screen that is black in landscape when wearing Polaroids.

From day one with digital I was meeting various crazy screens so abandoned Polarisation for everyday wear and made life easier. Some screens black in portrait, some black in landscape, one even blacks at 45 degrees tilt.

Occasionally I have been known to wander out of my car keeping my driving clip-on Polaroids in place (accidentally) and wonder why this darn M6 is not working.......

Regards........ Guy

My outdoor glasses are prescription progressive polarized deep neutral grey tint, anti glare interior and high index so they are not 3/8" thick making them $900.  They are essential for all day hiking, cycling, driving and generally being out in Arizona sun.  I have an eye condition (Keratokonus) that results in my eyesight being poor and very sensitive to glare and brightness.  I also have photochromic indoor glasses and reading glasses and insurance only pays for one set every 2yr.  Adding a fourth pair of deep tinted progressives is just not workable at this point, nor do they work well for me in the sun.

As I noted I have no other devices, Canon, Sony, Apple and more that have LCD screens that are not compatible and have been using them for decades.  The Sony RX100 M2 and M5A and iPhone work in landscape and portrait equally well with polarization.

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elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,686
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

sadly back it must go, (with the m5 unwrapped accessories)! so frustrating.

Is the RX10m4 too big for you? Too big for me, if not I would definitely have one. It would pair well with your spotted rx100.

better check your glasses with it's LCD.

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Elliott

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

elliottnewcomb wrote:

sadly back it must go, (with the m5 unwrapped accessories)! so frustrating.

Is the RX10m4 too big for you? Too big for me, if not I would definitely have one. It would pair well with your spotted rx100.

better check your glasses with it's LCD.

The m6 does need to go back. I went for a 60mi bike ride this morning and it chewed thru my head at first as a distraction, but by the end I was relaxed and clear the m6 goes back and I'll keep the 5a.

Hopefully my old m2 will die soon and at that time Sony will have a m6a or m7 with a corrected LCD

My big camera is Canon 30D (soon to be 80D) and several lenses, so no RX10. I specifically want a compact camera to take on my weekly hikes or backpacking trips when I pack light and go far.

Still no matter how I cut it an m6 would compliment the old m2 and Canon 80D better than the m5a.

(Can you imagine if the m6 screen polarization is due to the screen protector film Sony puts on that can be removed with difficulty. But I doubt it. Who wants to try )

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SoCalWill
SoCalWill Senior Member • Posts: 6,299
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

noisebeam wrote:

(soon to be 80D)

If size is a concern, why not the smallest-DSLR SL2?

SL2 + 24mm pancake, photo Dustin Abbott

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elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,686
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

noisebeam wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

sadly back it must go, (with the m5 unwrapped accessories)! so frustrating.

Is the RX10m4 too big for you? Too big for me, if not I would definitely have one. It would pair well with your spotted rx100.

better check your glasses with it's LCD.

The m6 does need to go back. I went for a 60mi bike ride this morning and it chewed thru my head at first as a distraction, but by the end I was relaxed and clear the m6 goes back and I'll keep the 5a.

Hopefully my old m2 will die soon and at that time Sony will have a m6a or m7 with a corrected LCD

My big camera is Canon 30D (soon to be 80D) and several lenses, so no RX10. I specifically want a compact camera to take on my weekly hikes or backpacking trips when I pack light and go far.

Still no matter how I cut it an m6 would compliment the old m2 and Canon 80D better than the m5a.

(Can you imagine if the m6 screen polarization is due to the screen protector film Sony puts on that can be removed with difficulty. But I doubt it. Who wants to try )

I peeled the plastic from my rx100m1 and m3. It was thick, strong, not fully transparent, it can be seen curled up here. I don't think it would make a difference, but what do I know?

My progressives are self-darkening, activated by ultra-violet I think. I have no issues with any Sony LCD or EVF.

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Elliott

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 42,777
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

elliottnewcomb wrote:

My progressives are self-darkening, activated by ultra-violet I think. I have no issues with any Sony LCD or EVF.

Self darkening lenses are not polarized and will not have the problem. I will to the OP to use different non polarized sunglasses rather than ditch the camera.

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Tom

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SeeTheWorld
SeeTheWorld Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

noisebeam wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

sadly back it must go, (with the m5 unwrapped accessories)! so frustrating.

Is the RX10m4 too big for you? Too big for me, if not I would definitely have one. It would pair well with your spotted rx100.

better check your glasses with it's LCD.

The m6 does need to go back. I went for a 60mi bike ride this morning and it chewed thru my head at first as a distraction, but by the end I was relaxed and clear the m6 goes back and I'll keep the 5a.

Hopefully my old m2 will die soon and at that time Sony will have a m6a or m7 with a corrected LCD

My big camera is Canon 30D (soon to be 80D) and several lenses, so no RX10. I specifically want a compact camera to take on my weekly hikes or backpacking trips when I pack light and go far.

Still no matter how I cut it an m6 would compliment the old m2 and Canon 80D better than the m5a.

(Can you imagine if the m6 screen polarization is due to the screen protector film Sony puts on that can be removed with difficulty. But I doubt it. Who wants to try )

Hi Noisebeam,

I've read this discussion with interest.  I like the way you think, and was hoping to get a follow-up on your decisions.

I have an RX100M4 that I felt could be upgraded, and the RX10M3 that could be upgraded to a M4.  I read about the RX100M6 and RX10M4 and Sony's new AF technology.  I decided to give my RX100M4 to a nephew who is just getting to appreciate photography and has no funds, and sell my RX10M3 to B&H so I could order the RX10M4.

I ordered the RX100M6 (this week) and was getting ready to sell the RX10M3.  The idea is that the new RX10M4 and RX100M6 could complement each other on expeditions.  The older cameras worked just fine together.  I could use the 600mm reach when shooting BIF or capturing some distant architectural feature and stuff like that.  Then, on days when I just needed a quick pocket camera, I'd use the new RX100M6.  Also, I liked the quick glass on the RX100's for indoor and dusk shots.  My only real concern was that as soon as I used the RX10M4, Sony would bring out the RX10M5.  That's something to consider.

These are all huge decisions about which I worry through the night.  I save up for these cameras for a long time.  So, I started doing more reading on the RX100M6 and saw that it has slower glass!  Oh no!  How on earth did I miss that?  It hasn't even arrived and I'm probably sending it back.  Some people say the slower glass is not an issue, but I think that slower glass messes with dusk and indoor photos!  (I don't know how to "stop" up and down.  I just like taking photos with P or Scene.). But, others on DPReview suggested I try the RX100M6 before sending it back to see how it works in low light.

Then, I read about your polaroid glasses problem with the RX100M6.  I also wear prescription polaroid glasses.  Now I need a new RX100, but not the M6, apparently.

Conundrum.

What did you end up doing?  Have you been using the RX100Model5A?  Are you happy with the results?  Are you considering getting the RX10M4, or using your Canon with lenses for longer shots?  (Like you also own a Canon with a broad variety of lenses purchased over the years.  But, I don't like the weight.)

Thank you for reading this long message!

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 32,246
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

The "slower glass" of the M6 has proved to be no real problem. Last night shooting the Gardens by the Bay light show in Singapore I experimented with P mode then P with a lower limit set then the Auto mode of the dial which then does tricks to get a result.

P mode noisy at ISO 6400 and cleaner when set to 3200 limit.

Auto mode cleanest of all and it's ISO set itself at 8000, cleaner because the mode it automatically chose probably use stacked electronic shutter shots and the stacking greatly reduces the noise.

So far no complaints with the M6. Mine is carried in a small belt pouch and my wife carries hers in a sleeve we made to fit in her handbag. Only one day did need a battery swap, that needed something like 300 shots to get down to 1 bar on the battery indicator, we swap early so as not to get caught, plus it is better for the battery to have shallower charge-discharge cycles.

I really am surprised at how useful it is in all light conditions. But of course for future trips I will still take some of my M4/3 gear to get those silly wide shots like fisheye that is extremely useful in more situations than I expected.

The polarised glasses thing is a trap as the screen is black when held normally, but ok when in portrait orientation. Luckily I rarely use my polarised clipons and have to remember to unclip them if I do wander about with them plus the M6.

Regards..... Guy

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OP noisebeam Senior Member • Posts: 2,675
Re: Return RX100Va (M6 LCD polarization error)

SeeTheWorld wrote:

Then, I read about your polaroid glasses problem with the RX100M6. I also wear prescription polaroid glasses. Now I need a new RX100, but not the M6, apparently.

Conundrum.

What did you end up doing? Have you been using the RX100Model5A? Are you happy with the results? Are you considering getting the RX10M4, or using your Canon with lenses for longer shots? (Like you also own a Canon with a broad variety of lenses purchased over the years. But, I don't like the weight.)

Thank you for reading this long message!

I ended up returning the M6.  I really wanted to make it work for me, but in the end I could not.

I actually tried the M6 at home in the evening with my polarized sunglasses on to find if I could make it work by tipping head, screen to see it. It worked at home in the dim indoor light - not as hard as I recall to see screen.

Then I went on a day hike and for some reason when it is very bright out the screen is even darker and I could not see it at all when horizontal with polarized glasses and it was too dark when head was tipped relatively.  I also brought a set of dark tinted non polarized glasses and they too resulted in too dim an image to see on LCD.  It just made for a very frustrating shooting experience.

I also found that the M6 is horrible at stitching panoramas compared to M2.  All of them have zig zag stitching seams.

No way I could justify $1300 for these two issues.

Hopefully someday Sony will fix the polarization of the M6 LCD and I will run back to the RX100M7. ;(  or maybe get a M5a someday.

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