Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,850
You totally ...
3

RED i wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

RED i wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

That sucks life is not being fair to you, on the other hand I'm gonna enjoy it once I get it.

I hope you do. You're free to spend your money as you see fit. I hope it brings you lots of happiness. If it does then to you it is worth it to you. To me it is not.

Well then I'd better hop onto some exotic car forums and start complaining about the cars cause I don't want to pay that much money for them.

You totally are missing the point.  It isn't that I cannot afford this lens.  It is that this lens is not worth the price to me.  I could very easily afford the cost of one.  It is a Ford Focus at a Ferrari price, therefore it is of no interest to me.

-- hide signature --

Jonathan

Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 5,995
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
1

traveler_101 wrote:

"While the lens may not give you the typical Olympus razor sharp image output at the longer end, it performs very well in the 12-100mm zoom range." Doesn't appear to me that there is any question about it: neither the 75-300 or the new 12-200 are good at the long end.

I can understand why the 12-200 wouldn't be optimized for the long end, it's less likely to be used there. But there's no excuse for the 75-300, you buy a long zoom because you want the reach. You're more likely to be using at the max, wishing you had more.

 Mark Ransom's gear list:Mark Ransom's gear list
Pentax K-7 Pentax K-01 Olympus E-M5 II Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR Pentax smc D-FA 100mm F2.8 macro +6 more
Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,095
I would say the 12-100 Pro is pretty good though.

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

I agree I am not super thrilled by this zoom. It's good for the class it's in but still not that thrilled with the IQ in the end compared with the better lenses.

But the 12-100 Pro lens is pretty good, which is also very surprising.

-- hide signature --

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

String
String Senior Member • Posts: 2,126
Re: Curious...
1

Mark Ransom wrote:

String wrote:

Its a consumer grade lens at consumer grade price; As a consumer grade lens, coming out at $899 isn't bad at all.

The 12-100Pro is $1299, The 12-40Pro is $999 and the 40-150Pro is $1499; all substantially more expensive than the new superzoom. Granted, the Pro lenses are regularly on sale however the new superzoom will also be on sale for a cheaper price just like everything else.

Just curious, what's your definition of a consumer grade price? Almost $1000 doesn't really fit my definition.

For what this lens is, a retail price of $900 seems quite reasonable especially considering the next step up would only get you out to 100mm (with the 12-100Pro). It's 45% more expensive. If you don't think so, then there are cheaper options available that are almost always on sale... this one will be too eventually.

 String's gear list:String's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +4 more
String
String Senior Member • Posts: 2,126
Re: Curious...

traveler_101 wrote:

Its a consumer grade lens at consumer grade price; As a consumer grade lens, coming out at $899 isn't bad at all.

The 12-100Pro is $1299, The 12-40Pro is $999 and the 40-150Pro is $1499; all substantially more expensive than the new superzoom. Granted, the Pro lenses are regularly on sale however the new superzoom will also be on sale for a cheaper price just like everything else.

$400 more and you get the outstanding 12-100? Seems like an easy decision.

I would agree however there are those that think this one is too expensive 

 String's gear list:String's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +4 more
JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 3,721
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
1

inlawbiker wrote:

I will admit I have a weakness for superzooms. This one looks really good but I'm struggling a little bit with it. 12mm is nice yes and so is up to 200mm. My problem is the Panasonic 14-140 II is so good, I can't figure out why I'd spend this much to replace it. Maybe if they had pushed this thing out to 300mm like the RX10 Mark 3 (600 equiv)?

Yeah, 14-140 II is excellent for what it is. Maybe if it matches the IQ of the 14-140 II at those focal lengths then it'll be interesting. But one major advantage of the 14-140 II is how light and small it is (even with OIS built in). The 12-200mm is quite big.

As for pricing, I'm sure it'll drop later and be available used or refurb for much less. The 14-140 II wasn't a cheap lens either at launch ($700).

 JakeJY's gear list:JakeJY's gear list
Nikon Coolpix S9300 Nikon D5000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR +5 more
Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 5,995
Re: Curious...
2

String wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

Just curious, what's your definition of a consumer grade price? Almost $1000 doesn't really fit my definition.

For what this lens is, a retail price of $900 seems quite reasonable especially considering the next step up would only get you out to 100mm (with the 12-100Pro). It's 45% more expensive. If you don't think so, then there are cheaper options available that are almost always on sale... this one will be too eventually.

My question wasn't about value for money, it was about absolute prices. Again I think anything approaching $1000 puts it out of "consumer" territory.

For comparison, I have a Sigma 18-300 for my Pentax APS-C. It has the same 16.7x zoom range as the 12-200. List price is $579 and I picked it up for $400.

 Mark Ransom's gear list:Mark Ransom's gear list
Pentax K-7 Pentax K-01 Olympus E-M5 II Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR Pentax smc D-FA 100mm F2.8 macro +6 more
Skeeterbytes Forum Pro • Posts: 16,852
Re: Curious...

String wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

Just curious, what's your definition of a consumer grade price? Almost $1000 doesn't really fit my definition.

For what this lens is, a retail price of $900 seems quite reasonable especially considering the next step up would only get you out to 100mm (with the 12-100Pro). It's 45% more expensive. If you don't think so, then there are cheaper options available that are almost always on sale... this one will be too eventually.

"Back in the day" the four-thirds HG lenses were weatherproof and zooms were variable aperture, all were priced under US $1000. SHG lenses were all over $1000, many by a large amount, and zooms were constant aperture.

Guess what I'm saying is there is precedent.

Cheers,

Rick

-- hide signature --

Equivalence and diffraction-free since 2009.
You can be too; ask about our 12-step program.

JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 3,721
Re: Curious...
1

Mark Ransom wrote:

String wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

Just curious, what's your definition of a consumer grade price? Almost $1000 doesn't really fit my definition.

For what this lens is, a retail price of $900 seems quite reasonable especially considering the next step up would only get you out to 100mm (with the 12-100Pro). It's 45% more expensive. If you don't think so, then there are cheaper options available that are almost always on sale... this one will be too eventually.

My question wasn't about value for money, it was about absolute prices. Again I think anything approaching $1000 puts it out of "consumer" territory.

For comparison, I have a Sigma 18-300 for my Pentax APS-C. It has the same 16.7x zoom range as the 12-200. List price is $579 and I picked it up for $400.

This was discussed in a previous thread, but third party prices are not comparable to first party. It's true that the third party list prices of consumer lenses in this zoom range tend to be around $600-650, but that's third party.

You can see an example in MFT superzoom of the Tamron 14-150 at $400, while the Olympus is $600. First party being 1.5x the price.

Multiply the $600*1.5 = $900, exactly the same difference.

 JakeJY's gear list:JakeJY's gear list
Nikon Coolpix S9300 Nikon D5000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR +5 more
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
4

There's a lot of fixation around shallow DOF and big apertures but unless you have low light most people shoot f/5.6 to f/8 and if you have bright light, you sometimes have stop down more. A long FL lens like this is usually used outdoors where the light is good unless you are shooting in overcast skies or rain, or before of after sunrise or sundown.

For BIF and tiny birds, all bets are off because you might shoot fast shutter speeds causing the ISO to shoot up if you don't have bright light, but I shoot a lot of motorsports where I need 1/500 sometimes, and the 75-300 works for that even in rain and gloom. There are times when f/6.7 is marginal, but I can still make it work. most of the time, in bright sun I'm worried about the lens stopping down too much.

People are too fixated on specifications and not thinking about application - think about how you would use it. Will it work for that?

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Curious...

The MSRP on the 14-150 was $600. Don't think many people paid that much for it. I paid $400 new. The 12-200 will find its price in the market place.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Curious...

Quality IQ vs. FL. 12-200 is double the zoom of the 12-100. Different purpose.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Typical ...
1

People pay more than $1000 for a super zoom camera with 400mm on the long end and a smaller sensor. You can mount this on an EM-10 and have a body with a bigger sensor and you can change lenses. If you have an M43 kit, you need it not.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

When I travel I want to go light. I take photos to show where I went and what I did. I'm usually not looking for museum quality prints. If I am, I take the PRO lenses. If not 150 is long enough and bright enough. I can crop to post on the internet, to DPR, for email and the image quality is good enough even if I have low light and I have to shoot RW and push the files. I like the size of the 14-150. I'd like a 12-100 f/4-5.6 instead of the 12-100PRO to save the weight. Even 100mm on the long end is usually long enough for the way I use the 14-150. I can crop a little more for the purpose if I have to. I'd trade 150 on the long end for 12 on the wide end so I don't have to carry a second lens to get to 12mm. That's a one lens travel lens for me.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
1

Wong is an expert who's been doing this for years full time. And he has his older photos to compare. I've never know him to be off on much of anything. I would trust his judgment on this unless he's proven to be wrong.

User1303423862 Contributing Member • Posts: 602
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Simon97 wrote:

I use the 12-32 kit lens and the 40-150R PF (plastic fantastic) which are cheap. Apertures slow down quick on superzooms and it is already f/6.2 at 100mm where it is f/5 on the PF. The PF retains decent IQ so is perhaps comparable the the 12-200 at similar FL. OTOH, the 12-200 appears to be mechanically a better made lens with a bit more reach. I'd have to weigh the convenience, cost and a few other factors before deciding.

I've gone the same route with the 12-32 and 40-150. It keeps the weight down. I've added an Oly 45 F/1.8 to complete the three lens kit.

If I need 400mm, I'll borrow the wife's Canon G3X.

-- hide signature --

How the heck did I end up with this username?

 User1303423862's gear list:User1303423862's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P340 Nikon 1 V1 Pentax K-r Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +1 more
Jmdamp New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
9

I live on a farm in rural NSW Au and it is very often just not possible or safe to zoom with ones feet. We have huge distances compared to many other countries. We can see storms coming in a couple hundred Ks away from the plains out to the west. Often I have to go in ute with men to help and no room to take masses of lens. Barely room to take one often.  I take the 14-150 but often not quite wide enough or long enough. So I have preordered the 12-200 and as in one lens I have more flexible options, plus weather resistant. I have the 40-150 pro and I love it but a bit large to be compact. As many say it is a case of what suits your situation.

HHlim18 New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

MShot wrote:

I like a consumer 12-100, weather sealed, $600 for travel. A little bigger than the 14-150 but f/2.8 - 4. Don't often go past 100mm when I travel but use 12mm. 12-100 is too big/heavy for me to carry for a long time.

You're looking for a small light weight 12-100mm f2.8-4 consumer lens that cost $600? Olympus will never release one because it kill sales of their Pro 12-100mm f4. Panasonic too because leica 12-60mm f2.8-4. In your perfect world we can have best of all worlds but cons of none, however we aren't in it. Have a more realistic expectation or disappointment will be your BFF.

Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 662
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Jmdamp wrote:

I live on a farm in rural NSW Au and it is very often just not possible or safe to zoom with ones feet. We have huge distances compared to many other countries. We can see storms coming in a couple hundred Ks away from the plains out to the west. Often I have to go in ute with men to help and no room to take masses of lens. Barely room to take one often. I take the 14-150 but often not quite wide enough or long enough. So I have preordered the 12-200 and as in one lens I have more flexible options, plus weather resistant. I have the 40-150 pro and I love it but a bit large to be compact. As many say it is a case of what suits your situation.

Do you think you could give us a comparison of the two once you get it? And treat us to some pictures from rural Au!

 Auf Reisen's gear list:Auf Reisen's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Tamron 14-150mm F/3.5-5.8 Di III Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +2 more
Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 662
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

HHlim18 wrote:

MShot wrote:

I like a consumer 12-100, weather sealed, $600 for travel. A little bigger than the 14-150 but f/2.8 - 4. Don't often go past 100mm when I travel but use 12mm. 12-100 is too big/heavy for me to carry for a long time.

You're looking for a small light weight 12-100mm f2.8-4 consumer lens that cost $600? Olympus will never release one because it kill sales of their Pro 12-100mm f4. Panasonic too because leica 12-60mm f2.8-4. In your perfect world we can have best of all worlds but cons of none, however we aren't in it. Have a more realistic expectation or disappointment will be your BFF.

The two Panasonic 12-60s co-exist side by side, so I don't really see a problem with it. It doesn't have to match the IQ, build quality, or close focusing abilities of the 12-100 pro. Just be slightly better than the 14-150 and weather-sealed.

Probably not for 600, though.

 Auf Reisen's gear list:Auf Reisen's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Tamron 14-150mm F/3.5-5.8 Di III Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +2 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads