Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,763
I hope ...
2

RED i wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

That sucks life is not being fair to you, on the other hand I'm gonna enjoy it once I get it.

I hope you do. You're free to spend your money as you see fit. I hope it brings you lots of happiness.  If it does then to you it is worth it to you.  To me it is not.

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Jonathan

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 4,763
Re: Curious...
3

String wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

Seeing as m43 has arguably the most complete lens lineup of any mirrorless system, what are you actually looking for?

I'd love to have a superzoom that is noticeably better than my 14-150 II and doesn't both weigh and cost a huge amount. I see this as just slightly improved 14-150, which quite frankly I'm not that impressed with. Anyone who wants to give me a fair market price for mine can have it.

This lens is consumer grade gear at pro prices.

Heck this thing is as much or more than a 12-40 Pro and not much less than a 40-150 Pro. I happen to own both of those and their performance is much more in line with their price than the 12-200.

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Jonathan

String
String Senior Member • Posts: 2,120
Re: Curious...
10

jwilliams wrote:

I'd love to have a superzoom that is noticeably better than my 14-150 II and doesn't both weigh and cost a huge amount. I see this as just slightly improved 14-150, which quite frankly I'm not that impressed with. Anyone who wants to give me a fair market price for mine can have it.

This lens is consumer grade gear at pro prices.

Heck this thing is as much or more than a 12-40 Pro and not much less than a 40-150 Pro. I happen to own both of those and they are worth their cost because they perform in-line with their price.

Its a consumer grade lens at consumer grade price; As a consumer grade lens, coming out at $899 isn't bad at all.

The 12-100Pro is $1299, The 12-40Pro is $999 and the 40-150Pro is $1499; all substantially more expensive than the new superzoom. Granted, the Pro lenses are regularly on sale however the new superzoom will also be on sale for a cheaper price just like everything else.

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Typical ...
12

A persistent M43 basher if he owns it or not. Consistently negative guy. Ignore. Lens is general purpose superzoom. As they go it seems to perform reasonably well. No point in complaining that it isn't something it isn't claimed to be, or that lenses with smaller zooms are better. Those things are given.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Problem is longer is slower if not bigger and also extends longer. Front filter is already 72mm. Could be better shorter + cropping a little.

14-150 is f/5.6 on the long end. Same image cropped a little, lower ISO when you need it faster. Similar result, smaller lens. I like the 12mm wide though. Comes in handy sometimes. Better for a one lens solution. I think I'd like a 12-150 better, a little bigger to maintain f/5.6 on the long end. I'll take f/4 on the wide end to get it.

I like a consumer 12-100, weather sealed, $600 for travel. A little bigger than the 14-150 but f/2.8 - 4. Don't often go past 100mm when I travel but use 12mm. 12-100 is too big/heavy for me to carry for a long time.

Okapi001 Senior Member • Posts: 4,945
Re: Curious...
4

String wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

Seeing as m43 has arguably the most complete lens lineup of any mirrorless system, what are you actually looking for?

Well, that's simple - a lens of a superzoom range, pro zoom quality, pancake zoom size and body cap price.

 Okapi001's gear list:Okapi001's gear list
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Henry Stamm Veteran Member • Posts: 3,072
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
1

bofo777 wrote:

epozar wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

Shooting in great light with this lens does make a difference but the bokeh and isolation of close ups is not the greatest....

yes it is.. at 200mm..

Look again at 6.3 they are not very good Nothing wrong with the lens just not wide enough aperture.....

This is your opinion.  I took your advice and looked at the 6.3 images again.  I like them.  But what pleases my eye is the context in the kinds of images Wong provides with his user review.  And that includes more DOF, not less.  So my opinion is that the IQ and the bokeh are quite nice throughout the range.  I shoot a heck of a lot at f8, so Wong's images seem quite nice.

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Henry Stamm Veteran Member • Posts: 3,072
Re: Typical ...
3

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

So-so to you might be quite reasonable to others.  I find his sample images at 200mm quite nice and perfectly acceptable.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Your statement, as are any regarding price to capability or value, reflects your opinion only.  I'm sure many others will find that this lens is quite capable for providing a one lens travel solution.  And well worth the money.

Again, this reflects only what you desire or expect  from the m4/3 world.

 Henry Stamm's gear list:Henry Stamm's gear list
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RED i Senior Member • Posts: 1,623
Re: I hope ...
3

jwilliams wrote:

RED i wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Adrian Tung wrote:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/02/27/review-the-2019-olympus-zd-12-200-f3-5-6-3/

Looks like a decent super-zoom for its price, but not my cup of tea.

Typical superzoom. Aperture closes down real fast. IQ at long end is just so so.

At $899 they'd have to have a 50% off sale to even get me to think about it. Waay overpriced for its capabilities.

Oly continues to create new cameras and lenses I have absolutely no interest in. Batting 100% there.

That sucks life is not being fair to you, on the other hand I'm gonna enjoy it once I get it.

I hope you do. You're free to spend your money as you see fit. I hope it brings you lots of happiness. If it does then to you it is worth it to you. To me it is not.

Well then I'd better hop onto some exotic car forums and start complaining about the cars cause I don't want to pay that much money for them.

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(Yes I do take and have photos and they're grainy) http://bluei.ca

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daleeight Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
4

Well, a good review of the lens, which is either a good option, or not, depending on if you want or need it.

It is certainly a one-lens travel zoom option, or can be paired with a nice prime. Wider and longer than the lower cost end 14-150 or others. A nice longggg range on this thing. Very good lens for people who want to grab wide and tight, and everything in between, in great light. Good images for a lot of people. Pixel peepers, or techno nerds, not so much. But in reality, it should work for a lot of people on here. Including me.

But I have the 12-100 f/4 already, and don't need to travel around with 200mm...

But, thanks to Robin for the review, even if he kind of has to do it.

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Dale

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Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 635
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

MShot wrote:

Problem is longer is slower if not bigger and also extends longer. Front filter is already 72mm. Could be better shorter + cropping a little.

14-150 is f/5.6 on the long end. Same image cropped a little, lower ISO when you need it faster. Similar result, smaller lens. I like the 12mm wide though. Comes in handy sometimes. Better for a one lens solution. I think I'd like a 12-150 better, a little bigger to maintain f/5.6 on the long end. I'll take f/4 on the wide end to get it.

I like a consumer 12-100, weather sealed, $600 for travel. A little bigger than the 14-150 but f/2.8 - 4. Don't often go past 100mm when I travel but use 12mm. 12-100 is too big/heavy for me to carry for a long time.

I'm in the same camp. I'd really like to know how the 12-200 compares to the 14-150, especially in the corners at 12/14mm.

I'd love to have a slightly lighter 12-100 consumer zoom, but I am seriously considering this lens as the next best choice. If it's slightly better than the 14-150 in the 12-100 range, I'll probably get it.

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Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 635
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
6

The problem with Robin is that he's a bloody magician that makes even the 75-300 sing. And that is a lens that I find rather so-so. So of course the pictures he provides look great, I'm not sure how much that tells me about the lenses' capabilities in lesser hands.

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Okapi001 Senior Member • Posts: 4,945
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
1

Auf Reisen wrote:

The problem with Robin is that he's a bloody magician that makes even the 75-300 sing. And that is a lens that I find rather so-so. So of course the pictures he provides look great, I'm not sure how much that tells me about the lenses' capabilities in lesser hands.

Do you really think optical characteristics of a lens depend on the user?

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SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,334
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
2

Auf Reisen wrote:

The problem with Robin is that he's a bloody magician that makes even the 75-300 sing. And that is a lens that I find rather so-so. So of course the pictures he provides look great, I'm not sure how much that tells me about the lenses' capabilities in lesser hands.

Well, he did provide some comments on how it compares with other consumer lenses.

"The sharpness is similar to what I remember seeing from the 75-300mm and 40-150mm R lenses, with the 12-200mm having a slight advantage in terms of overall detail retention and having better contrast."

"For anyone looking for a comparison against the 14-150mm lens, the extra 50mm at the telephoto end won’t mean much, but the 12mm wider angle can make a difference in fitting more into the frame in tight spaces. Also, based on my personal shooting experience, the 12-200mm is noticeably sharper (though by small margin) at the wider end. If you want to compare against the 12-100mm F4 PRO lens, the 12-100mm lens is superior in every aspect."

"What I was surprised with was the flare resistance, the nano coating on the lens is, I’m happy to report, not just a marketing trick and is effective. This is probably an area where the 12-200mm outperforms many of the higher grade Olympus lenses. I can get flare with less effort with 12-40mm and 12-100mm PRO lenses. I had the hood attached at all times during my shooting with the 12-200mm lens so I did remove it just to see if the lens gets more susceptible to flare and ghosting, but the results remain unchanged."

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Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 5,875
Re: Curious...
6

String wrote:

Its a consumer grade lens at consumer grade price; As a consumer grade lens, coming out at $899 isn't bad at all.

The 12-100Pro is $1299, The 12-40Pro is $999 and the 40-150Pro is $1499; all substantially more expensive than the new superzoom. Granted, the Pro lenses are regularly on sale however the new superzoom will also be on sale for a cheaper price just like everything else.

Just curious, what's your definition of a consumer grade price? Almost $1000 doesn't really fit my definition.

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Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 635
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out
9

Okapi001 wrote:

Auf Reisen wrote:

The problem with Robin is that he's a bloody magician that makes even the 75-300 sing. And that is a lens that I find rather so-so. So of course the pictures he provides look great, I'm not sure how much that tells me about the lenses' capabilities in lesser hands.

Do you really think optical characteristics of a lens depend on the user?

The final product depends on the interaction between user and tool.

I am sure Sebastian Vessel could complete a lap on the Nürburgring faster in an old Honda than I could in a modern Audi. Does that mean the Honda is a faster and more nimble car than the Audi? Probably not. But I would probably be quicker in the Audi than in the Honda, even if I can't actualise the full potential of either.

Robin's pictures show the full potential of any lens he's getting his hands on. Where the pictures fall short, they probably do so because of the limitations of the tool. What Robin's pictures don't show is the set of limitations produced by the interaction between user shortcomings and tool shortcomings.

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Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 635
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

SHood wrote:

Auf Reisen wrote:

The problem with Robin is that he's a bloody magician that makes even the 75-300 sing. And that is a lens that I find rather so-so. So of course the pictures he provides look great, I'm not sure how much that tells me about the lenses' capabilities in lesser hands.

Well, he did provide some comments on how it compares with other consumer lenses.

"The sharpness is similar to what I remember seeing from the 75-300mm and 40-150mm R lenses, with the 12-200mm having a slight advantage in terms of overall detail retention and having better contrast."

"For anyone looking for a comparison against the 14-150mm lens, the extra 50mm at the telephoto end won’t mean much, but the 12mm wider angle can make a difference in fitting more into the frame in tight spaces. Also, based on my personal shooting experience, the 12-200mm is noticeably sharper (though by small margin) at the wider end. If you want to compare against the 12-100mm F4 PRO lens, the 12-100mm lens is superior in every aspect."

"What I was surprised with was the flare resistance, the nano coating on the lens is, I’m happy to report, not just a marketing trick and is effective. This is probably an area where the 12-200mm outperforms many of the higher grade Olympus lenses. I can get flare with less effort with 12-40mm and 12-100mm PRO lenses. I had the hood attached at all times during my shooting with the 12-200mm lens so I did remove it just to see if the lens gets more susceptible to flare and ghosting, but the results remain unchanged."

Yes, I read that segment. That is more or less the comparison I am looking for. But I am just not sure how much stock I should put in his memories from several months (or years) back. I was also not sure if he meant "the 12-200's long end is as sharp as the 75-300/40-150 at the long end" or if he meant the 12-200's entire range is like that. I am also not sure why he thinks the 75-300 and the 40-150 are equally sharp. In my experience, the latter is much sharper, throughout the range.
I wish someone would do a side-by-side comparison.

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traveler_101 Senior Member • Posts: 2,142
Re: Curious...
1

String wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

I'd love to have a superzoom that is noticeably better than my 14-150 II and doesn't both weigh and cost a huge amount. I see this as just slightly improved 14-150, which quite frankly I'm not that impressed with. Anyone who wants to give me a fair market price for mine can have it.

This lens is consumer grade gear at pro prices.

Heck this thing is as much or more than a 12-40 Pro and not much less than a 40-150 Pro. I happen to own both of those and they are worth their cost because they perform in-line with their price.

Its a consumer grade lens at consumer grade price; As a consumer grade lens, coming out at $899 isn't bad at all.

The 12-100Pro is $1299, The 12-40Pro is $999 and the 40-150Pro is $1499; all substantially more expensive than the new superzoom. Granted, the Pro lenses are regularly on sale however the new superzoom will also be on sale for a cheaper price just like everything else.

$400 more and you get the outstanding 12-100? Seems like an easy decision.

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traveler_101 Senior Member • Posts: 2,142
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

Auf Reisen wrote:

Yes, I read that segment. That is more or less the comparison I am looking for. But I am just not sure how much stock I should put in his memories from several months (or years) back. I **was also not sure if he meant "the 12-200's long end is as sharp as the 75-300/40-150 at the long end" or if he meant the 12-200's entire range is like that.>>

"While the lens may not give you the typical Olympus razor sharp image output at the longer end, it performs very well in the 12-100mm zoom range." Doesn't appear to me that there is any question about it: neither the 75-300 or the new 12-200 are good at the long end.

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Auf Reisen Contributing Member • Posts: 635
Re: Robin Wong's 12-200 review is out

traveler_101 wrote:

Auf Reisen wrote:

Yes, I read that segment. That is more or less the comparison I am looking for. But I am just not sure how much stock I should put in his memories from several months (or years) back. I **was also not sure if he meant "the 12-200's long end is as sharp as the 75-300/40-150 at the long end" or if he meant the 12-200's entire range is like that.>>

"While the lens may not give you the typical Olympus razor sharp image output at the longer end, it performs very well in the 12-100mm zoom range." Doesn't appear to me that there is any question about it: neither the 75-300 or the new 12-200 are good at the long end.

That's fine for me personally. With a travel lens, I only use the long end above 100mm for the occasional opportunistic wildlife shot. The 12-200 at 200 is probably still better than the 14-150 or 40-150R cropped. I just wish they had foregone the 100-200 range alltogether and made the lens lighter in return.

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