Fuji S5 Pro post-processing comparisons (love Cameras, hate Computers (software))

Regular Nikon user here, recently been "invited" on board the Fuji Film Color "love-in". Was advised to step back in time and see what was that I may have missed along the way. #history-is-making-a-comeback it would seem. I was blessed to find a new (old) secondhand Fuji S5 Pro with a measly 700 Shutter Count. Since then (a few weeks ago) I have been looking for another, you know, while I still can. Or can't, rather... They're now nowhere to be found!

Anyways, enough of my "posh speak" and more to the point... It may well be preferable to shoot jpeg with this vintage beauty - I have (re)searched high and low for a new workflow to accompany and cater for this left behind device in a world or modern tech. What I mean is, the RAW processing options are limited. Even DXO's recent new fancy PhotoLab has done away with the wondrous Super CCD handling *see here: https://support.dxo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013374528-What-is-DxO-PhotoLab-Will-there-be-a-DxO-OpticsPro-12- [Quote]:

What are the main differences between DxO OpticsPro and DxO PhotoLab except for local adjustments?

Deletions :

• The support of RAW file for Fuji S3, S5, and S100FS (Super CCD) is no longer ensured in DxO PhotoLab (Super CCD RAW is no longer supported, to avoid the maintenance of 2 different RAW engines, so that we can be more flexible and faster for our future development.); however JPEG is still supported

Well good riddance, 2 can play that game. Up first is darktable, previous wasn't my application of choice, yet looking in to it, the mere fact it carries a Module called Velvia let alone even opens up a RAF file is a promising start. Next up on the test is the trusty RawTherapee... yup, this works too! But while reading up on available function RAW File processors that are able to cater to the decade old Fuji S5 Pro all roads seem to point to Hyper Utility? My goodness, the only way to install the application, let alone use it, is to run it in XP/Vista Compatibility Mode. I would rather just find one program that gets the job done and, well, follow through and really get down to enjoying this Camera.

This is why I hate computers! The follow images, 2 from each, darktable, RawTherapee and Hyper Utility...

Darktable, in-camera White Balance (software rendered)

DarkTable (same as above, White Balance manually set)

RawTherapee, in-camera White Balance (software rendered)

RawTherapee (same as above, White Balance manually set)

Hyper Utility (as all of the above, post-processed, mainly Curve (Tone))

Hyper Utility... mainly "as-is" (didn't shoot RAW+jpeg as I was limited on Memory Card). I say mainly "as-is" as it is not exactly SOOC

So... I would say Hyper Utility really does have "that certain look" to it. And whereas all the other renderings have been, well, post-processed, I ask... for what? To bring out highlights? To sharpen and emphasize detail? OK. But when this camera was in its hey day (hay day?) it was never about 24MP Mirrorless Computational Artificial Unintelligence. It was all about the look. And here I can see why.

What an amazing Camera, Super CCD, Film-like rendition. No need for extra "bells and whistles". While the rest of the world fast forwards at blind speed into the unknown chasing the next latest and greatest I for one am staying put and seeing what the good old days were all about. And in that respect, those good days are not old days, they're now days.

Interesting! Thanks.

The free Fuji version of Capture One still supports the S5 Pro so you might want to try that too. Or if you are happy to make the RAF file available, via Dropbox or something similar, others could have a little play with their favorite compatible converter. It would be interesting to see an even larger set of comparison pictures even if it’s somewhat academic for many users here.

Silkypix, also supports the S5 Pro and should do a good job considering their tie in with Fuji for many years.

JdKen wrote:

Interesting! Thanks.

The free Fuji version of Capture One still supports the S5 Pro so you might want to try that too. Or if you are happy to make the RAF file available, via Dropbox or something similar, others could have a little play with their favorite compatible converter. It would be interesting to see an even larger set of comparison pictures even if it’s somewhat academic for many users here.

Silkypix, also supports the S5 Pro and should do a good job considering their tie in with Fuji for many years.

Wow, really? Do you have a link for the free Fuji version of Capture One please!? Also I will look in to SilkyPix... (Edit, OK I found the link, it is for Fuji Express which is the free version, thanks for that, will check it out)

The RAF file is in Dropbox, as suggested... https://www.dropbox.com/s/4auyjclxcz2mn1g/_DSF0650.RAF

I must say, the image is out of focus, just chose it for its color in deciding between various applications. And yes, looking back now I do wish it was better quality. This was my first time out using the camera. Having said that, have at it!

Thanks

JdKen wrote:

Silkypix, also supports the S5 Pro and should do a good job considering their tie in with Fuji for many years.

What a great camera is the S5Pro, amazing dynamic range and the most pleasant colors ever, I (wrongly) thought the x-trans sensor could revive the glorious s-ccd times but wasn't like that.

To develop RAWs I think the most secure path was to use Hyper Utility but that software was slower than the camera itself (and those who use/used it know what I am talking about), back in time I used to shoot jpg, the colors were just amazing and never felt the need to work on a raw also because it was pretty impossible to burn highlights even for a hobbyist like me.

I also bought a second one when my first one had to go to repair to change the top multi selector, found another used one in the UK and got it then sold it and kept my first one which is sitting in the dust since long time

Enjoy your new toy and let us know your findings about your favorite raw converter.

Fuji S5Pro - Nikon 300mm f4 ED - ISO320 - f5.6 - 1/250"

Well well well... I began a 30 day trial of Silky Pix Developer 9 and am blown away by the FREE Capture One for Fuji (albeit the 'Express' version. (I wonder what the full version entails?). I really wanted to like Silky Pix and although according to some reviews it is stated as somewhat unintuitive, I found it quite the opposite, kinda reminiscentof Nikon's Capture NX (Nikon's version of supplied standard of Fuji's Hyper Utility). However, Silky Pix was extremely laggy, even ended up crashing and automatically applying "compatibility settings" *see attached - will see if this helps in any way, as once I have found the perfect match I would consider buying the full Silky Pix.

Here are the renditions using the 2 suggested above additional RAW Developer Programs as follows...

Silky Pix

Silky Pix - if I recall correctly Silky Pix automatically applied the above White Balance, but here is the image with WB set to 'Camera'

Capture One Express Fuji - Auto WB applied

Capture One Express Fuji - in camera WB

Upon further researching I just viewed the comments of a YouTube tutorial on (gotta love it haha) 'Fujifilm Raw files - *Don't use lightroom* - Use SilkyPix !' [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lXkuX1xLnQ ] it read (quote), "Corel After Shot Pro does an awesome job on Fuji Raw files.." so maybe I will continue this episode as I have a copy of that which came free with my Wacom Pen Tablet. Anymore suggestions? I keep hearing about ON1. ACDSee? For what it's worth, although a career-long Photoshop User, I have never used, or even have been interested in Lightroom. Just never appealed to me for some reason.

*As mentioned above, when Silky Pix crashed on me I got this screenshot:

Thanks again, makes a refreshing change meeting new Fuji Friends. As I pointed out from the start, have been a Nikon Shooter. Having said that, the Fuji S5 Pro was of course, a Nikon D200 Body with Fuji's Super CCD Sensor inside. Meaning, to me at least, they are (in this instance) one of the same: Lens Compatibility AOK!

Glad you got the two working, even if Silkypix crashed. I'm on a Mac and it's generally stable but SO slow compared with EVERY other piece of photo software I have. I read somewhere that it doesn't use graphics card acceleration and also redraws the image from scratch, applying every change previously made. Or something like that. Could have been internet nonsense though!

FWIW on my screen the in camera white balance looks a little off - too purple.

With regards to the information you found about the other image editors, they may be referring to dealing with X-Trans - the newer Fuji sensor which is completely different. Therefore those comments may not apply.

There is another option I remember reading about, and it's Windows based. It's called S7Raw. That's about all I remember.

And thank you for making the RAF available, I'll take a look tomorrow (I'm in Bangkok and it's getting late).

For me personally no conversion gives me true Fuji S5 Pro colors other than Hyper Utility and the camera's SOOC JPEG. You'll see plausible color interpretations of a forest scene from Darktable, Silkypix, Lightroom, C1 Pro, and others... but these all break down when it comes to rendering skin tones with the S5.

I'd caution users against buying SilkyPix as I recall from seeing the conversions here that it leaves rather terrible fringing artifacts with SuperCCD sensors. To see this compare the upper right corner between HU and Silkypix and note the massive purple fringing in the latter. I think the YouTube video posted extolling Silkypix's color advantages refers solely to their Fuji X-Trans demosaicing versus Lightroom... a completely different sensor tech compared to Fuji SuperCCD.

Beyond color fidelity, when considering any RAW processor for the S5 Pro the first question is does the converter know how to interpret and manage both the S and R pixels from the SuperCCD? Many don't. Secondly, does the RAW converter support Fuji's interpolation to 12MP in combination with balanced sharpening? Many only yield 6MP.

Most long time users of the S5 Pro have settled on either a Lightroom or Hyper Utility workflow for good reason... both converters tap the S and R pixels and interpolate a smooth 12MP. Hyper Utility is a bit slower but produces better image quality. Here's my own Hyper Utility conversion for comparison purposes:

HU-VS3

fPrime

fPrime wrote:

For me personally no conversion gives me true Fuji S5 Pro colors other than Hyper Utility and the camera's SOOC JPEG. You'll see plausible color interpretations of a forest scene from Darktable, Silkypix, Lightroom, C1 Pro, and others... but these all break down when it comes to rendering skin tones with the S5.

I'd caution users against buying SilkyPix as I recall from seeing the conversions here that it leaves rather terrible fringing artifacts with SuperCCD sensors. To see this compare the upper right corner between HU and Silkypix and note the massive purple fringing in the latter. I think the YouTube video posted extolling Silkypix's color advantages refers solely to their Fuji X-Trans demosaicing versus Lightroom... a completely different sensor tech compared to Fuji SuperCCD.

Beyond color fidelity, when considering any RAW processor for the S5 Pro the first question is does the converter know how to interpret and manage both the S and R pixels from the SuperCCD? Many don't. Secondly, does the RAW converter support Fuji's interpolation to 12MP in combination with balanced sharpening? Many only yield 6MP.

Most long time users of the S5 Pro have settled on either a Lightroom or Hyper Utility workflow for good reason... both converters tap the S and R pixels and interpolate a smooth 12MP. Hyper Utility is a bit slower but produces better image quality. Here's my own Hyper Utility conversion for comparison purposes:

HU-VS3

fPrime

Yes I actually DO prefer Hyper Utility for Color Rendition, even Forest Greenery. My preference was stated in my opening presentation. However, there are still general necessities required in post-processing whatever they may be, excuse the pun, but using Silky Pix's favorite term for Preset/Style, accoring to Taste

I must say Silky Pix does a pretty good job on CA/Purple Fringing compared to others I have tried.

And regarding Silky's handling of the Fuji S5 Pro's Super Dooper CCD sensor, well...

https://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/products/ds3/manual/man0006.html#105

After all, Silky Pix do "head-up" RAW FILE CONVERTER EX 3.0 powered by SILKYPIX (just not applicable for the S5 Pro) http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/rfc/

EE-TV wrote:

fPrime wrote:

For me personally no conversion gives me true Fuji S5 Pro colors other than Hyper Utility and the camera's SOOC JPEG. You'll see plausible color interpretations of a forest scene from Darktable, Silkypix, Lightroom, C1 Pro, and others... but these all break down when it comes to rendering skin tones with the S5.

I'd caution users against buying SilkyPix as I recall from seeing the conversions here that it leaves rather terrible fringing artifacts with SuperCCD sensors. To see this compare the upper right corner between HU and Silkypix and note the massive purple fringing in the latter. I think the YouTube video posted extolling Silkypix's color advantages refers solely to their Fuji X-Trans demosaicing versus Lightroom... a completely different sensor tech compared to Fuji SuperCCD.

Beyond color fidelity, when considering any RAW processor for the S5 Pro the first question is does the converter know how to interpret and manage both the S and R pixels from the SuperCCD? Many don't. Secondly, does the RAW converter support Fuji's interpolation to 12MP in combination with balanced sharpening? Many only yield 6MP.

Most long time users of the S5 Pro have settled on either a Lightroom or Hyper Utility workflow for good reason... both converters tap the S and R pixels and interpolate a smooth 12MP. Hyper Utility is a bit slower but produces better image quality. Here's my own Hyper Utility conversion for comparison purposes:

HU-VS3

fPrime

Yes I actually DO prefer Hyper Utility for Color Rendition, even Forest Greenery. My preference was stated in my opening presentation. However, there are still general necessities required in post-processing whatever they may be, excuse the pun, but using Silky Pix's favorite term for Preset/Style, accoring to Taste

I must say Silky Pix does a pretty good job on CA/Purple Fringing compared to others I have tried.

How do we explain the purple fringing it left in the Silkypix corners here, though?

And regarding Silky's handling of the Fuji S5 Pro's Super Dooper CCD sensor, well...

https://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/products/ds3/manual/man0006.html#105

After all, Silky Pix do "head-up" RAW FILE CONVERTER EX 3.0 powered by SILKYPIX (just not applicable for the S5 Pro) http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/

Thanks, reading that it seems Silkypix reads both the S and R pixels at least. My comment about the video comparison still apply in the sense that it was obviously showing a more modern X-Trans camera in play and as such any benefits might not apply to the older SuperCCD tech.

fPrime

fPrime wrote:

I must say Silky Pix does a pretty good job on CA/Purple Fringing compared to others I have tried.

How do we explain the purple fringing it left in the Silkypix corners here, though?

*see below

And regarding Silky's handling of the Fuji S5 Pro's Super Dooper CCD sensor, well...

https://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/products/ds3/manual/man0006.html#105

After all, Silky Pix do "head-up" RAW FILE CONVERTER EX 3.0 powered by SILKYPIX (just not applicable for the S5 Pro) http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/

Thanks, reading that it seems Silkypix reads both the S and R pixels at least. My comment about the video comparison still apply in the sense that it was obviously showing a more modern X-Trans camera in play and as such any benefits might not apply to the older SuperCCD tech.

fPrime

Good call my friend, and I only learned about all this last night. Even now (in order to grab you these screenies) I was fumbling my way around. The User Interface really is an unintuitive mess. Can't even find the Lens dialog to see if that also has Chromatic Aberration / Defringe tied to it. I am sure it was there earlier?? Haha, anyways, Silky Pix handles CA quite well, even though it seems to take a while to redraw the screen - at first it seems it doesn't work. It does...

Did I mention I hate computers? Well it's scenarios such as these being the reason why!

You even have to draw a box around the CA in the image. It is definitely a quirky application to use. Then again, Hyper Utility with its Register to Converter Tray. And then some. Maybe it's just y'all. Maybe all this is a Fuji thang

EE-TV wrote:

fPrime wrote:

I must say Silky Pix does a pretty good job on CA/Purple Fringing compared to others I have tried.

How do we explain the purple fringing it left in the Silkypix corners here, though?

Good call my friend, and I only learned about all this last night. Even now (in order to grab you these screenies) I was fumbling my way around. The User Interface really is an unintuitive mess. Can't even find the Lens dialog to see if that also has Chromatic Aberration / Defringe tied to it. I am sure it was there earlier?? Haha, anyways, Silky Pix handles CA quite well, even though it seems to take a while to redraw the screen - at first it seems it doesn't work. It does...

Okay, that looks a lot better!

Did I mention I hate computers? Well it's scenarios such as these being the reason why! You even have to draw a box around the CA in the image. It is definitely a quirky application to use. Then again, Hyper Utility with its Register to Converter Tray. And then some. Maybe it's just y'all. Maybe all this is a Fuji thang

Agreed that the Japanese user interface for both Silkypix and Hyper Utility are less than intuitive. The amazing thing is that HU is a 2007 era product and Silkypix is 2019 era but neither easy for us Westerners to use.

fPrime

fPrime wrote:

Beyond color fidelity, when considering any RAW processor for the S5 Pro the first question is does the converter know how to interpret and manage both the S and R pixels from the SuperCCD? Many don't. Secondly, does the RAW converter support Fuji's interpolation to 12MP in combination with balanced sharpening? Many only yield 6MP.

Most long time users of the S5 Pro have settled on either a Lightroom or Hyper Utility workflow for good reason... both converters tap the S and R pixels and interpolate a smooth 12MP. Hyper Utility is a bit slower but produces better image quality. Here's my own Hyper Utility conversion for comparison purposes:

fPrime

Apologise if I revive this old thread but at the actual date which is the RAW processor which does the better Fuji S-CCD conversion taking into account both R and S pixels and rendering the full size image (even tho it's an interpolation) rather than the "just" 6MP one (which I have been printing up to A3 with no visible artifacts at all)?

Grazie

Giovanni_1968 wrote:

fPrime wrote:

Beyond color fidelity, when considering any RAW processor for the S5 Pro the first question is does the converter know how to interpret and manage both the S and R pixels from the SuperCCD? Many don't. Secondly, does the RAW converter support Fuji's interpolation to 12MP in combination with balanced sharpening? Many only yield 6MP.

Most long time users of the S5 Pro have settled on either a Lightroom or Hyper Utility workflow for good reason... both converters tap the S and R pixels and interpolate a smooth 12MP. Hyper Utility is a bit slower but produces better image quality. Here's my own Hyper Utility conversion for comparison purposes:

fPrime

Apologise if I revive this old thread but at the actual date which is the RAW processor which does the better Fuji S-CCD conversion taking into account both R and S pixels and rendering the full size image (even tho it's an interpolation) rather than the "just" 6MP one (which I have been printing up to A3 with no visible artifacts at all)?

Grazie

My vote still goes to Hyper Utility, Goivanni. It has Fuji's color science, it knows how to best demosaic the Super-CCD sensor, and how to best interpolate it to 12MP.

Remember that the Fuji S5 has a diagonal sensor readout which helps it boost its otherwise ordinary 6MP resolution. Most users agree that the S5 Pro achieves a "practical" resolution of around 8MP provided that the demosaic and sharpness are both optimized and finely balanced in the conversion.

Beyond color science this is where I think Hyper Utility still has a quality advantage over Lightroom. HU can convert the S5 Pro RAW's with the fewest demosaic artifacts and thus the most natural sharpness. I also find its sharpening routines are specifically optimized for the S5 Pro whereas in Lightroom the sharpening tools are generalized for ordinary Bayer sensors.

Does HU have any limitations? Yes, it has an outdated user interface and no highlight recovery tools beyond Fuji’s own DR tool. It also does not offer automatic hot pixel removal, CA removal, or lens profiles. All of these tasks must be done via post processing.

But other RAW conversion packages have their own limitations for S5 Pro files too:

• Lightroom has good highlight recovery tools, automatic lens corrections, Adobe colors and tonal curves, and a modern user interface, but only offers 12 MP output. If one absolutely can't use HU, Lightroom is the second best choice.
• Capture One Pro can convert S5 Pro RAW files, but only at 6MP output. Even worse, it disables lens correction profiles which prevents C1’s chromatic aberration tool from working.
• DxO Optics Pro can convert S5 Pro RAW files into 6MP output with lens corrections, but it produces odd image artifacts like mottled blue skies and crushed fine color detail. I believe DxO Photolab has dropped support for Super CCD since then.
• Photo Ninja produces exceptional artifact free 6 MP renderings for the S5 Pro, but it doesn’t correct for Fuji’s diagonal sensor output and frequently misinterprets the camera’s WB settings.

I know Hyper Utility isn't certified for OSX on the Mac side, but do you have any virtual backwards compatibility modes on your Mac? Here on the Windows side I run Hyper Utility on Win 7 x64 in Windows-XP compatibility mode. Maybe you have something similar or can dual boot your Mac into Windows to run the Windows version of HU there?

fPrime

fPrime wrote:

Apologise if I revive this old thread but at the actual date which is the RAW processor which does the better Fuji S-CCD conversion taking into account both R and S pixels and rendering the full size image (even tho it's an interpolation) rather than the "just" 6MP one (which I have been printing up to A3 with no visible artifacts at all)?

Grazie

My vote still goes to Hyper Utility, Goivanni. It has Fuji's color science, it knows how to best demosaic the Super-CCD sensor, and how to best interpolate it to 12MP.

I know but, unfortunately, it's not supported since long by MacOSX and even back then it was so very much slow not to mention the interface being ugly compared to the majority of raw converters

Remember that the Fuji S5 has a diagonal sensor readout which helps it boost its otherwise ordinary 6MP resolution. Most users agree that the S5 Pro achieves a "practical" resolution of around 8MP provided that the demosaic and sharpness are both optimized and finely balanced in the conversion.

Never found the "limited" resolution to be a problem, I had labs print for me 4MP files from my very first digital camera to A4 size and they were perfect and the S5Pro ones are still hung at my walls in 12x18 and show no pixelation, the MP race is a big marketing instrument but I won't give away my D800 😉

Beyond color science this is where I think Hyper Utility still has a quality advantage over Lightroom. HU can convert the S5 Pro RAW's with the fewest demosaic artifacts and thus the most natural sharpness. I also find its sharpening routines are specifically optimized for the S5 Pro whereas in Lightroom the sharpening tools are generalized for ordinary Bayer sensors.

Does HU have any limitations? Yes, it has an outdated user interface and no highlight recovery tools beyond Fuji’s own DR tool. It also does not offer automatic hot pixel removal, CA removal, or lens profiles. All of these tasks must be done via post processing.

But other RAW conversion packages have their own limitations for S5 Pro files too:

• Lightroom has good highlight recovery tools, automatic lens corrections, Adobe colors and tonal curves, and a modern user interface, but only offers 12 MP output. If one absolutely can't use HU, Lightroom is the second best choice.

I agree on this since I use LR since a while and even tho am not an experienced user or do lot of post processing it comes very handy and even if to burn highlights with the S5Pro is a very though job that slider comes very handy...

• Capture One Pro can convert S5 Pro RAW files, but only at 6MP output. Even worse, it disables lens correction profiles which prevents C1’s chromatic aberration tool from working.
• DxO Optics Pro can convert S5 Pro RAW files into 6MP output with lens corrections, but it produces odd image artifacts like mottled blue skies and crushed fine color detail. I believe DxO Photolab has dropped support for Super CCD since then.
• Photo Ninja produces exceptional artifact free 6 MP renderings for the S5 Pro, but it doesn’t correct for Fuji’s diagonal sensor output and frequently misinterprets the camera’s WB settings.

I know Hyper Utility isn't certified for OSX on the Mac side, but do you have any virtual backwards compatibility modes on your Mac? Here on the Windows side I run Hyper Utility on Win 7 x64 in Windows-XP compatibility mode. Maybe you have something similar or can dual boot your Mac into Windows to run the Windows version of HU there?

I dunno if the HU are supported by an old MacMini I own but I guess so, it's a machine from 2007 (and still doing great when needed!), I gotta give it a try just for the sake of experimenting, thanks for your suggestion.

fPrime

Grazie mille fPrime, good conversation which wants me to get the S5Pro out to take some shots

I tried the free Fuji/Silkypix raw developer on the RAF: unsupported.

I tried Iridient X-Transformer: error

I tried Exposure X6, it opened the file quickly but it looked a little bit lackluster.

It opened in Microsoft Photos.  It took a while.  I had previously downloaded the free codec extension from the microsoft store.  Again, a little bit lackluster.

I tried Photoshop Elements 2020 (PSE). After about a minute (yes it sat there doing nothing at all for about a minute) it opened in the bundled and abbreviated Adobe Camera Raw v12.0.

Here is a screenshot from PSE (note this posted image is a .png, not a .jpg) :

About 1 minute after opening it in PSE 2020, and adjusting profile, temperature, and tint. Other settings are set to "auto".