GX80 but with Phase detect af?

Clean copy E-M1 and keep your current lenses, you're there.

Good luck!

Rick

Ru55 wrote:

Hopefully I can get someone’s advice here.

My current gear is as follows:

gx80

Panasonic 20mm 1.7

Olympus 45mm 1.8

Panasonic 14-42 first gen kit lens

I really enjoy my current setup. I like using prime lens for low light - being able to get a high FPS without needing a flash. I also like them for shallow dof sometimes.

However sometimes I just don’t get focus quick enough with moving subjects (young children) - because of the contrast detection system and end up losing out on a moment that I’d love to capture.

what I’d love to know is, what is the cheapest way to move to a phase detect camera with two equivalent prime lenses to what I already have.

I say cheap as the kits above cost approx £750 (not including the old kit lens). I’m looking for similar budget.

I shoot a mix of photo and video.

How do you know it's the lack of phase detection pixels?

You won't get a faster focussing camera in low light unless it's a g9. My gx80 focuses faster than my d750 in AFS. Tracking in AFC is where it is weak, but you don't need that for your use case.

Most likely it's your 20mm holding you back as it is the slowest focusing micro 4/3 lens. 15mm 1.7 works better for indoor candid family photos. Also your shutter speed is probably low - use a flash too.

Stick the 45mm on, put it in touch shutter release mode with the flash up and hit the screen when you want to grab a shot and it will capture it essentially instantly.

I was basically going to suggest the same things. In SAF the GX85 is pretty dang fast. I own an E-M1i and think my GX9 is probably faster and more accurate in SAF. And frankly I don't find the E-M1i to much better in CAF. I've never noticed that the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 focuses slower than other lenses on my GX9 but Panasonic lenses that support DFD are kind of optimized for focusing with Panasonic bodies. The 20 is among the slowest, perhaps the slowest, focusing native m43 lenses and I don't believe it even supports SAF.  Short of an E-M1ii or G9 I don't think any m43 camera is going to be much or any better. A body with really good CAF tracking might help. But a lot of times this comes down to user error, experience, and unrealistic expectations.

Thanks for the reply.

How does em1 compare to gx80 for video?

how would the 20mm perform on the em1. I’m guessing gx80 and 20mm use dfd which I would then lose on the em1?

Thanks for reply. Yes the 20mm can be slow to focus. Strictly speaking i don’t think it’s always that it’s slow to focus, it’s just it’s slow to actually move the lens elements to get to focus.

the issue I have is more when the contrast system just can’t cope or keep up with moving subjects, especially when they are moving towards the camera. I think phase detect would cope better. I don’t have experience of current phase detect cameras though to compare. I used to have a Sony APS-C phase detect so I have a bit of a reference point.

Sion H wrote:

Ru55 wrote:

Hopefully I can get someone’s advice here.

My current gear is as follows:

gx80

Panasonic 20mm 1.7

Olympus 45mm 1.8

Panasonic 14-42 first gen kit lens

I really enjoy my current setup. I like using prime lens for low light - being able to get a high FPS without needing a flash. I also like them for shallow dof sometimes.

However sometimes I just don’t get focus quick enough with moving subjects (young children) - because of the contrast detection system and end up losing out on a moment that I’d love to capture.

what I’d love to know is, what is the cheapest way to move to a phase detect camera with two equivalent prime lenses to what I already have.

I say cheap as the kits above cost approx £750 (not including the old kit lens). I’m looking for similar budget.

I shoot a mix of photo and video.

How do you know it's the lack of phase detection pixels?

You won't get a faster focussing camera in low light unless it's a g9. My gx80 focuses faster than my d750 in AFS. Tracking in AFC is where it is weak, but you don't need that for your use case.

Most likely it's your 20mm holding you back as it is the slowest focusing micro 4/3 lens. 15mm 1.7 works better for indoor candid family photos. Also your shutter speed is probably low - use a flash too.

Stick the 45mm on, put it in touch shutter release mode with the flash up and hit the screen when you want to grab a shot and it will capture it essentially instantly.

Hi Sion,

thanks for for the reply. I’m guessing it’s the contrast detection. Let me give you a scenario. I have focus, then the subject (young child) moves closer to the camera (more sort of back and forth movement) . I half press to lock focus and the lens will move through the full range and not lock. I sort of feel it’s not getting a constant amount of contrast in the scene to decide what to do - if that makes sense.

yes I have to use a slow-ish shutter speed because when I do lock focus I like to take a high amount of quickly successive photos due to the “action” and expressions that are rapidly changing!

Has anyone moved to an em1 and noticed a significant difference in focus of moving subjects, particularly subjects moving towards the camera?

Thanks for the reply. From what your saying the em1 wouldn’t give me any advantage but maybe a 15mm would. Any reason to keep the 20mm if I was to purchase a 15mm?

maybe this is the wrong forum but what about if I sold everything and started with a new system, body plus two primes in similar focal length. Does another system offer far superior focus speeds of subjects with the movement I describe?

Thanks for the reply. Is that the main advantage then of the pdaf in Olympus em1 for legacy lenses?

Yes it might be my experience and expectations. In the situation I describe I normally set the aperture to 1.7/1.8, iso to 800, single small box focus area in the middle of the screen, no flash. Normally this gives a shutter in the region of 120/160+.

Any advice on this?

Ru55 wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

How does em1 compare to gx80 for video?

To be honest I'm not enthused with the E-M1 video AF, which tends to "breathe" rather than locking and following a moving subject. The M1ii is much better, plus 4k, but even used will be at least 2x what the original model cost.

how would the 20mm perform on the em1. I’m guessing gx80 and 20mm use dfd which I would then lose on the em1?

The 20 is my slowest-focusing m4/3 lens on every body I own and there's no miraculous transformation with the E-M1. I have not used it on a DfD body but that can't improve the time required to rack focus, only the time to lock. (The 45/1.8 you mentioned is very fast by comparison, with little wandering.)

It's worth exploring how Oly uses PDAF with m4/3 lenses, which is in tandem with CDAF but only in C-AF mode. And E-M1 C-AF has user settings for AF lock sensitivity, which is hugely useful for tricky settings and fast or irregular subject movement. (There are myriad other relevant settings.) IMHO the level of customizability makes the camera a potent option even after five years, but it takes time and experimentation to wring out the best performance.

(I found this article very helpful in comparing AF systems of the two E-M1 models.)

Cheers,

Rick

Even with m43 those apertures are not giving you much depth of field so if you're off just a little you'll probably see softness. I'd crank the iso to at least 1600 and perhaps 3200. Yes, more noise but I once heard an instructional video in which Jay Maisel said "a little noise never hurt a good photograph." I'd also try using a custom focus box rather than a single focal point. Maybe a 9x9 or something like that. I might also try CAF; might fail miserably in that light but... I'd also consider using a strobe. I'd highly recommend looking at Neil Van Niekirk's (SP? stuff). He shows how to bounce light and he tries to keep all direct flash light off the subject. He uses a really expensive flash modifier called a "black foamy thing" held onto his strobe by one of his daughters hair thingies. I use gaffers tab. You can get some really nice light with a strobe if used with just a little skill. I saw below that in a later post you asked about other systems. I have no experience. The Nikon D500 seems to be very highly regarded with respect to CAF and tracking. That's going to be considerably heavier and it's not cheap, though the price is not out of line for what that camera can seem to do. The AF system in some of the Sonys such as the A6300/6500 seem to have good reputations. Not recommending any of the above, just suggesting that if you want to start looking at other systems those might be some things to look at. I'd also suggest renting for a while. I'm just not sure that any technology is going to provide an infallible solution here. Capturing moving subjects in low light is just not that easy. And the more you try things and practice technique, the more success you'll often have. I can't buy the technology to ski like Mikaela Shiffrin and no matter what camera I'm using I probably will never capture the moment like Henri Cartier-Bressen.  Have fun and good luck.