A fantastic affordable camera you can still buy new from eBay

paul613 wrote:

Guy Parsons's many posts inspired me to switch from a Panasonic G3 to a silver Olympus E-P5. It looks and handles like a jewel.

Yes, my pair of E-P5 live on. Can't see anything current or on the horizon that I would like to replace them.

My menu list at http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/56-ep5-custom-menus.html if anyone decides to go that route.

Last week, I took delivery of my second E-P5, a white model ordered from Japan. The white one lives on my belt, soon to be joined by a white Olympus 9mm body-cap lens. My black VF-4 viewfinder stays on the silver body. But to help me compose in bright sun, I've dialed up the brightness of my LCD (under "Setup"). I'm hoping that this discreet, svelte, all-white setup, together with the body's flip screen and the lens's ultrawide field of view, will allow me to capture more candid shots.

I find no problems even with the 12-40/2.8 for random street shots, always screen and never the VF-2 and nobody seems to flinch.

I don't know how many times I've used DPReview's "compare cameras" feature to compare the E-P5 against other Pens--the older E-P3, or the newer E-PL7, 8, and 9. None of the other Pens would save more than 65 grams, and none would use the same BLN-1 battery. The E-PL9, at least, would give me an electronic shutter and a newer JPEG engine, without giving up the built-in flash.

If anyone has been wondering what they're missing, now is a great time to pick up one of these older Pens on eBay.

An American seller has at least 10 (probably 20) black E-P5s, new in their sealed boxes, for $260 U.S. , with free shipping within the States; he'll ship to other countries, too.

Only potential downside is the possibility of front/rear dial failure (on some batches I guess). My black one failed early and badly but fixed under warranty and never failed again. My silver one with a slightly earlier serial number has been always good.

It's a must to bring the firmware up to date on purchase as then the 0 second anti-shock is available and solves the initial shock problems.

A used E-P3 can be bought from Japan in any color for about $130 to $200 shipped.

I would not bother, never warmed to my E-P3 that Olympus gave me as a replacement for an unfixable E-PL1.

A used E-P8 can be bought from Japan in any color for about $250 shipped.

I guess you mean E-PL8 which is also good with later firmware and image processing features, but not the same feel and heft as the good and great E-P5.

My timeline has a few clues as to feature changes. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/80-Oly-timeline.html

..........................................

Oh for a real E-P6!

Simple to keep the same body and controls, update the sensor and image chip, lose the pop-up flash and fit a fixed or pop-up VF-4 equivalent. Job done. Oh yes, must be tilt screen again and not that flippy out sideways thing.

Sigh, will never happen in this era of proposed expensive huge and chunky E-M1X things.

Regards...... Guy

Guy Parsons wrote:

paul613 wrote:

Guy Parsons's many posts inspired me to switch from a Panasonic G3 to a silver Olympus E-P5. It looks and handles like a jewel.

Yes, my pair of E-P5 live on. Can't see anything current or on the horizon that I would like to replace them.

My menu list at http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/56-ep5-custom-menus.html if anyone decides to go that route.

Last week, I took delivery of my second E-P5, a white model ordered from Japan. The white one lives on my belt, soon to be joined by a white Olympus 9mm body-cap lens. My black VF-4 viewfinder stays on the silver body. But to help me compose in bright sun, I've dialed up the brightness of my LCD (under "Setup"). I'm hoping that this discreet, svelte, all-white setup, together with the body's flip screen and the lens's ultrawide field of view, will allow me to capture more candid shots.

I find no problems even with the 12-40/2.8 for random street shots, always screen and never the VF-2 and nobody seems to flinch.

I don't know how many times I've used DPReview's "compare cameras" feature to compare the E-P5 against other Pens--the older E-P3, or the newer E-PL7, 8, and 9. None of the other Pens would save more than 65 grams, and none would use the same BLN-1 battery. The E-PL9, at least, would give me an electronic shutter and a newer JPEG engine, without giving up the built-in flash.

If anyone has been wondering what they're missing, now is a great time to pick up one of these older Pens on eBay.

An American seller has at least 10 (probably 20) black E-P5s, new in their sealed boxes, for $260 U.S. , with free shipping within the States; he'll ship to other countries, too.

Only potential downside is the possibility of front/rear dial failure (on some batches I guess). My black one failed early and badly but fixed under warranty and never failed again. My silver one with a slightly earlier serial number has been always good.

It's a must to bring the firmware up to date on purchase as then the 0 second anti-shock is available and solves the initial shock problems.

A used E-P3 can be bought from Japan in any color for about $130 to $200 shipped.

I would not bother, never warmed to my E-P3 that Olympus gave me as a replacement for an unfixable E-PL1.

A used E-P8 can be bought from Japan in any color for about $250 shipped.

I guess you mean E-PL8 which is also good with later firmware and image processing features, but not the same feel and heft as the good and great E-P5.

My timeline has a few clues as to feature changes. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/80-Oly-timeline.html

..........................................

Oh for a real E-P6!

Simple to keep the same body and controls, update the sensor and image chip, lose the pop-up flash and fit a fixed or pop-up VF-4 equivalent. Job done. Oh yes, must be tilt screen again and not that flippy out sideways thing.

Sigh, will never happen in this era of proposed expensive huge and chunky E-M1X things.

Regards...... Guy

(Joking)

GM5+, sigh .... why don’t they make the cameras that the users really want and not the ones that sell well on the market?  This is one of life’s little conundrums ....

Maybe it is because those that know that they have a good one tend to keep it and not upgrade.  I am sure that this is why every so often car manufacturers make cars that are so ugly and sell them to everyone who must upgrade to every model released - then they make more handsome models and even those that would never buy an ugly vehicle will buy one ....

Maybe someting like airbags - fit them and then tell all car owners that all other cars are suddenly unsafe wthout them.  IBIS?  How did we ever manage pre-IBIS? Plurry silly lens OIS .... Dual stabilisation?  Oh, I never though about that .... (But Olympus IBIS will always be better .... and can also be proved by any test).

Cameras take images for our amusement it they are amusing then we enjoy them but there must always be something that sings and dances better and ... there is always the Joneses ....  Mr Jones sells a lot of cameras and lenses ... (grin)

PS: for our non-native-English-language friends - my joke as in the expression “keeping up with the Joneses” = not letting your neighbours (“the Joneses”) have a better car (for example) than you have - or camera/mobile-phone for that matter.

Tom Caldwell wrote

(Joking)

GM5+, sigh .... why don’t they make the cameras that the users really want and not the ones that sell well on the market? This is one of life’s little conundrums ....

The huge problem is the uncharted waters that the industry is now encountering. The smartphone has totally destroyed the compact camera market and threatens ever higher spec models. So makers are retreating to the high end of the market where smartphones cannot compete at the moment and they know that they will sell less cameras so each one has to create a greater profit.

Though there is faint hope, for instance my adult daughter has finally realised how crappy smartphones are for photography and has bought an ambitious bridge camera and is having enormous fun.

Maybe it is because those that know that they have a good one tend to keep it and not upgrade.

Comes a point when something is good enough, so why change? For maybe the last 5 or so years just about all cameras have been good enough, so that also will also explain some of the camera sales slowdown.

The situation is really dire, email in this morning Digidirect with 20% off on some Olympus lenses and bodies, plus other brands as well. Usually that only happens at 10% and only at other times of the year. I suspect that we will see a rush of bricks and mortar stores closing this year.

So take advantage of sales and make sure that you have all that you really need to get through the next few years.

Plus, stop waiting for GM5 MK2.

Regards......... Guy

Guy Parsons wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote

(Joking)

GM5+, sigh .... why don’t they make the cameras that the users really want and not the ones that sell well on the market? This is one of life’s little conundrums ....

The huge problem is the uncharted waters that the industry is now encountering. The smartphone has totally destroyed the compact camera market and threatens ever higher spec models. So makers are retreating to the high end of the market where smartphones cannot compete at the moment and they know that they will sell less cameras so each one has to create a greater profit.

Though there is faint hope, for instance my adult daughter has finally realised how crappy smartphones are for photography and has bought an ambitious bridge camera and is having enormous fun.

Maybe it is because those that know that they have a good one tend to keep it and not upgrade.

Comes a point when something is good enough, so why change? For maybe the last 5 or so years just about all cameras have been good enough, so that also will also explain some of the camera sales slowdown.

The situation is really dire, email in this morning Digidirect with 20% off on some Olympus lenses and bodies, plus other brands as well. Usually that only happens at 10% and only at other times of the year. I suspect that we will see a rush of bricks and mortar stores closing this year.

So take advantage of sales and make sure that you have all that you really need to get through the next few years.

Plus, stop waiting for GM5 MK2.

This is a very good remark and reuires a personal explanation:

Like you I am blissfully happy with what I have had the presense of mind to have bought.  When I sensed that the GM series was on back foot I made sure that I had enough bodies to realise my dream of multiple small “cameras” each with a semi-fixed lens attached.

To my mind this is a far better concept than the one camera body many lenses paradigm of all but the most advanced user. To do this you must either be a professional with the impressive kit and an assistant and big budget or have “small camera body”.  And yet the popular idiom is that small camera bodies are not capable.  I doubt if this will ever change and although Panasonic tried (very hard) it seems that only large camera bodies have “status” and although the forum complains that “they are as big as some FF sensor camera bodies” that is what apparently sells to the bulk of M4/3 camera body users - otherwise they would not be made.

However I make my pleas for the GM series so that someone at least is banging the drum for this size of camera body in a high quality build.  I realise that I am not alone but it is far too easy to categorise small cameras as second rate and deficient.  The GM cameras ar not deficient but I also realise that many prefer the larger size body.  Furthermore the size issue trotted out (that M4/3 bodies are as large as some FF camera bodies) is downright silly as they are sold just as fast as they can be made, there are other sizes and types (smaller) that are also avaialble to buy and if anyone really wanted a tiny M4/3 body then the GM series was there ready and winking at them and largely ignored by those that just had to have a larger camera body .... with all the added features ....

So I am happy with GM, I don’t want a GM5+ at any time soon, but I do want these cameras to be re-marketed and even Olympus should look at something similar.  But to do so we have to convince enough M4/3 people that tiny M4/3 camera bodies are very capable.

If the GM5+ were launched farly soon it would cause me untold grief - my GM5 bodies work well as serparate cameras - they use the same bodies and use the same control structure.  As yet, unlike the Ricoh GXR, there is no easy way to keep setup synchronised - but the G9 ability to save setup to SD card is promising. I just laboriously set each GM series camera to my own preferred settings and then keep them more or less tuned to that.  Unfortunately if I decide to change one of my basic settings I have to do this separately on every body - but this is not a big deal.

But the big deal would be a seriously upgraded “must have” GM5+ as this would presure me to upgrade a raft of present GM5 bodies and not just one camera body.  To do it in steps and stairs would be like any other backup  superseded model - not quite the same as multiple identically-controlled “cameras”.

So I wish the GM5 concept to be continued but I personally am in no rush for a new upgraded fleet of GM5 “cameras”.  I saw this coming and am well provided myself - thank you.

I just think that more users could well use multiple small very capable camera bodies used as seperate cameras - the interface should be identical and here should be a ready means of keeping their personal user setup synchronised.

I would also like to see this realised about the time when my present GM5 bodies wear out from use - maybe in another five years perhaps - but others should not have to wait that long - that is precisely where I am coming from.

Beside this whole forum seems to be into “upgrading camera bodies” - I am past that and now “wallowing” in the fact that great lenses also make your present camera body work better. But it seems that the “quick fix” of a new camera body is generally preferred.

To answer your other comment:  all current regular camera sales have hit a bit of a wall with the announcement that Nikon and Canon are (effecively) quitting the dslr line.

For the average punter out there who simply wants a proper camera and the shop owner gladly obliged with an entry level dlsr kit the whole world has changed and presumably all sales have stopped and not just the dslr type - more to do with just what shops will recommend to the punter looking for a proper camera - they can hardly sell them a new FF ML body and lens at a price that would break the average “proper camera” purchasers jaw (when it hit the floor), nor could they ethically sell them yet another entry level dslr kit - but many would and will.  Meanwhile the slow filtering of the news thtough to newbies would lead them as perplexed and perplexed people perefer to do nothing.

Soon enough the newbie market will be fixed up with affordable “proper cameras” for the meantime superseded A7 camera bodies are probably cheap enough.

Here is the chance for the M4/3 vendors to snap up a few newbies looking for proper cameras - of course they have to be big enough to look impressive and cheap enough for the newbies to make themselves afford.

Regards......... Guy

paul613 wrote:

I don't know how many times I've used DPReview's "compare cameras" feature to compare the E-P5 against other Pens--the older E-P3, or the newer E-PL7, 8, and 9. None of the other Pens would save more than 65 grams, and none would use the same BLN-1 battery. The E-PL9, at least, would give me an electronic shutter and a newer JPEG engine, without giving up the built-in flash.

The only camera that can replace E-P5 is the anniversary model PEN-F. It is about same size as the E-P5 and the similar dual-dial design. But comes with few extras and changes (for good and bad). The main bonus is that you get to use the same battery.

When the PEN-F gets old and discontinued, Olympus hopefully would release E-P6 to continue PEN line flagship model by keeping the design similar. But as Olympus has shown they are not interested anymore for AP2 port, it would mean no more VF-4 or VF-2 for it.

WhiteBeard wrote:

paul613 wrote:

Guy Parsons's many posts inspired me to switch from a Panasonic G3 to a silver Olympus E-P5. It looks and handles like a jewel.

Paul S. in Maryl

I''s yet another of these apples and oranges comparisons... The G3 has an EVF, not a great one, but an usable one The EP-5 has none (except with an extra external one $$). Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm...

Fair enough comment. In my case I always, well, almost always, use screens for shooting and only very rarely indulge in an EVF, thus the E-P5 suits me. I do have the VF-2 but for a period of about 3 years it never was used so stopped carrying it in the bag. Lately I went back to occasional peek with the VF-2 to see what I may be missing, and the result is I strongly prefer a screen to look at and also get the usually better or more comfortable shooting angle/position of using a screen.

Plus in my personal exhaustive testing of IBIS performance I found that screen use gave a whisker more reliable results than holding the camera against my face with the EVF.

So, screens for me. But tilt only screens and not those flippy out sideways things.

Regards..... Guy

WhiteBeard wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

Plus in my personal exhaustive testing of IBIS performance I found that screen use gave a whisker more reliable results than holding the camera against my face with the EVF.

That is interesting and rather counter intuitive. I would have thought that holding the camera with both hands and close to your face would provide more stability...

Yes, a surprise to me as well. Maybe it's because the IBIS is better tuned to human movements that may happen with camera held out a bit from the body.

In reality it was only a tiny difference and probably well within the realms of experimental variations, so I am a bit bold to make that statement above.

The best performance hand-held and with screen use a couple of years back was 1/2 second at 40mm with the E-P5 (over 5 stops), but currently I can't seem to get much past 1/4 second at 40mm (something over 4 stops). That performance is good enough for all the things that I do. It means that I never carry a tripod on holidays any more.

Regards..... Guy

epozar wrote:

VF-4 is expensive

You can find it sometimes at 149/199€ prices, but considering that it really is only for older PENs, as using it top of OM-D is little useful.

The benefit is that it has larger magnification than E-M1, while by specs it is same. It is about 1,48x vs 1,52x difference, easy to see when using on same body.