SX70..why all the critics? Take the SX70 challenge :)

jshen808 wrote:

..As I pointed out previously that both the FZ80 & FZ300 pictures/images falls short and is not up to par..

..and really should not be compared to the SX60 & SX70 cameras at all..

(see the below links)

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4353755?page=2#forum-post-62125516

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4353755?page=2#forum-post-62126227

***********

These links show no EXIF data...so means nothing to me. No way of knowing the settings used . As you know these can make a difference to the I.Q.

Plus who shot these, what settings did the use ?

They are about the worst images I've seen from ANY camera...so what did you do to make them look so bad?

Or perhaps the user (do they know you posted their links here?) used digital zoom?

Where is the EXIF data?

Here's REAL Images with EXIF data from FZ80: (not links)

Why the SX70 might NOT be in same class as cheaper FZ80:

ISO 200

1020mm -1EV 1/100th

1699mm

GBH @ 1100mm ISO 200 -1.33 EV

How about the excellent O.I.S. of the FZ80:

(can SX70 compete )?

1/60th @ 750mm -1.33 EV ISO 200

1/20th at 1200mm as all...handheld.

All handheld..I took all of these. I I have plenty more to share.

Let me know why these don't even compare to the SX60/70?

Show me same or better images. Outdoors , birds or other subjects at a distance.

Not from other folk...you have the SX60 and SX70..love to see yours, jshen808.

and then we can believe you that the FZ80 is NOT in same league as SX60/70.

...I await your detailed shots from the SX60/SX70 ..but if you don't have any , show other peoples images ..from the SX70 this time

Now that we know what the lowly FZ80 can do....I hope the SX70 will produce even better I.Q.

Can't wait !

Peace

ANAYV

ANAYV,

excellent images.  I would say it is very capable camera and very good photographer!

Chaplain Mark wrote:

I'm very confused by the original post...starts out discussing the SX70 and SX60, but goes on to display and discuss several photos taken with the Panny FZ80.

What is the posting actually about?

It's all in the title, Chaplain Mark.

I mention about newer folk here (I see you are new as well) , not familiar with how new cameras get criticized when first images come out, as well as when features are removed or settings not in newer camera, that previous model had.

That some of us compare the older models with the newer models, and don't like if we see I.Q. degrade (see old SX50/60 threads)... thus some negative remarks when first images show up.

Been 4 years since a newer SXxx was released..so many of us older SX50 users were hoping for same or better I.Q. from that classic Canon superzoom!

Typical, here at DPreview, to critique and dissect camera features, I.Q. , etc.  . No harm meant, no reason for anyone to be offended. No personal attacks..it's just a camera

We review and compare cameras..it's in the name of the website

That's the first part of the subject title." SX70..why all the critics?"

Second part:

I mention that I have the FZ80 and was looking at the SX70...but wanted as least same I.Q. along with many better features...but thus far , hardly any images showing improved I.Q. (my opinion, and a few others)

Then I read were some were commenting that the FZ80 is not even in same class and should not be compared to SX60/70. Claims that it is inferior, and posting links to terrible shots not with EXIF data, not well representing the FZ80.

Granted it's a low end camera, much cheaper than the SX70, but it so similar with lens (both 65x optical zoom, 1/2.3" sensor cameras, with 4K video.)

FZ80 goes wide, SX70 goes longer. FZ80 known for not so great I.Q. but fast AF and operation.

So I posed a challenge (see subject title), since I would love to see images of birds and wildlife at the telephoto end from the SX70.

"Take the SX70 challenge "  is the second part of the subject title.

Hope I made this easier for you to understand.

Take care

ANAYV

Stephen McDonald wrote:

Very good photos from your FZ80.

Thanks.

But it does not have a mike input and it's two years old.

Yep. But it does have a touchscreen and a hotshoe. Had 4K video and 4K photo back two years ago.  Lacks in some  areas, gains in others.  Class leading AF of all superzooms. (DFD AF)  For stills. Not sure about for video.

Not know for good I.Q.  Non Leica branded lens. No tilt/swivel LCD...and no eye sensor for the lower resolution EVF.

For me, I have no need for mic input. The camera does  has low end stereo mics, enough for audio documentation. I rarely shoot video..so don't miss that feature, nor interested in quality of video. It's an extra feature, for me.

And I have never seen video from any Panasonic model, that maintained a sharp and unbroken autofocus, when zooming or panning.

I wouldn't know.

Many people may not even notice that, but to me, it's unacceptable. There's a lot of customers for cameras, the majority I'm sure, who just don't pay much attention to such details.

Not if they don't shoot video, and bought these cameras for....you know....taking photo's

And in regards to the SX70, I've been ferreting-out every image and video I can find online. There have been a few people who have posted very good images from it. And then they are some who put up hundreds of shots and not a single one is sharply-focused. Some of these are also not well-exposed. It's easy to get discouraged about a new model, when you see all those poor examples. But those are to be ignored, as only the best images will show you the camera's potential.

that's the reason for this post...to see the results ..but at the long end, mainly and of subjects like small birds. I use my FZ80 for telephoto shots....and want improved I.Q.

I figure this thread will be here for a while, and folk, over time ,  can add their telephoto shots as they get more used to the SX70...and have time to take photo's of wildlife.

Time to fool with settings...find out what works best.

Also await CameraLabs and Dpreviews review , as well as Imaging Resource.

Figure I post  some real shots of the FZ80..and set  a standard from which other shots can be compared to.

I already had the time to find out what settings and adjustments work best for me with the FZ80 and what I shoot, so would be a good representation of the FZ80, me thinks.

ANAYV

Chaplain Mark wrote:

ANAYV wrote:

Chaplain Mark wrote:

I'm very confused by the original post...starts out discussing the SX70 and SX60, but goes on to display and discuss several photos taken with the Panny FZ80.

What is the posting actually about?

It's all in the title, Chaplain Mark.

I mention about newer folk here (I see you are new as well) , not familiar with how new cameras get criticized when first images come out, as well as when features are removed or settings not in newer camera, that previous model had.

That some of us compare the older models with the newer models, and don't like if we see I.Q. degrade (see old SX50/60 threads)... thus some negative remarks when first images show up.

Been 4 years since a newer SXxx was released..so many of us older SX50 users were hoping for same or better I.Q. from that classic Canon superzoom!

Typical, here at DPreview, to critique and dissect camera features, I.Q. , etc. . No harm meant, no reason for anyone to be offended. No personal attacks..it's just a camera

We review and compare cameras..it's in the name of the website

That's the first part of the subject title." SX70..why all the critics?"

Second part:

I mention that I have the FZ80 and was looking at the SX70...but wanted as least same I.Q. along with many better features...but thus far , hardly any images showing improved I.Q. (my opinion, and a few others)

Then I read were some were commenting that the FZ80 is not even in same class and should not be compared to SX60/70. Claims that it is inferior, and posting links to terrible shots not with EXIF data, not well representing the FZ80.

Granted it's a low end camera, much cheaper than the SX70, but it so similar with lens (both 65x optical zoom, 1/2.3" sensor cameras, with 4K video.)

FZ80 goes wide, SX70 goes longer. FZ80 known for not so great I.Q. but fast AF and operation.

So I posed a challenge (see subject title), since I would love to see images of birds and wildlife at the telephoto end from the SX70.

"Take the SX70 challenge " is the second part of the subject title.

Hope I made this easier for you to understand.

Take care

ANAYV

I totally understand how it is that new cameras (and not-so-new) get badmouthed here on DPR, especially by those members who don't own the camera being bashed and who merely repeat the wording of the negative reviews they have read.

no...we have seen images from folk here, who own it! That's a big difference than just blindly going by what any review site may say. No real reviews are out yet, anyway...so not sure what you mean about that... Plus some of us owned older versions of this model. Perhaps too high expectations for 2018 camera?

It took me awhile to sort through those kinds of postings and "reviews" when deciding upon my G3X and G5X.

It can confuse..but not meant to. Comparing and dissecting camera's is normal here...bashing/ trashing  individuals is not. Camera's are NOT people.

I think the part of your original post which confused me was the invitation to an SX70 challenge, which was then followed by images from the Panny instead of images or discussion of the SX70. The post somehow did not track logically for me.

Well... I can understand. One person here owned the FZ80..didn't like it and is now testing out the SX70. He shoots birds from a distance , as i do.

He shares his thoughts , images and settings. jshen808 has also does the same, only didn't own the FZ80, but did own the SX50 (and now SX60).

So these are helpful info..but we are allowed to comment on what we see.

FZ80 mentioned as competitor. Seeing images helps to compare one to another. pictures can say a 1,000 words, or so I read

That's the rules here...  somehow some folk always take this personal..they get too  personal...and  say things they shouldn't say...motives gone bad, for some reason.

Then again, that's just how my linear brain operates...!!!

I am far from logical (God knows I need help, lol) ...but no personal attacks from me.....no bashing of camera, or I would not have repeatedly praised the good things about it, along with what I saw and didn't like,  nor would I be here if not personally interested in the SX70.

For instance , I found out that Canon finally has a sweep panoramic mode (some of us been waiting many years for this, ever since they removed the ' Stitch Assist' feature .

..and it's better implemented than Panasonic, which limits you to the 20mm wide end ONLY. SX70 can do it at any zoom position!

Call me initially disappointed..but semi optimistic. Sorry for the long post, but know you are fairly new here. ...and wanted to explain.

ANAYV

aodi wrote:

ANAYV,

excellent images. I would say it is very capable camera and very good photographer!

Thanks, aodi. But that was not the reason for the post.

This is about cameras, not people behind them.

Yes the camera is capable, as shown.

Pictures tell a tale that specs and owners defending their purchase might not.

Figure I clear the air of those who think the FZ80 is not in same league as SX60/70.

I see that worked.

Take AF speed. which is faster?

Look for features like control over sharpening and NR (a must for anyone shooting with FZ80, as default settings produce terrible results, as shown by jshen808).

some features are better with the SX70...much welcomed.

Just fixing some ' Fake News' going on with terrible samples, and images at default settings with FZ80...yet they are finding all ways to change settings on SX70 to make it look better....some going to RAW already......truth is all cameras need setting adjusted to user, for best results.

Mmmmm..let me find the worst image on flicker, and post here to show what the FZ80 is capable of...so funny...

I show proof ...in real world images, (not studio test shots, which show more detail in some areas, and less in others). Personally I don't shoot test images, indoors with a superzoom designed for far away subjects, that move!  Funny, though.

once settings are figured out.....which is what some here are doing with the SX70 (Avian and jshen808)...and more real world user images show up, we will get a better answer.....is the SX70 the one to get..or should we wait for another?

Let's hope they can find the right settings to make images look better than the lowly FZ80.  Hopefully in jpeg...not RAW

Still waiting...

ANAYV

MyM3 wrote:

Please upload the full size, unedited “out of camera” jpeg’s from your FZ80. Then maybe we can compare. Else it is just comparing apples and bananas.

Right. Don't mind the editing, ANAYV is shooting with reduced settings, so the images are supposed to be edited afterwards, but full size images would be nice. We are pixel peeping 20mp SX70 images at 100%. Not the same as images downsampled to 3mp.

Btw. I dont like the colors in the FZ80 photos. The SX70 seems much better.

MyM3 wrote:

Please upload the full size, unedited “out of camera” jpeg’s from your FZ80. Then maybe we can compare. Else it is just comparing apples and bananas.

Well, they would do no good, as I lower sharpness to -5..and NR to -5...and contrast to -1.

These would result in dull, flat images. That would prove nothing, except that one needs to lower these, to get decent quality out of the FZ80.

FZ80 is the underdog here...way cheaper...low , non Leica branded lens (all Panasonic superzooms and travel zooms have the Leica Logo..just not the FZ80).

It's well known about its not so good I.Q. at default settings. Same for many other cameras. But worse on the FZ80...than most others. it was the same for the previous FZ70

Dpreview compared it to a few superzooms.

Here's some studio scene shots right here from DPreview:

I chose SX60, FZ80 , P610  and P1000:

I see the FZ80 showing  more detail...but also more noise. these are all at default settings and base ISO.

SX60 does worse at higher ISO's, removing more detail. FZ80 does worse revealing more noise.

But...not a true test of what each camera can do, IMHO.

I only use the Free FastSTone Image viewer for most every shot i edit. ...and there is no layers, masks, or all the fancy stuff that Phoroshop has. Just basic shadow/highlight, levels, contrast saturation and sharpness.

Btw. I dont like the colors in the FZ80 photos. The SX70 seems much better.

I agree. Canon has always been known for better colors.

Panasonic...never, really.

Fuji. Yes. Canon. Yes.

I just like detail on feathers, hair, fur...subjects i shoot with the FZ80..and whatever other superzoom I may buy.

Isn't it nice to have choices?

I'd love the zoom range on the P1000..but it's too heavy/bulky...for me...for others , it's fine.

ANAYV

Steen Bay wrote:

MyM3 wrote:

Please upload the full size, unedited “out of camera” jpeg’s from your FZ80. Then maybe we can compare. Else it is just comparing apples and bananas.

Right. Don't mind the editing, ANAYV is shooting with reduced settings, so the images are supposed to be edited afterwards, but full size images would be nice. We are pixel peeping 20mp SX70 images at 100%. Not the same as images downsampled to 3mp.

Btw. I dont like the colors in the FZ80 photos. The SX70 seems much better.

MyM3 wrote:

ANAYV wrote:

MyM3 wrote:

Please upload the full size, unedited “out of camera” jpeg’s from your FZ80. Then maybe we can compare. Else it is just comparing apples and bananas.

Well, they would do no good, as I lower sharpness to -5..and NR to -5...and contrast to -1.

I take it that you are afraid to show us the full size photos, then.

Hhaha..what happens to me...afraid of ???

I never post full size images..no way to protect them. i don't add copyright info on them...plus quicker to download smaller files. Plus most viewers only have 2MP screens (Ipads, Tablets, Cellphones, etc.

These would result in dull, flat images. That would prove nothing, except that one needs to lower these, to get decent quality out of the FZ80.

It would be very interesting to see the best starting point.

But at least you should upload the full size (18MB) edited versions.

I lower my FZ80 to 9MP..this gives me 1699mm reach!

Seems like you are very interested in pixel peeping.

Yes, unfortunately.

So please show us.

for you, i make an exception..just answer the question for me (think i asked once, already)

I just posted two shots.

So..are you interested in buying the SX70..or have no interest.. just reading various posts?

Thanks

ANAYV