Can Lumix G7 "downscale" 4K to 1080 video in the camera ?

After reading many, many reviews I'm seriously considering the Lumix G7 for timelapse video, and also as my entry in micro four thirds and 4K video. One of the reviews said the detail of 4k video is four times that of 1080. At present, we have nothing to view 4k but perhaps in the future. The review also said that 4k "downscales nicely" to 1080 . So I have three questions:

1) Does the G7 downscale 4K to 1080 in the camera ?

2) When 4k is downscaled to 1080p , how much if any detail is lost ?

3) Is my interest in 4k video a waste of time and money when I have only 1080 TV and computer ?

Any insight or advice is appreciated.  Thank you.

Just a causal video shooter and so wish some experts can come in for more accurate answer.

On GX85:

red sled wrote:

After reading many, many reviews I'm seriously considering the Lumix G7 for timelapse video, and also as my entry in micro four thirds and 4K video. One of the reviews said the detail of 4k video is four times that of 1080. At present, we have nothing to view 4k but perhaps in the future. The review also said that 4k "downscales nicely" to 1080 . So I have three questions:

1) Does the G7 downscale 4K to 1080 in the camera ?

No IIRC (never do similar thing in camera). I suppose G7 will not do it. I downscale 4K video into 1080 by Free Video Editor on PC.

2) When 4k is downscaled to 1080p , how much if any detail is lost ?

No to my acknowledge, and will produce sharper result than native 1080 footage.

3) Is my interest in 4k video a waste of time and money when I have only 1080 TV and computer ?

Depends. It is future proof if not immediately enjoyed now. Soon you shall upgrade to 4K TV and monitor since their cost been come down rapidly. If you shoot in 4K, you can guarantee to have full enjoyment of them when you upgraded your gear later. So a few more years to go. If you shoot 1080, in next few years you might end up with a lower resolution footage after upgrading your gear. I must admitted that 1080 is still looking very nice on my new 4K TV.

Any insight or advice is appreciated. Thank you.

It is a technology driven world and so, better prepare for the soon future.

BTW, if money is not a big concern, you might better look for G85 since the Dual IS-2 can do an amazing job for handheld video, or run and gun recording. A recent thread yesterday from a G7 upgraded to G85 shooter on his experience might interest you. G7 cost a a lot less, but minded being the last batch of Pany cameras using the last generation of hardware. IMHO the cost saving might not worth it. YMMV.

red sled wrote:

After reading many, many reviews I'm seriously considering the Lumix G7 for timelapse video, and also as my entry in micro four thirds and 4K video. One of the reviews said the detail of 4k video is four times that of 1080. At present, we have nothing to view 4k but perhaps in the future. The review also said that 4k "downscales nicely" to 1080 . So I have three questions:

1) Does the G7 downscale 4K to 1080 in the camera ?

Do you mean taking a 4K file and then creating a 1080p file from that? If so, it can't do that in camera (although you can use software on your computer to do it). You can however directly record to 1080p in the camera (p246-247 shows the recording formats supported by the camera).

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-g7_adv_en_om.pdf

If you mean connecting the G7 to a TV or monitor with an HDMI cable and it downscaling the 4K footage to 1080p during playback, then yes it can do that (see page 78 in advanced manual; by default it automatically downscales to a resolution your TV supports, but you can also manually set it).

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-g7_adv_en_om.pdf

2) When 4k is downscaled to 1080p , how much if any detail is lost ?

Obviously you get only a quarter of the megapixels, however, the image will still appear sharper because you are oversampling: you have 4 pixels of data for every 1 pixel (see more details below).

3) Is my interest in 4k video a waste of time and money when I have only 1080 TV and computer ?

No it is not. 4K has better image quality even if you downscale it to 1080p. Part of it has to do with more bitrate when recording in 4K (100Mbps vs 20-28Mbps), the other has to do with oversampling. It also gives you flexibility to crop the image and future-proofs you more (your footage may be displayed by others with 4K or even 8K screens).

This article explains all the benefits:

https://www.dpreview.com/what-is-4k/

red sled wrote:

Thank you Albert and Jake you make good points and food for thought. I looked for the thread of the G7 owner upgrading to the G85 but couldn't find it. But I'll go look again. And I'll read the article about 4k. Thanks.

The thread about IBIS of G85 vs non IBIS of G7 on video shooting:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62102832

red sled wrote:

...3) At current prices here, the G7 with kit lens is $498 and the GH4 without lens is $698. I am new to 4K and I've never done video editing. Would you recommend starting with the G7 and kit lens rather than investing in the GH4 and having to buy a lens ?

I got my G7 with the 14-140 kit lens. It costs a bit more than the standard 14-42 kit lens, but it's the closest you can get to a zoom lens that goes from wide to mid-telephoto.

Panasonic cameras are great for video (I have 3) but the auto focus for video is pretty much useless. It has no problem focusing, but then it keeps verifying the focus by drifting in and out of focus - called hunting.

On the other hand, video pros rely on manual focus a lot of the time because they can't afford to allow a shot to be ruined by unreliable AF. Canon's "dual pixel auto focus" is the most reliable, but it's only available on their upper end cameras. (The Canon M50 has DPAF, but only when shooting in 1080p, not in 4k.) Sony's AF is pretty good, but some models are better than others.

What's nice about the G7 is the focus peaking feature. In manual focus mode, focus peaking puts a neon-blue "halo" around a subject when it's in focus, which makes manual focus easy. You can also use touch focus, and/or use the lock button on the back of the camera to tell the camera to focus on whatever's in the focus box, which you can move around. Check out Caleb Pike's G7 tutorial on Youtube. It's not free, but it gives you everything you need to know about the G7, and it touches on a few general video topics like lighting and conducting an interview.

The downside to the G7 is the file structure. It has a 4 gig limit, which means a long continuous video - say 20 minutes - might create 3 files, which you stack end to end in your video editor. The problem arises if you're using the G7's audio. At the break between files, the G7 will sometimes drop a frame, which means you may need to  do an audio crossfade at that break point, or if you're in a multi-camera shoot, or using an external audio recorder, you may have to check sync after every break to make sure it's not drifting. The G7 also has a 29 minute limit for continuous video shooting (meaning, you have to stop recording and then restart video recording to get past the 29 minute limit.) The G85 and GX85 do not have that limit.

If you're considering skipping the G7 and going to one of the 85s, you'll get IBIS (image stabilization) but the kit lens selection will likely be different. The G85 comes with a 12-60 lens. The GX85 comes with a 12-32 lens (with no focus ring) or the bundle with the 12-32 plus the 45-150, but the viewfinder on the GX85 is useless for left-eyed shooters.

If you could get the 14-140 lens with either of the 85s, or if you need extended recording times, that might be a good way to go. If not, the G7 with the 14-140 lens is an awesome package. Plus, the 14-140 lens has OIS - optical image stabilization - which is not as effective as IBIS, but better than nothing.

As others have said, no the G7 can't do that.  I'll go farther to say I do not know of any camera that can do that in camera.

Many people who shoot 4K video do it so that they can extract a lower res section of the movie with after-capture "panning".  Remarkably smooth panning, since it's software controlled.

I'm sure the same PC software that can do that can just downsample to 1080p.

On the limit of video recording length, I suppose is a matter of where you are. AFAIK, European version of GX85 and G85 also subject to the 30min requirement.

My GX85, although a non European version, is also subject to the 30 min rule.

alcelc wrote:

On the limit of video recording length, I suppose is a matter of where you are. AFAIK, European version of GX85 and G85 also subject to the 30min requirement.

My GX85, although a non European version, is also subject to the 30 min rule.

The USA models have no time limit for 4k but there may be a time limit for 1080p.

uncle dunc wrote:

Panasonic cameras are great for video (I have 3) but the auto focus for video is pretty much useless. It has no problem focusing, but then it keeps verifying the focus by drifting in and out of focus - called hunting.

It's actually quite easy to deal with this by disabling continuous AF (from the video menu). This way the camera only adjusts focus when shutter release button is half-pressed. This way the AF is also much faster than when continuous AF is on.

I really don't like "fully automatic AF". Even when shooting stills, I use single AF point and AF-S. This way I have the control, not the camera.

pannumon wrote:

uncle dunc wrote:

Panasonic cameras are great for video (I have 3) but the auto focus for video is pretty much useless. It has no problem focusing, but then it keeps verifying the focus by drifting in and out of focus - called hunting.

It's actually quite easy to deal with this by disabling continuous AF (from the video menu). This way the camera only adjusts focus when shutter release button is half-pressed. This way the AF is also much faster than when continuous AF is on.

I really don't like "fully automatic AF". Even when shooting stills, I use single AF point and AF-S. This way I have the control, not the camera.

I use a similar approach for video, in manual focus mode, but with the shutter release/focus function turned off. That way I can select my focus point by aiming the camera so that the focus box is on the area I want in focus, hit the lock button to focus (or use touch focus), re-aim the camera and then start video recording. If focus is triggered by shutter release, it's going to refocus when I start recording, and it may refocus on the wrong area - or, if it's a low light situation, it may lose focus because there's no contrasty element in the focus box.

I see a lot of folks complaining about Panasonic's continuous AF for video, which is why I mention it in these threads. Folks need to know that, for video, it's not going to be 100% reliable.

Ignore all the wrong information you've received in this thread, and instead look at your camera manual. I don't know about the G7, but both the G85 and GX85 can do what you ask - it's called 4K Live Cropping.

Mark9473 wrote:

Ignore all the wrong information you've received in this thread, and instead look at your camera manual. I don't know about the G7, but both the G85 and GX85 can do what you ask - it's called 4K Live Cropping.

I decided not to mentioned that (even though I'm aware of it) because the G7 doesn't have it (I checked that before I posted my original response).

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-g7_adv_en_om.pdf

And that feature only allows 20 or 40 seconds of footage, making its utility extremely limited in regular use anyways. In the general case, you will still have to downscale 4K footage out of camera.