[HELP] Oly E-PL7, Pany GX8, or something else for beginner

Hi,

Want to start practicing underwater photography, and need advice on which camera to use (buy housing, etc).

Already own Olympus E-PL7 and Panasonic GX8 with Olympus 45mm macro. Housing for GX8 is available from Nauticam only for ~$1600. EPL7 has housing for ~$700, plus $400 for 45mm port.

Not wanting to invest too much on equipment in the beginning, but also want something that would last.

Should I start with EPL7? GX8? Or get a GoPro to start practicing first?

Thanks in advance.

Hi rp200,

I have a unused original Olympus housing for EP-L5/6 here. I can send it to you, including handels for 125 Euro plus shipping.

You only need to look for a second hand EP-L5 or EP-L6 (essentially same camera as EP-L7)...

Wolfgang

The E-PL7 cannot be put into the Olympus PT-EP10 housing. There is a "problems" with Olympus housings: #1.: two types of standards, so the domeports and planports cannot be exchanged (in addition it seems to me that the Olympus E-PL7 housing is a third standard by its own).

Because of this upgrading to another camera model (what many people do every 5-10 years as technology improves) is expensive.

In addition the housings are: #1. plastic (light, what is positive, but prone to fogging of the front glass) and #2.: do not have vacuum leak detector and prone to flooding (actually my wife flooded her E-PL6 in September, so I cannot offer it along with the housing).

=> For the beginning a cheap second hand setup with plastic housing is probably very good (This is how my wife upgraded from compact to mft years ago). Olympus plastic housing plus camera body, you can get this probably for between 200-400$) - I would not buy anything new for this camera and spend 1000+ on a plastic housing for E-PL7...

=> Alternatively you can look for a second hand housing from e.g. Nauticam (I am more than satisfied with this brand, I recommend them) for GX8 (In case such a housing is available from Nauticam). I also purchased my Nauticam housings so far second hand (EM5II and EM1II, <50% from new price). In case you want to upgrade you keep all lenses, zoomgears and ports and just buy new camera and housing (I see you write that you want something durable, so this is probably the way)...

=> In case it is difficult to find second hand housings for your cameras, I would not invest a lot of money for special housings, but go for another camera (In Wetpixel announces, I saw recently a Olympus EM1-I plus Nauticam housing and 45o viewfinder for 1000$ (already the viewfinder costs this new) - I would have bought immediately, but no need at the moment).

I started two years ago with EM5-II as main camera both over and under water in (second hand) Nauticam and acquired several great lenses and domeports (see ma gearlist). The idea is that both my wife and me use Nauticam housing, so we can share these great lenses and ports and she does not need to buy separate domeports...

Wolfgang

rp200 wrote:

Hi,

Want to start practicing underwater photography, and need advice on which camera to use (buy housing, etc).

Before you decide on what to buy, I would do an honest self-assessment on what you are realistically going to do with your underwater equipment. I decided on the E-PL7 because I knew I would only be able to squeeze 1-2 dive vacations into a year, which meant that all the expensive housings would not make any sense if you consider that you will replace your camera probably after 3-4 years.

Furthermore, it is important to consider your proficiency of diving, a large and heavy housing with extra strobes and a dome port creates a lot of resistance underwater and can be a challenge to handle in strong currents up to the point where it get dangerous - don'y forget, underwater photography is significantly more challenging than above water!!!

Last but not least, you have to consider the type of underwater photography are are planning to do. The main two forms of underwater photography are wide angle and macro, which in most places (not all) will be decided on where you are diving (e.g. Lembeh Straits = Macro; Komodo National Park = mostly wide angle).

Already own Olympus E-PL7 and Panasonic GX8 with Olympus 45mm macro. Housing for GX8 is available from Nauticam only for ~$1600. EPL7 has housing for ~$700, plus $400 for 45mm port.

From these cameras I only own the E-PL7, therefore I will focus my comments on this one. The E-PL7, with the Oly housing (PT-EP12) being geared towards the 14-42 mm f3.5-5.6 EZ kit lens, is not particularly good in both underwater photography disciplines - wide and macro - and is rather a compromise. The only other lens fitting into the Oly housing (with the original port) that makes sense underwater would be the Oly 12mm f2.0, which is quite expensive and not a huge upgrade from the 14mm of the kit lens, non of the macro lenses fits (neither your Pana 45mm). While the Oly housing was originally marketed to be used only with the attached port, they have in the meantime upgraded the system chart (only in Asia) showing the possibility for attaching a wide angle and macro port, both however being rather expensive ( https://www.olympusimage.com.sg/content/000083913.pdf ).

Photography is all about the light and that is even more true for underwater photography since you are loosing colour with increased depth. Therefore, you will have to bring light with you in one form or another. Again, to keep the package small and manageable and to safe cost, I decide to stick with the flash that comes with the E-PL7. This is actually the major change in philosophy between the E-PL6 and E-PL7 housing. The E-PL7 housing was more designed like a point-and-shoot camera housing, meaning no extras attached and just using the lens it comes with, while the E-PL6 housing considers the possibility of using other lenses and ports more. However, if you, like me, like to safe some money, the E-PL7 is the better choice, since the original port is short and thin allowing the use of the internal flash for macro without shading (which is also true if you attach a macro diopter wet lens like the Inon UCL-165M67). The 14-42mm EZ kit lens it actually not a bad macro lens (but not comparable with a dedicated macro lens).

The port comes also with a built-in M67 thread to attach wet lenses, which cannot be overstated as an advantage (you will need it!!!). You can also attach wet wide angle lenses like the Inon UWL-H100 28M67 plus dome port (http://www.inon.jp/products/lens/lineup.html) to compensate for the weakness of the kit lens. However, they are heavy and would make the housing front heavy and you would need an extra strobe since they would cover the internal flash.

While doing your research on the E-PL7 housing you most likely have encountered the statement, that the power zoom kit lens can only be toggled between 14mm and 42mm and not in between, by setting one of the function keys to this option. However, that is NOT true. You can set two buttons of the 4-way-control button to continuously zoom in and out (as described in the oly manual). However, you would loose two of the buttons which is a bummer considering the little manual controls that the E-PL7 has. A better choice is to buy a third party zoom gear that uses the zoom control wheel of the housing that would be idle otherwise (https://deepshots.myshopify.com/collections/gears-for-olympus-and-panasonic/products/deepshots-olympus-12-42-ez-zoom-gear).

So, to summarise, the E-PL7 is not a bad point to start your journey into underwater photography. However, it is not particularly good in anything and growing with the system is very expensive as compared with buying another camera and using a Meikon housing (https://meikon.com.hk/) e.g. for Sony a6300, which would allow you to get cheap ports for wide and macro.

Not wanting to invest too much on equipment in the beginning, but also want something that would last.

The E-PL7 having been replaced already by the E-PL8 and E-PL9 as well as having a 16 MP sensor (yes, you will need to crop your macro pictures) and not having PDAF is definitely not an investment into the future, especially considering the high price of the ports.

Should I start with EPL7? GX8? Or get a GoPro to start practicing first?

I would also look into point-and-shoot cameras like the TG5 or a Canon G7x III with the Canon housing (no 67M thread though ). The 1" sensor cameras with their fast lenses are very good for underwater (especially very good for macro) and there are quite a few relatively cheap housing options. Investing in a strobe might help your photography more than in an expensive and large housing. If you do not plan to shoot RAW or want to keep post processing to a minimum, then I would gravitate towards a Canon camera, since they have the best white balance for ambient light underwater photography (you would still have to adjust, but Canon does by far the best job) - however, this not so important if you bring 2 massive strobes...

As a final word, my experience is, that shooting Pygmy Seahorses or Mantas with a TG5 will get you better results that shooting rusty bicycles in a local pond with a $20.000 DSLR setup - so - safe some money for traveling...

Thanks in advance.

Hope that helps a little...

Lars

Here some (random) pics taken with the E-PL7 & PT-EP12 (most macros with Inon UCL-165M67)

LarsPolarBear wrote:

rp200 wrote:

Hi,

Want to start practicing underwater photography, and need advice on which camera to use (buy housing, etc).

Before you decide on what to buy, I would do an honest self-assessment on what you are realistically going to do with your underwater equipment. I decided on the E-PL7 because I knew I would only be able to squeeze 1-2 dive vacations into a year, which meant that all the expensive housings would not make any sense if you consider that you will replace your camera probably after 3-4 years.

Agreed, except perhaps about the camera replacement part.

For a long time I debated buying a big expensive housing for my DSLRs.  I often found myself debating whether to put the backup (last model) DSLR underwater or the primary (current mode) under.  In one case I risked only the second-best camera I had.  In the other, I get the advantages of the newer model plus have a bit more time before obsolescence.

Then my wife came down with pancreatic cancer, and it changed my views on things.  I'm in my 60's, and I can't really wait any longer if I want to have a DSLR underwater.   I may never have had the chance if I waited longer.

So 3 years ago I bit the bullet and got a housing (Nauticam) for me then-best camera (Nikon D810).   My alternative at the time would have been a housing for my D800e.

I've now been diving with the D810 for 3 years, and I have 117 dives with it.   I've since added a D850, and while I would love to have a housing for it, I can't justify it with the D810 still going strong.  In retrospect, I'm glad I got a housing for the D810 and not the D800e.

Furthermore, it is important to consider your proficiency of diving, a large and heavy housing with extra strobes and a dome port creates a lot of resistance underwater and can be a challenge to handle in strong currents up to the point where it get dangerous - don'y forget, underwater photography is significantly more challenging than above water!!!

It's hugely more difficult and challenging.   I love it - the challenge is part of the fun.

I'd point out something I didn't know before my purchase arrived on my doorstep - a bit dome port is HUGE and it is a royal pain in the *ss to pack.

Last but not least, you have to consider the type of underwater photography are are planning to do. The main two forms of underwater photography are wide angle and macro, which in most places (not all) will be decided on where you are diving (e.g. Lembeh Straits = Macro; Komodo National Park = mostly wide angle).

And, depending on camera, you may only have wide and macro lens choices!   I would love a normal zoom on my D810, but there doesn't seem to be one that is offered/recommended.  i jump from a 16-35 behind a 230mm dome port to a 105 macro behind a flat port.

Due to how glass works underwater, there is no magnification factor with the dome port, but i get about a 20% magnification with the macro through the flat port.  Which is effectively jumping from 35mm to about 135mm with nothing in between.

Already own Olympus E-PL7 and Panasonic GX8 with Olympus 45mm macro. Housing for GX8 is available from Nauticam only for ~$1600. EPL7 has housing for ~$700, plus $400 for 45mm port.

Photography is all about the light and that is even more true for underwater photography since you are loosing colour with increased depth. Therefore, you will have to bring light with you in one form or another.

And learn how to work with the lighting you bring.

And the lighting is different between stills and video lighting.  And not unexpectedly, it's expensive.

Again, to keep the package small and manageable and to safe cost, I decide to stick with the flash that comes with the E-PL7. This is actually the major change in philosophy between the E-PL6 and E-PL7 housing. The E-PL7 housing was more designed like a point-and-shoot camera housing, meaning no extras attached and just using the lens it comes with, while the E-PL6 housing considers the possibility of using other lenses and ports more. However, if you, like me, like to safe some money, the E-PL7 is the better choice, since the original port is short and thin allowing the use of the internal flash for macro without shading (which is also true if you attach a macro diopter wet lens like the Inon UCL-165M67). The 14-42mm EZ kit lens it actually not a bad macro lens (but not comparable with a dedicated macro lens).

Hopefully the housing comes with a small diffuser to help more.

The port comes also with a built-in M67 thread to attach wet lenses, which cannot be overstated as an advantage (you will need it!!!). You can also attach wet wide angle lenses like the Inon UWL-H100 28M67 plus dome port (http://www.inon.jp/products/lens/lineup.html) to compensate for the weakness of the kit lens. However, they are heavy and would make the housing front heavy and you would need an extra strobe since they would cover the internal flash.

I've tried both macro and wide angle on my RX100 II rig, but I have to say I never got them to work.

Not wanting to invest too much on equipment in the beginning, but also want something that would last.

Too bad point-n-shoots have died.   Canon used to sell a number of affordable cameras with matching dive housings.  I've had SD630, SD870is, S95 and S120.  None of them leaked, all worked well, but the cameras all eventually died (above water, zoom mechanism failures).   Consider finding a used rig on Craigslist.   New these cameras all cost about $450-500 new, including both camera and housing.

You will need at least a spare battery or two when diving.   And don't even bother with a non-OEM battery as they have the lifespan of a gnat.

Should I start with EPL7? GX8? Or get a GoPro to start practicing first?

Gopro - decent for video, sucks for stills.

Lars

Here some (random) pics taken with the E-PL7 & PT-EP12 (most macros with Inon UCL-165M67)

Nice pics.