Panasonic GX series

I made a chart in attempt to make sense of the GX cameras.

Clearly Panasonic Lumix didn't plan this out ahead of time, but you can see some logic in it.

The first three cameras shared some commonalities, representing general growth (in size and otherwise), and even though they weren't too similar, they were higher end rangefinder bodies (compared to the GM and GF lines).

In 2016, the manufacturer became confused. It looks like they realized that the GX8 represented a whole new class of camera - a new high end, apparently - and they wanted to update the mid-range model. So they created a GX7 mark II. But the Japanese company decided to change its name for the foreign markets. It added a digit to the 8, which makes sense in a way: we've seen this style of demarcating price points: one digit for the high end, two digits for the mid-range, and three digits for the entry.

What remains a mystery is why Panasonic differentiates the European and American markets - GX80 vs GX85, the same camera. Perhaps it is because they are technically different internal systems, one video system focused on PAL, one on NTSC. That is my guess. Still, it is a marketing blunder. (As is the similarity in naming between the GX line and the G line, which are SLR-style versions, with some spec improvements. There are lots of other letters, Panasonic.)

Nonetheless, The GX80 makes some sense as a mid-range version of the GX8, but it confuses the naming convention established by its natural predecessor, the GX7. The Japanese name should probably be the international name as well.

The GX800/GX850 makes some sense as the entry-level rangefinder. The company dissolved its other rangefinder-style lines, GF and GM, though the Japanese name of this body reveals that it is the actual successor of the GF line. The brand apparently wanted to simplify all rangefinders into the GX line, which is fair enough. Again, we have the stupid decision of different names for different markets.

But at least as of 2017, there was a clear GX lineup: GX8, GX80, GX800 - high, medium, low. The quality and features reflect the different price points nicely. To take the viewfinder as an example of the different price points: the GX8 has one of the best viewfinders ever - OLED, large, tilting. Beloved by many and one of a kind. The GX80 has a basic, stationary viewfinder. The GX800 has no viewfinder at all. It makes sense. Ignoring the GF and GM lines, and ignoring the discontinued GX7, Panasonic seemed to have things sorted.

But then comes the GX9. It's the GX7 mark III in Japan, and its body size supports that name. It indeed appears to be the successor to the GX80/85. But they've named it as a successor to the GX8 as well. It actually does seem to combine the two cameras, both high-end *and* midrange.

In the GX7 lineage, it represents the most up-to-date in technology and ability. That's clear enough. In the GX7-8-9 scheme, it's trickier. It retains the tilting viewfinder, but it is not an OLED like the GX8. To be a high-end model, it should be, as many people complain about the interlacing of this LCD EVF. (For me it's fine.) The other major point against its high-end status is that it's not weather-sealed, whereas the GX8 is.

Others might criticize that it lacks a mic input, but as a street camera, this doesn't seem necessary. I can handle that they'd leave this off. Similarly the SD card slot could be on the side, and it could stand to have manual dials like the LX100. But these are more minor points, and I can appreciate that Panasonic keeps things "simple and compact" in these decisions.

In its favor, it improves upon the GX8 by losing the anti-alias filter, adding Bluetooth connectivity, improving on stabilization, and being small, which I consider a luxury. I think it's actually a better camera than the GX8, but price and reputation suggest otherwise, which is why I've put it lower in my diagram. With just a few more features, it would be higher.

In the end, the GX9 should have included an OLED EVF and weather-sealing, or be called the GX90/95. But overall, I think it represents a natural current end-point in the GX series, essentially having the best of everything that a street/travel camera should have. Panasonic should simply resolve: the GX is our premium street camera that also shoots great B-roll footage. Let's add all the tech necessary to compete in this market.

It will be interesting where the GX line goes from here. I hypothesize a proper high-end successor to the GX8, but perhaps in the GX7 body again: a GX7 mark IV aka GX10, which simply improves the specs of the GX9. Just make EVF an OLED, add environmental sealing and add the mic jack, and I think almost all Lumix street/travel photogs would be happy. (Except those who prefer the overrated articulating screen

Wow you sure are passionate about it! I certainly feel your wrath.

Keithpictures wrote:

What remains a mystery is why Panasonic differentiates the European and American markets - GX80 vs GX85, the same camera. Perhaps it is because they are technically different internal systems, one video system focused on PAL, one on NTSC. That is my guess. Still, it is a marketing blunder. (As is the similarity in naming between the GX line and the G line, which are SLR-style versions, with some spec improvements. There are lots of other letters, Panasonic.)

There is really no technical reason for this. They are neither PAL nor NTSC. It is simply the frame rate which is different. There are many devices, TVs in particular, which are happy with either 25 or 30 fps, and cameras could also handle both - I doubt there is any physical difference between them. It has more to do with marketing and sales - keeping products from being sold in other markets.

Chris666666 wrote:

Keithpictures wrote:

What remains a mystery is why Panasonic differentiates the European and American markets - GX80 vs GX85, the same camera. Perhaps it is because they are technically different internal systems, one video system focused on PAL, one on NTSC. That is my guess. Still, it is a marketing blunder. (As is the similarity in naming between the GX line and the G line, which are SLR-style versions, with some spec improvements. There are lots of other letters, Panasonic.)

There is really no technical reason for this. They are neither PAL nor NTSC. It is simply the frame rate which is different. There are many devices, TVs in particular, which are happy with either 25 or 30 fps, and cameras could also handle both - I doubt there is any physical difference between them. It has more to do with marketing and sales - keeping products from being sold in other markets.

They aren't switchable between the two. The frame rates still matter because using the wrong one can result in flickering in the respective territories.

The other difference is Europe has an extra tariff on cameras that can record longer than 30 minutes. USA does not. Making two products ensures the US model is not crippled by a European tariff. The G9 was disappointing in this regard since it is also limited in the US market.

Wow those names are pretty bad...!

A few months ago Panasonic had an official presentation (sorry can't find it) which had clearly defined the relationship among models of its products.

GX8 is in a class of its own. No successor was on the road map at that time.

GX1, succeeded by GX7, then succeeded by GX85 (a.k.a. GX7 II in Japan), then succeeded by GX9 (a.k.a. GX7 III in Japan).

IMHO I suspected that the GX1 indeed might be a successor to the GF1 and GF2 when GF3 be made as an entry model.

GX850 in fact is called GF9 in Japan, same for some Asian Countries. In Hong Kong, when GX85 called GX85 instead of GX7 II, GX850 is officially called GF9 in line with Japan. It is succeeded by GF10.

Pany had some confused naming problem during the GX85 period of time (G85/80 indeed called G8 in Japan) and I suppose this confusion should have been settled down nowadays. Basically there are only 2 GXs, GX8 is a line of single model premium class which will likely be discontinued, and the GX1/GX7/GX85/GX9 as an upper entry ~ mid range class in RF design.

There had been a lot of disappointment on the discontinuance of tiny GM line. In deed another day when I saw a GF10 in shop (never pay attention to it before), it actually looked very similar to the size of GM5 (107mm x 65mm x 33mm of GF10 vs 99mm x 60mm x 36mm). According to the spec, roughly both cameras use EFCS upto1/500" and switches into e-shutter all the way up... (sorry not know their exact spec well). I thought Pany might use the 4K capable GF9 and now GF10 to cover the GM line to simplify its line of product(?).

Regarding the potential moire from removal of AA filter, I can say it is only a theoretical thinking. The jpg engine of Pany is so good that its no AA filter models rarely exhibit moire. I used GX85 since it was launched, no moire so far.

Osa25 wrote:

Keithpictures wrote:

Wow those names are pretty bad...!

Yes, this is why I laugh when people claim Panasonic is good at marketing. No they're not.

I have never heard anyone saying that. Personally I think Panasonic market division is copying their model naming from Canon, because.... well.. Canon sells well.... *Facepalm*

JakeJY wrote:

Chris666666 wrote:

Keithpictures wrote:

What remains a mystery is why Panasonic differentiates the European and American markets - GX80 vs GX85, the same camera. Perhaps it is because they are technically different internal systems, one video system focused on PAL, one on NTSC. That is my guess. Still, it is a marketing blunder. (As is the similarity in naming between the GX line and the G line, which are SLR-style versions, with some spec improvements. There are lots of other letters, Panasonic.)

There is really no technical reason for this. They are neither PAL nor NTSC. It is simply the frame rate which is different. There are many devices, TVs in particular, which are happy with either 25 or 30 fps, and cameras could also handle both - I doubt there is any physical difference between them. It has more to do with marketing and sales - keeping products from being sold in other markets.

They aren't switchable between the two. The frame rates still matter because using the wrong one can result in flickering in the respective territories.

The other difference is Europe has an extra tariff on cameras that can record longer than 30 minutes. USA does not. Making two products ensures the US model is not crippled by a European tariff. The G9 was disappointing in this regard since it is also limited in the US market.

In EU, it can also be problematic to sell a product that has 29min59s video recording limit (for EU copy-right tax reasons), if that limit can be disabled by entering service mode or by using a custom firmware hack. It's much simpler to call it a different product. Otherwise, it would be like selling a bottle of vodka bundled with a bottle of water and claiming that the product only contains 4% of alcohol (yeah, in most countries this is would not make the difference in the first place...).

Gato Amarillo wrote:

That actually does make some sort of sense of it.

I do not know if they just cannot commit, or they are searching for a market, or what. But it sure is confusing. I have owned a number of Panasonic cameras since the original G1. My GX-1 and GX-8 are by far my favorites for shape and handling, but except for the flat top I have no idea why they are part of the same series. And have no clear idea where the series is going or what will be the successor to my GX-8.

I just hope the next number brings back the fully-articulated LCD.

Gato

Actually compared to others (like the Canon examples) Panasonic's scheme is fairly easy to understand.

GM (discontinued) = premium compact rangefinder style

GF = entry compact rangefinder style

GX = mid/high rangefinder style

G = SLR style

GH = Video focused SLR style

During the GX85 era, in the US/European markets they tried to use a numbering scheme to denote the levels (killing off the GF designation, leaving only GX, G, and GH to denote body style).

GX850 (3 digit) = entry rangefinder

GX85 = mid rangefinder

GX8 = flagship rangefinder

G85 = mid SLR style

G9 = flagship SLR style

The somewhat confusing GX9 designation follows from this. It's a signal Panasonic does not want to make a true successor to the GX8 (perhaps disappointed in sales results). Instead the GX85 stays around as an entry/mid rangefinder, and the GX9 serves as mid/high rangefinder. The large GX8 is dead as a line (otherwise Panasonic would have named GX9 as GX95 instead).

Basically very nice picture!

alcelc wrote:

IMHO I suspected that the GX1 indeed might be a successor to the GF1 and GF2 when GF3 be made as an entry model.

I was missing GF1 from the picture, too. GF2 started a whole new line. Already then people were upset by the naming scheme.

GX1 was like GX9. A LONG waited "upgrade" (for GF1 and GX8, respectively), that some people liked, but most people really did not (as an upgrade). It was GX7 that finally hit the jackpot.

Panasonic should make a "GF1 mk II" and only make it available as a Leica camera (this would be better than nothing). I am sure it would sell well. That 600€/$ external viewfinder (with "Leica" optics) would also sell.

...sorta...within its context in the timeline...

GF1...intended as an entry level camera but surprisingly became a hit as an enthusiast camera...but Panasonic still wanted an entry level camera, so came the GF2 which disappointed all enthusiasts who loved the GF1.  Note: GF line still continued and is still going on in Japan.

GX1...a new line and first real update to the original GF1. And when it came out, with the new 16mp sensor, the best MFT camera in its price range... for the next couple of weeks (or was that a month or two? I can't remember) when out of nowhere the Oly E-M5 came out and just like that the world forgot the GX1 existed, and that new line (GX) was forgotten and by default died.

Quite a bit of time later, Panasonic tried to revive the GX line and the GX7 came out. Was a sleeper hit for Panasonic.

At this time, Panasonic decided to simplify and consolidate all their lines of rangefinder styled camera bodies.

First was the GX8, their top end semi-pro stills camera.

GX85 (a bit later) came out as their mid-level camera. This was the true successor to the GX7.

GX850 (also a bit later) came out as their entry-level camera. Now, the GX850 was also called GF9 in Japan since the GF line was an actual best selling camera in Japan. They simply did not want to mess with that winning formula. But everywhere else in the world the GF line was not doing nearly as well so GX850 (or GX800) made sense to them.

Now by this time, we can all say, okay, that sounds good. The GX lines make sense. Unfortunately, the GX8 was a dud. And it's not really its fault either. First, everyone and their pet rocks were screaming from the top of their lungs that it was a monstrous behemoth that would crush anyone who would dare to hold it. Even Oly fans...even though the E-M1 line had not even remotely the same amount of angst about its size. But even worse than it's size was its shutter shock. Yes, other cameras by a multitude of other manufacturers had this too but it was the GX8 that took the problem into the limelight and made the GX8 the poster boy for shutter shock and made everyone notice. The screaming about shutter shock with the GX8 was so bad there were people who thought it simply could not take proper photos in the problematic shutter range. It just wasn't a usable tool for stills. The reality is that, on the whole, most people simply did not have problems with shutter shock in the real world except for rare specific situations but the damage was done. The GX8 was a lame duck and was avoided like the plague.

This caused a problem with Panasonic as they now have the GXx top line that was a disaster from the beginning and so, seemingly the GX8 was never to get an upgrade. The new naming system was pretty much dead.

Hence, today, the GX9 came out as the GX85 upgrade or the continuation of the GX7 line.

The GF10, the upgrade to the GX850 line, or the continuation of the original GF line.

And here we are. The GXx, GXxx, and GXxxx naming convention are now seemingly dead. And back to GXx and GFx naming convention with no updates to the GX8 line.

Convoluted sure but as tid bits, understandable.