Where the heck is Olympus? 3 cameras in 2+ years?

TomFid wrote:

Skeeterbytes wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

WT21 wrote:

...

What is Olympus doing?? Are these DPR counts correct? I know there's a new one coming in January, with a couple of lenses, but WTH?

This is what is happening in a nutshell. Olympus was betting on a really expensive sports camera, the $2000 E-M1 II, and on those expensive f/1.2 lenses to get itself out of its problems. To do so, it apparently had to use all its limited R&D resources on this expensive model, and thus neglected the other models. Olympus said it chose to be bold. That plan didn't work, although Olympus had one profitable quarter after releasing the E-M1 II. Then Sony released its A9 for sports. Sony also released the nice FF A7 III at the same price as the E-M1 II. They are followed by FF MILCs by Canikon and a couple of Fuji ASPC cameras. Olympus was clearly heading the wrong way with the high-price (but using a small sensor) strategy. Panasonic saw the light and is going FF as a way of going upmarket. Olympus is however still unrepentant and doubled down with an even more expensive, larger and more niche E-M1X, while we wait for any news of the long overdue E-M5 III. The E-M1X's rumoured price is higher than that of the A7r III. Getting really bold, that's what Olympus is doing.

Bingo. The EM1ii is a super-capable fast/light wildlife camera, for which m43 is ideal, but they have only 2 or 3 lenses in the entire portfolio that are suited for the purpose. Then they release a bunch of big expensive street/portrait primes, to compete head to head with FF in the one area where m43 has the least competitive advantage. Meanwhile the low end is a rehash and the middle is AWOL. Makes no sense to me.

Maybe it's just how you perceive the camera being used. As a do-all camera I've not used a better model than the E-M1ii. Can a camera be "too fast" for portraiture or landscape or events or architecture? It cannot. Are there lenses one would not wish to use on it? Not as far as I know. And, it's the best platform of the entire system for adapting AF lenses.

Cheers,

Rick

I completely agree with you that the EM1ii is a fabulous tool (a bit big for my taste, but still widely attractive, I think). I just think they failed to achieve synergy in a major niche - I bet at least half the EM1 wildlife shooters are using the PL 100-400 instead of the 300 Pro.

Only because:  1.  The 300mm is very expensive (though excellent), and because some people realize how increasingly difficult it is to properly use a long lens with each 100mm you add to it.

Tommi K1 wrote:

JaKing wrote:

However, I stand by my comment that different cultures approach these things differently. An example: no Australian company would have bailed out Olympus the way Sony did.

You do know that Sony owned 5% of the stock, and one point purchased 5% more, in total 10%. And then sold 5% in big profit, leaving only 5%?

That is in your opinion "bailing out" a company that didn't need that little?

The way I see it......

The brief 10% ownership was a signal of confidence to the market.

The true outcome was the Sony+Olympus medical products alliance with Sony having 51%.

The facts were that Sony saw an opportunity to get into the very profitable medical products business in a big way with little spending involved.

Regards..... Guy

Adielle wrote:

Continuous, long-term pessimism is a way to pass time, ultimately.

My job carrying a big sign saying "The end is nigh" is safe for many years.

Regards.... Guy

Adrian Harris wrote:

WT21 wrote:

I was thinking about adding a compact camera to complement my Panasonic G85. I decided to look at Olympus, and I was shocked to see only 3 models since Sept 2016, and one is a Tough compact camera! (another was the E-PL9, which is a reskin of the EPL8 which was a reskin of the EPL7 AFAIK)

https://www.dpreview.com/products/olympus/cameras?subcategoryId=cameras&page=1

Panasonic has had 11 in that time, Fuji 12, Sony 9, Canon 15 and Nikon 18 (that includes DSLR, Mirrorless and compacts, for all makers). Heck even Pentax/Ricoh has had 5 in that time. Leica has had 8.

So, I checked lenses. In 2017/18

• Oly: 2
• Panny: 8
• Sony: 9
• Fuji: 16
• Leica: 6(!)

I just can't bare to look anymore.

What is Olympus doing?? Are these DPR counts correct? I know there's a new one coming in January, with a couple of lenses, but WTH?

Fortunately I don't wear my camera's out that quickly. So no need to panic

I am also not in a state of panic because Panasonic has not updated its GM line for some time and based on remarks made are not about to do so.

Somehow I will manage even if I never buy another camera body.  The cameras still delight as much as they ever did when I bought them.

Think of all this remarkable foresight by camera body manufacturers who are obviously doing their very best to slow down our excessive spending culture

Except of course the gang of six who are in the process of asking the camera buying public for a huge income boost to justify their risky investments in four new camera mount systems - well Sony’s is still “newish” ....

The consumer part of the industry is, of course, quite laid back about all this and is settling back to carefully pick and choose which team to follow (or not follow any at all) and quite innocent of concern for the clash of the titans that is in the process of unfolding.  With all this demand on camera consumer budgets it would be remarkable if they all succeeded in bringing fully fleshed out new systems - right at the time when the turnover in camera bodies has passed its peak.

Meanwhile everything not FF can hunker down and wait for the new fashion and wave of consumer dollars to subside into the great calm ocean of sanity. Surely Olympus might have a point there.

Th big issue fro M4/3 of course is that if Panasonic had cut back their new camera body releases to the same level as Olympus then the wail of “M4/3 is doomed” would have been unstoppable.  Olympus can thank Panasonic for this support and it might be the reason for the recent Panasonic execs remark that they were not over happy with Olympus commitment to M4/3.

Anyway - three new Olympus bodies next year is encouraging.  But we also must agree that finding new tricks to put into camera bodies must be getting harder.  The majors seem to think FF ML might be a way to suck even more money out of consumer’s pockets as the industry meets a slow down (extended ownership) of camera body sales.

Another way of course is to flesh out an already well established system with some incredibly good lenses - this is happening despite comments about them being “unaffordable”.

So we have contradictory issues - cheap, affordable and average - or well supplied over a wide spectrum so that there is gear avaiable for all pockets and needs.

By all accounts the E-M1ii is an immensely capable camera so one might wonder what can be done as the great act to follow it.

WT21 wrote:

Apologies for the thread. It was late, and something I probably shouldn't have written.

Hey, no apologies needed, it just drew out the usual suspects into the open and allowed some possibly partially honest discussion - all that without anyone knowing any real facts, as usual.

It was an honest reaction while researching cameras, but then again, you don't tell your brother's wife that she's gained a few. It might be honest, but it's not helpful.

I've actually been pretty intrigued by some of the conversation here, and some good reasons to have hope for 2019. We'll see in a few short months.

I also read some seriously paranoid postings. Some bordering delusional. I won't point then out, but -- wow.

FWIW (not much) I ordered a GX850, as a very well priced one came across my radar.

I would love to see from Oly:

• EPL10

Yes, but go back to the menus and capabilities of the E-PL1 through E-PL8 as the -9 is a fail as far as I'm concerned. I see my E-P5 as the first Oly truly fit for my purposes and cannot see me changing any time soon.

• 20MP sensor with no AA filter

Stretch that to 24MP and the consumers may take notice.

• Address the SS issue

In my E-P5 the 0 sec anti-shock has fixed that, but adding the option of fully electronic shutter is the real fix. The EFCS no first curtain run is a good alternative. As long as it is a fast acting sensor with at worst about 1/60 sec unload time.

Meanwhile, the GX850 will have to do for now (no-AA filter, no shutter shock, but no IBIS, only 16MP and top mechanical shutter speed of 1/500).

I wonder if IBIS and shutter shock are related when you are dealing with such small, lightweight bodies?

Shutter shock is too fast for any IBIS, the only way to really fix it is to get rid of that awful focal plane shutter. Global shutter, anyone?

Regards..... Guy

TomFid wrote:

I completely agree with you that the EM1ii is a fabulous tool (a bit big for my taste, but still widely attractive, I think). I just think they failed to achieve synergy in a major niche - I bet at least half the EM1 wildlife shooters are using the PL 100-400 instead of the 300 Pro.

I get it, it's a very personal preference. My favorite E-series is the E-30, which hits a sweet spot for me between the E-510 and E-5. Size, shape, layout, feature set--perfect. No idea whether they sold many and the system died before we saw a followup model. (It must also be said, not the most handsome camera at the camera prom. The Pen F gets all the girls. )

Cheers,

Rick

Sony did sell off a big chunk of that stake a few years ago FWIW.

Cheers,

Rick

Hmm... makes you think maybe olympus are having doubts about the longevity of the M4/3 system. Size and weight has always been its sales pitch but in the end if it doesnt turn it into dollars then maybe a change back to the more traditional design could be needed.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Sony did sell off a big chunk of that stake a few years ago FWIW.

Cheers,

Rick

Yes, their large shareholding (around 10% as the largest single shareholder at the time) was sold down to 5% at a handsome profit a bit later.

But the fact remains that the 51% Sony controlled sony-olympus-medical.com does exist now.

Regards....... Guy

From my perspective I am a micro four thirds user, my lenses fit any micro four thirds Mount.

Sooooooooo..... I would add up all the bodies and lenses produced by all manufacturers for the Mount.

Or mount is the only Mount that can make that claim. Off the top of my head

Olympus

Panasonic

Black magic

Xaiomi

Z cam

DJI

JVC

Kodak

Lenses from even more makers.

Can any Mount claim they have this much variety, they may not all be active, or gems like the em1mark.2... but recently we have had some real innovation from:

Olympus em1.2 (stills and sports)

Panasonic gh5 and GH5s

Black magic pocket cinema cam

DJI inspire 2

Z cam e2

What a list, and my lenses work for ALL of them

WT21 wrote:

I was thinking about adding a compact camera to complement my Panasonic G85. I decided to look at Olympus, and I was shocked to see only 3 models since Sept 2016, and one is a Tough compact camera! (another was the E-PL9, which is a reskin of the EPL8 which was a reskin of the EPL7 AFAIK)

https://www.dpreview.com/products/olympus/cameras?subcategoryId=cameras&page=1

Panasonic has had 11 in that time, Fuji 12, Sony 9, Canon 15 and Nikon 18 (that includes DSLR, Mirrorless and compacts, for all makers). Heck even Pentax/Ricoh has had 5 in that time. Leica has had 8.

So, I checked lenses. In 2017/18

• Oly: 2
• Panny: 8
• Sony: 9
• Fuji: 16
• Leica: 6(!)

I just can't bare to look anymore.

What is Olympus doing?? Are these DPR counts correct? I know there's a new one coming in January, with a couple of lenses, but WTH?

I was saying very similar things about Olympus 4/3 as early as Spring, 2008. It was clear then that 4/3 was in trouble. I was correct. The E-5 and 12-60mm in 2010 were a last gasp.

The new normal may be fewer introductions over a longer period of time. Unfortunately, that seems to be closer to a Samsung new normal than any other manufacturer.

Offering up a new $3000 USD body is almost the same as Olympus doing nothing for 99% of us and 99% of prospective new buyers.

Jim Pilcher
Bonita Springs, Florida, USA
aligators and mimosas

James Pilcher wrote:

WT21 wrote:

I was thinking about adding a compact camera to complement my Panasonic G85. I decided to look at Olympus, and I was shocked to see only 3 models since Sept 2016, and one is a Tough compact camera! (another was the E-PL9, which is a reskin of the EPL8 which was a reskin of the EPL7 AFAIK)

https://www.dpreview.com/products/olympus/cameras?subcategoryId=cameras&page=1

Panasonic has had 11 in that time, Fuji 12, Sony 9, Canon 15 and Nikon 18 (that includes DSLR, Mirrorless and compacts, for all makers). Heck even Pentax/Ricoh has had 5 in that time. Leica has had 8.

So, I checked lenses. In 2017/18

• Oly: 2
• Panny: 8
• Sony: 9
• Fuji: 16
• Leica: 6(!)

I just can't bare to look anymore.

What is Olympus doing?? Are these DPR counts correct? I know there's a new one coming in January, with a couple of lenses, but WTH?

I was saying very similar things about Olympus 4/3 as early as Spring, 2008. It was clear then that 4/3 was in trouble. I was correct. The E-5 and 12-60mm in 2010 were a last gasp.

The new normal may be fewer introductions over a longer period of time. Unfortunately, that seems to be closer to a Samsung new normal than any other manufacturer.

Offering up a new $3000 USD body is almost the same as Olympus doing nothing for 99% of us and 99% of prospective new buyers.

Jim Pilcher
Bonita Springs, Florida, USA
aligators and mimosas

I might write an op on this but this is, this delay from Olympus is really just this year, last year we got the em1.2, and em10.3 both of them added features, including a newly designed interface for entry level users.

The two most important bodies, the em5.3 and the em1.3 for profitability couldn't be launched in the shadow of Nikon and Canon releasing FF mirrorless cameras, or Panasonic doing the same.

So it makes good marketing sense to save some money this year and make a big song and a dance next year on their 100 anniversary.

During this period the em1.2 had dropped within spitting distance to the em5.2 launch price and has everything people have asked for.

And in all honesty is doesn't feel much bigger than the em5.2 with grip, but I believe is lighter...