Umbrellas For Group Portraits

[Swift One]

I have been researching the use of umbrellas and speedlights for group portraits (15-20 people). Specifically for weddings. I am trying to put together a "quick to set up" but efficient system.

It would seem that there are two thoughts on this.

1. Two 43-45" umbrellas with one speed light per umbrella. An umbrella is set up on each side of the camera.

2. One 60" umbrella with 2-3 speedlights on a multiple flash bracket with the umbrella set up along the same plane as the lens, but high over head.

It seems 50/50 with the research I have done as to weather you want to shoot through the umbrella(s) or bounce from a silver lines umbrella(s).

One large umbrella wold most def be more manageable to me with sandbagging and/ or an assistant holding the stand. But, i am not against two umbrellas if that is going to be the better option. I have 3 Godox 860s and also a multiple flash bracket, so I do have components for both set ups.

I also really cannot decide if I wanna bounce or shoot through- which obviously is going to effect my purchase. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[zevtambor]

One large umbrella wold most def be more manageable to me with sandbagging and/ or an assistant holding the stand. But, i am not against two umbrellas if that is going to be the better option. I have 3 Godox 860s and also a multiple flash bracket, so I do have components for both set ups.

For large groups, you likely need two umbrellas.

I also really cannot decide if I wanna bounce or shoot through- which obviously is going to effect my purchase. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.through

Using speedlights? Get the silver umbrellas. You will need the extra reflective power lo light large groups.

Then, get a shoot through if you want to play with softer light maybe for individuals or couples.

 

[Swift One]

One large umbrella wold most def be more manageable to me with sandbagging and/ or an assistant holding the stand. But, i am not against two umbrellas if that is going to be the better option. I have 3 Godox 860s and also a multiple flash bracket, so I do have components for both set ups.

For large groups, you likely need two umbrellas.

I also really cannot decide if I wanna bounce or shoot through- which obviously is going to effect my purchase. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.through

Using speedlights? Get the silver umbrellas. You will need the extra reflective power lo light large groups.

Then, get a shoot through if you want to play with softer light maybe for individuals or couples.

Thanks for the response. Would you recommend two 45" silvers or should I go bigger?

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

I have been researching the use of umbrellas and speedlights for group portraits (15-20 people). Specifically for weddings. I am trying to put together a "quick to set up" but efficient system.

* * *

2. One 60" umbrella with 2-3 speedlights on a multiple flash bracket with the umbrella set up along the same plane as the lens, but high over head.

One umbrella seems very unlikely to provide both even lighting and appreciable softening to a group of 15-20 people or even a couple. I also question whether it could provide enough light, especially with a shoe-mount flash or even a few of them. If you put it close enough to provide softer light and enough of it, then falloff / uneven lighting toward the edges will be a problem. If you move it back enough to light evenly, then getting enough light with be a problem and it won't be very soft.

Also, putting 2 or 3 shoe-mount flashes on a multiple flash bracket seems like the antithesis of quick to set up / efficient / simple / easy. One of the small to mid-size battery-powered monolights (like a Godox AD200, AD400, or AD600) seems like a much better choice.

Realistically, to do a good job, I think you will need two or three battery-powered monolights. Especially with built-in radio triggering, such a set ought to be reasonably quick to set up and efficient.

 

[photolando]

One is fine for a group at a wedding. Maybe two speed lights but one umbrella will more than suffice. We're only talking 15-20 people.

PLus, at weddings, it's about speed. You don't want to be hauling a lot of equipment or spending too much time setting it up and taking it down.

 

[zevtambor]

One large umbrella wold most def be more manageable to me with sandbagging and/ or an assistant holding the stand. But, i am not against two umbrellas if that is going to be the better option. I have 3 Godox 860s and also a multiple flash bracket, so I do have components for both set ups.

For large groups, you likely need two umbrellas.

I also really cannot decide if I wanna bounce or shoot through- which obviously is going to effect my purchase. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.through

Using speedlights? Get the silver umbrellas. You will need the extra reflective power lo light large groups.

Then, get a shoot through if you want to play with softer light maybe for individuals or couples.

Thanks for the response. Would you recommend two 45" silvers or should I go bigger?

Bigger is softer and generally nicer, but! you have to calculate in your mind if it is worth the required extra sandbags of large modifiers. Only you can know that, but my choice in your situation would be two of these:

Amazon.com : Profoto Deep Silver Umbrella (Large, 51") : Photographic Lighting Umbrellas : Electronics

Amazon.com : Profoto Deep Silver Umbrella (Large, 51") : Photographic Lighting Umbrellas : Electronics

www.amazon.com

Too expensive? maybe. then try a similar westcott version.

 

[BAK]

You seem to think there are correct ways to take pictures. You can use many ways.

If you use a big umbrella above the camera, and the people are standing up, the umbrella may hit the ceiling.

You may organize the people so they are at different distances from the camera, so the lights will need to be different distances.

One row of 20 is different from four rows of five.

BAK

 

[Swift One]

BAK,

Yes, there is most certainly more than one way to skin a cat. And I am thinking that maybe that is what I am finding with the research that I have done on this so far. I guess I am just trying to decide which route I want to take that will be the best for me. I didn't take into consideration lower ceilings at a venue where a large umbrella maybe be an issue with standing subjects. Thanks for pointing that out.

Photolando and zevtambor,

Absolutely I am thinking about speed and efficiency. I know bigger is softer and if I went 50-60", one umbrella with 2 flashes would be much easier to manage. I do currently have two 45" white convertible umbrellas that I have experience with. But silver is in my future with this set up I believe. I see that a deep umbrella was suggested over a regular one. my though process was that a regular one would disperse more light when bounced and would be of better use. I was under the impression that a deep umbrella had a more focused reflection of light. A deep umbrella would be more beneficial in this scenario?

 

[Sailor Blue]

There are two needs.

1. Portability. Two collapsible 43" umbrellas win hands down over non-collapsible large (e.g. 60") umbrellas or softboxes.

White umbrellas with a black backing used in reflection mode are best indoors since the backing minimizes stray light. Outdoors shoot through is fine. Silver umbrellas are not all that much more efficient than white ones and produce more specular light so I don't recommend them for uses like this.

2. Light spread. Two umbrellas, one on each side of the camera, win over a single large umbrella. If you use a large umbrella elevate it so about 1/3 is below your head and just stand in front of it.

If the group is compact butt the two 43" umbrellas up against each other with the centers of the umbrellas above the camera so that the camera pokes through the upside down "V" formed by the two umbrellas.

If the group is wider then move the umbrellas apart so that they are about 1/3 of the way in from each end of the group. Aim the umbrellas about 1/3 of the way in from the opposite side. This evens out the lighting from side to side of the group.

Aiming the umbrellas at the back row means less light from the umbrella on the front row to counteract the inverse square law and even out the lighting from front to back.

You want to stack 20 people into 3-4 rows if possible. Generally you increase the number in each row from front to back but alternating the head positions for each row as shown below is more important. To make the rows shorter have each side of the rows face their body inward about 45° toward the middle of the row while turning their heads to the camera. Use smaller subjects in front and larger ones behind so the smaller bodies hide the larger bodies - they will appreciate this even if they don't say anything.




Examples by Clay Blackmore of group arrangements.



Do whatever is necessary to make the three rows different heights so nobody's face is hidden by the person in front and the person in front can't throw a shadow on the face of the person behind.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

 

[cpharm86]

I used two 60" shoot thru umbrellas and 2 Profoto B1's for this shot. It was right before dusk. It was a fairly tight area to shoot in.

Umbrellas were placed about 1/4-1/3 in from each side.

 

[Ellis Vener]

With all of that set up I suggest you simplify considerably an get the Godox AD 600 / Adorama Flashpoint eVOLV 200 to supplement or replace the three speedlights. You’ll save time while setting up and striking, and lower the weight on top of the stand.

As to which umbrella, I prefer the 48” Photek Softlighter II. It is a white fabric skinned umbrella that can be used as as reflective umbrella (bowl facing forward) or as a light-through umbrella (back of bowl facing subject.) along with the umbrella itself comes a removable black cover for the backside, and also silver and gold insets.

re : light-through vs reflective set up. I use my Softlighter both ways. When the subject is at a distance as a reflective umbrella and when I want the light to be close to subject for softer dredged light wrap around, like for a single or double portrait, as a light-through modifier. I justify my way of working based on my experience as a working photographer.

 

[Swift One]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am currently in possession of two Impact 45” convertible umbrellas. Based on what sailor blue said, I think I’m gonna do some experimentation with them and see what I come up with. I also have some diffusion panels for them, and I have used those with great success in portrait work before I got my rapidbox. The 45s May be a bit easier in the wind as well as dealing with ceiling clearances inside.

 

[FJ Westcott]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am currently in possession of two Impact 45” convertible umbrellas. Based on what sailor blue said, I think I’m gonna do some experimentation with them and see what I come up with. I also have some diffusion panels for them, and I have used those with great success in portrait work before I got my rapidbox. The 45s May be a bit easier in the wind as well as dealing with ceiling clearances inside.

I think you may get what you want from your current set up. You might want to avoid the deep Silver umbrellas as they are good at efficiently sending the light toward a group but also a lot less forgiving. Placement of the Deep Silvers can produce uneven lighting even when placed on axis as the light spread is less than a traditional umbrella. Westcott's deep silver is slightly textured and softer than most deep silver umbrellas. This provides a little more forgiveness, at the expense of efficiency, and a unique look for individual and small groupings but would not be my choice for standard groups. Another option might be replacing standard umbrellas with something like two Halos which will combine the look of your shoot through with the efficiency added by the silver surface on the back side. The curved front insures an even spread of light at a wide beam angle.

Pete@Westcott