Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

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Mackiesback
Mackiesback Senior Member • Posts: 6,058
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

tbcass wrote:

Jonathan Brady wrote:

When I say "draft" I mean that I write it out, then go back and proofread and make minor changes in order to (hopefully) avoid a stream-of-consciousness type of appearance.

No need to defend yourself. Proofreading before posting is smart. If I didn’t there would too many spelling errors. His making fun of you was uncalled for.

We're good. Don't worry about it.

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lilBuddha Veteran Member • Posts: 4,203
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

confused circle wrote:

Hmm, looks like Sony ff has 16% of milc sales. That's well ahead of Nikon (no apsc milc), but definitely behind Canon (top apsc milc and quick start with the R for ff milc) I wonder if Nikon will release an apsc milc model.

The Canon EOSM system does not do well because it is APS-C. It does well because it is small and still has a large sensor. Nikon tried that and failed.

And as no one here wanted to accept, apsc still dominates. Half of all money brought in with average unit prices at like a quarter of full frame. The unit volume difference is monstrous.

Because APS-C is cheaper. And more than good enough for the vast majority of users, including many professionals.

Abel89er Regular Member • Posts: 180
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

lilBuddha wrote:

confused circle wrote:

Hmm, looks like Sony ff has 16% of milc sales. That's well ahead of Nikon (no apsc milc), but definitely behind Canon (top apsc milc and quick start with the R for ff milc) I wonder if Nikon will release an apsc milc model.

The Canon EOSM system does not do well because it is APS-C. It does well because it is small and still has a large sensor. Nikon tried that and failed.

And as no one here wanted to accept, apsc still dominates. Half of all money brought in with average unit prices at like a quarter of full frame. The unit volume difference is monstrous.

Because APS-C is cheaper. And more than good enough for the vast majority of users, including many professionals.

I do belive that the same can be achieved in FF with a series of travelzoom lenses. The size of a Sony A7 and a hypotetical f5.6 zoom to match light-gathering abilities of the smaller sensor with an f4 lens would make it the same size. Also, it would allow for better tonal transitions, better dynamic range and color fidelity of the larger sensor when there's plenty of light.

The only manufacturer to bring this approach has been samyang with their line of small and cheap primes on the Sony A7's

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lilBuddha Veteran Member • Posts: 4,203
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

Abel89er wrote:

lilBuddha wrote:

confused circle wrote:

Hmm, looks like Sony ff has 16% of milc sales. That's well ahead of Nikon (no apsc milc), but definitely behind Canon (top apsc milc and quick start with the R for ff milc) I wonder if Nikon will release an apsc milc model.

The Canon EOSM system does not do well because it is APS-C. It does well because it is small and still has a large sensor. Nikon tried that and failed.

And as no one here wanted to accept, apsc still dominates. Half of all money brought in with average unit prices at like a quarter of full frame. The unit volume difference is monstrous.

Because APS-C is cheaper. And more than good enough for the vast majority of users, including many professionals.

I do belive that the same can be achieved in FF with a series of travelzoom lenses.

That isn’t the point. The point was to illustrate why the M sells the way it does.

But I don’t think you are correct. Lens size is constrained, in part, by sensor coverage. FF will be larger barring significant innovation.

BJL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,163
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

Abel89er wrote:

lilBuddha wrote:

Because APS-C is cheaper. And more than good enough for the vast majority of users, including many professionals.

I do belive that the same can be achieved in FF with a series of travelzoom lenses.

That does not overcome the very large cost gap: the cheapest (new model) cameras in 35mm format are about three f four tie as expensive ass basic ones in APS-C or Four Thirds format. Keeping lens size and weight close by using "equivalent" lenses (high f-stops) and so canceling out any speed or DOF control advantages is not so attractive, even if the tonal gradations and such are a bit better. And what of the many for whom an f/5.6 zoom is enough in a smaller format, all east wen wanton to travel light? No 35mm format kit can match the smallest, lightest options in the smaller formats.

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Smaller lenses, better in low light, more telephoto reach:
you can have any _two_ at one time.

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david01234 Regular Member • Posts: 147
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

You can cut and slice the BCN data anyway you want but the trend will continue: Canon and Nikon will increase their market share of FF Mirrorless at the expense of Sony.

in Japan where data is available, Canon mirrorless already has been outselling Sony the past few years. The consumer level EOS M system has been outselling all of Sony mirrorless cameras (APS-C and FF).

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 41,737
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers
1

I didn't even have to look at your gear list to know you were a Canon Fan***.

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Tom

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BJL Veteran Member • Posts: 9,163
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers
1

david01234 wrote:

You can cut and slice the BCN data anyway you want but the trend will continue: Canon and Nikon will increase their market share of FF Mirrorless at the expense of Sony.

Yes. And how many times does it need to be explained that this is completely consistent with all three companies increasing their unit sales, revenues and profits in this growing market sector? As to the idea of being “at the expense of”, one extreme possibility is that all those Canon and Nikon sales are “at the expense of” sales of Canon and Nikon DSLRs, with Sony’s sales trend unaffected.

Not that I believe either of the extreme conclusions being argued for here by rival gangs of fanboys

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Smaller lenses, better in low light, more telephoto reach:
you can have any _two_ at one time.

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lilBuddha Veteran Member • Posts: 4,203
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

tbcass wrote:

I didn't even have to look at your gear list to know you were a Canon Fan***.

Whilst I think his statement is not necessarily based upon research, it isn't crazy.

Sony gained at least some sales from Canon and Nikon users who wanted mirrorless or some feature their mirrorless cameras had. Now that both are into the FF market, those types of users have less incentive to switch. And, some of those who switched might switch back. How many? Who knows. Personally, I wish all the makers well as that will be the result of a continuing healthy camera market. But Canon and Nikon are no 1 and 2 and I've seen no reason for that to end.

tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 41,737
Re: Clarity re: recent mirrorless BCN numbers

david01234 wrote:

You can cut and slice the BCN data anyway you want but the trend will continue: Canon and Nikon will increase their market share of FF Mirrorless at the expense of Sony.

Are you clairvoyant?

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Tom

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