Some thoughts about EOS M, EOS R and Fuji

Hi,

I've just read the review of the impressive Fuji X-T3 here on dpreview. Since I am a Canon shooter from day one, I usually don't look around that much. I try to focus on my technique, not gear. Well, kind of...

But the recent offerings made me think: I will almost for sure upgrade to an EOS R system to replace my 80D at some time in future. I will be able to use some of my EF lenses with the adapter and will buy into some new RF lenses - and sell my EF-S lenses.

Today, when I want to travel light I usually take my M5 with me. I never use adapted lenses because of weight and usability (large lens vs. small body). I much prefer my 80D if weight/size is no problem, which usually isn't.

Now, when I see these great reviews about Fuji X-T3 I wonder if I should think about ditching the M5 altogether. The Fuji is similar in size but offers way better video and FPS. And I love all those fast lenses Fuji offers. I suspect that we won't get near with Canon M-lenses, the M 32mm f/1.4 being the only exception.

Since EOS M and EOS R have incompatible mounts, there are diminishing benefits owning an M instead of another brand, like Fuji. So why not switch to Fuji?

Have you ever used the X-T3 or other Fuji cameras? What did you like/dislike in comparison to the M5 or other EOS M cameras?

Thanks!

It really depends on how invested you are in Canon gears.

For me because I use them for both work and personal I would stay with Canon.

If anything we will likely see Canon M5 Mark II around CES 2019 or sometime next year, and probably M6 Mark II as well. That's for APS-C, but don't expect too much on Video in 4K, it will be slightly better than M50 for sure lol.

There might be another R that we don't know about coming next year. I am hoping it's APS-H with better video capabilities and hopefully for action / sports.

StevenSHH wrote:

It really depends on how invested you are in Canon gears.

For me because I use them for both work and personal I would stay with Canon.

If anything we will likely see Canon M5 Mark II around CES 2019 or sometime next year, and probably M6 Mark II as well. That's for APS-C, but don't expect too much on Video in 4K, it will be slightly better than M50 for sure lol.

There might be another R that we don't know about coming next year. I am hoping it's APS-H with better video capabilities and hopefully for action / sports.

Thanks, I suppose I will postpone any decision until 2019 anyway.

My current investment in EOS-M is limited (M5, 15-45, 22, 11-22) so it is still not much. I'll definitely won't sell my EF lenses. I am just thinking about switching from EOS-M to Fuji...

Adielle wrote:

Do yourself a favor and get a camera with IBIS instead.

Well, IBIS is not really important for my usage:

• For stills I usually have people in the frame, so I use fast shutters anyway.
• For video the camera is almost always on a tripod.
• On the run I use an iPhone (sometimes with a gimbal). This outperforms almost every other setup in terms of stabilization.

Adielle wrote:

If that's what you believe, then stay with Canon and don't bother with Fuji, especially the cameras with an x-trans sensor.

Sorry, I do not understand, what you are trying to tell me. Are my beliefs or reasoning wrong? What is the problem with x-trans sensors?

Adielle wrote:

Pepege wrote:

Adielle wrote:

If that's what you believe, then stay with Canon and don't bother with Fuji, especially the cameras with an x-trans sensor.

Sorry, I do not understand, what you are trying to tell me. Are my beliefs or reasoning wrong? What is the problem with x-trans sensors?

I'm not trying to tell you, I'm telling you that I think you should stay with Canon if you believe that IBIS is gonna be of no use to you (which I believe is totally wrong). Don't argue with me about my recommendation, you asked for recommendations and this is mine, so take it or leave it. There isn't "a problem", there are multiple problems with the x-trans sensor cameras, and I'm not gonna start an x-trans sucks discussion here, there are plenty already on these forums. If you want to keep it small and light, you'll get that with EOS-M (and Canon will release more lenses), and if you want to bother with full-frame and much heavier lenses, go with R. It's simple. I would absolutely not go with R to use the old APS-C lenses with it (which requires cropping the image).

Thanks for your reply. And please do not feel offended. I didn't want argue about your recommendation, I just didn't understand it in the first place. Thanks for clarification.

nnowak wrote:

I have not yet used the X-T3, but I do have quite a bit of experience with the X-T2 and several Fuji lenses. I have also used Canon cameras for numerous years.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply!

Coming from Canon, the Fuji control methodology can feel pretty foreign at first. I was used to a PASM dial plus a combination of buttons and dials for most other functions like ISO, WB, and exposure comp. With cameras like the X-T3, there is no PASM dial. Instead, you achieve the same modes using a combination of aperture ring, shutter speed dial, and ISO dial. Each of those three controls includes an "Auto" position. Want "P" mode? Set all three to "Auto". Want "A" mode? Set Shutter and ISO to "Auto" and manually select your aperture. Once you become accustomed to this methodology, it is starts to make more sense that the traditional PASM dial. For example, I often shoot in Aperture Priority, but occasionally I want to take control of shutter speed too. Instead of turning the dial to "M" and then adjusting shutter speed like on a Canon camera, I can just quickly twist the shutter speed dial to my desired setting. Menus are also quite different between Canon and Fuji, but both tend to be laid out fairly logically. The Fuji menus may be a bit more complex, but that is mostly because the Fuji cameras tend to offer more customization options.

I think I will have to try out Fuji's control methodology. Although I am used to Canon's PASM dial, as you point out, sometimes it feels a bit complicated. I think the Fuji style could work for me.

The new Fv-mode on the EOS R seems to be similar, just without the manual rings/dials.

For lenses, the majority of the Fuji options are very high quality (optically and mechanically) and there are plenty of options for small and cheap or large and fast to fit whatever you need. The only real gap in the Fuji lineup is lenses longer than 200mm. There is the 100-400mm lens, but that is the only option if you need significant reach.

Yes, the lenses seems to be very nice and perfect for my shooting style. I like using primes and if they are small and fast, that's just great.

Image quality from Canon and Fuji are both great, but the M system is limited by the lens options. A lens like the Fuji 56mm f1.2 allows you to capture photos that are simply not possible with the M system and any common lens options. Personally, I prefer the out of camera JPEGs from Fuji over anything I can get from Canon. I still shoot RAW, but Fuji JPEGs are often good enough that I find I have less need to mess with RAW files than when shooting with Canon.

In general, I find the Fuji system to be far more complete and more capable of being used as a standalone system. At one time my gear list looked very similar to yours plus the addition of a 5D II. I found I was able to easily replace all of it with a smaller Fuji system.

A few things to consider....

You may want to also look at the X-T2 given the significant discounts. Used prices on eBay are even cheaper. AF is still very capable and video quality is far better than the M system.

The Fuji X-A5 makes a nice pocketable complement to the larger bodies, especially when paired with one of the small pancake lense. The X-A5 takes the same batteries as the X-T2/X-T3, but AF is quite a bit slower and not well suited to subject tracking.

There are now a few Canon EF to Fuji XF adapters available with full AF and IS functionality. Fringer seems to be the most capable and a recent firmware update added the ability to load Canon lens correction data that would be interpreted by the Fuji body. The Fringer adapter also includes a pseudo aperture ring similar to what Canon just did with their EF to RF adapter.

There is a fairly healthy used market for Fuji bodies and lenses. If you wanted to experiment with Fuji, you could purchase a used body and some used lenses and resell them later for little loss if things did not work out.

Thanks again. I will give it a try.

So long I am happy with my M5, but who knows...

Have you ever used the X-T3 or other Fuji cameras? What did you like/dislike in comparison to the M5 or other EOS M cameras?

I had Fuji XE1 for something like 3.5 year. lovely camera, and 18-55 and 35/2 were excellent optics to use.

but...

this being a small camera seemed excellent for travelling. but only seemed until I realized I actually like having UWA lens and only option in Fuji is very expensive XF 10-24. at the price of this lens alone I could buy 750D with 18-55 STM kit and 10-18 STM. with both being respectable zooms (not Fuji XF quality, sure, but good enough for me when travelling) and the camera having full compatibility with my EF lenses, which made it great secondary camera for my backpack. and I ended up with 750D, 10-18, 18-55 and 55-250, and later with 35/2 IS with actually zero remorse. Fuji was a lovely camera, but it wasn't optimal for me as secondary system.

at this point I'm thinking of swapping the Rebel to with M5 with EF/EFM adapter and the EFM 35/1.4. going back to Fuji... not really. I would love to have XT1 with basic set of primes, but can't afford to have two secondary cameras and lens sets

Pepege wrote:

StevenSHH wrote:

It really depends on how invested you are in Canon gears.

For me because I use them for both work and personal I would stay with Canon.

If anything we will likely see Canon M5 Mark II around CES 2019 or sometime next year, and probably M6 Mark II as well. That's for APS-C, but don't expect too much on Video in 4K, it will be slightly better than M50 for sure lol.

There might be another R that we don't know about coming next year. I am hoping it's APS-H with better video capabilities and hopefully for action / sports.

Thanks, I suppose I will postpone any decision until 2019 anyway.

My current investment in EOS-M is limited (M5, 15-45, 22, 11-22) so it is still not much. I'll definitely won't sell my EF lenses. I am just thinking about switching from EOS-M to Fuji...

If you can afford fuji lenses i dont see any reason not to.

If you've been happy with your M5, the form factor, controls, etc...and most of the motivation for possibly changing is in wanting better overall IQ or performance at the same weight/size, the only caution I'd offer is that the Fuji system would be a fair bit more expensive, and the equivalent lenses in many cases are a bit larger and heavier as well.  If compactness is supremely important for this particular camera system (given you would also have a full-frame system), then the Canon which may compromise in other areas vs the Fuji would still win out in size and weight as well as cost.

Your M5 weighs in at 428g, and measures 4.6" x 3.5" x 2.4".  The X-t3 is a bit wider at 5.2", comparable at 3.7" and 2.3" in other dimensions, and heavier at 539G.

Since Fuji has more lenses for X mount than Canon does for M mount, I'll just compare the closest Fuji comparisons to Canon's M lenses for weight:

11-22mm (220G) vs Fuji 10-24mm (410G).

32mm F1.4 (235G) vs Fuji 35mm F1.4 (187G)

22mm F2 (105G) vs Fuji 23mm F2 (180G)

18-150mm (301G) vs Fuji 18-135mm (490G)

15-45mm (130G) vs Fuji 15-45mm (135G)

Total camera plus lens weight for the Canon lenses is 1,419G, or 3.12Lb, for the Fuji kit 1,941G, or 4.28Lb.

The Fuji lenses, like Sony's, tend to be pricier - not that it matters to everyone - just something to consider.

Other tangibles may be more impactful than size and weight alone - the Fuji's focus will be faster, tracking will be better, high ISO may be more competitive, not to mention viewfinder, physical controls, etc.  That's up to you, of course!

I say this as a completely neutral 3rd party, not owning either Canon EOS-M or Fuji!

zackiedawg wrote:

If you've been happy with your M5, the form factor, controls, etc...and most of the motivation for possibly changing is in wanting better overall IQ or performance at the same weight/size, the only caution I'd offer is that the Fuji system would be a fair bit more expensive, and the equivalent lenses in many cases are a bit larger and heavier as well. If compactness is supremely important for this particular camera system (given you would also have a full-frame system), then the Canon which may compromise in other areas vs the Fuji would still win out in size and weight as well as cost.

Your M5 weighs in at 428g, and measures 4.6" x 3.5" x 2.4". The X-t3 is a bit wider at 5.2", comparable at 3.7" and 2.3" in other dimensions, and heavier at 539G.

Since Fuji has more lenses for X mount than Canon does for M mount, I'll just compare the closest Fuji comparisons to Canon's M lenses for weight:

11-22mm (220G) vs Fuji 10-24mm (410G).

32mm F1.4 (235G) vs Fuji 35mm F1.4 (187G)

22mm F2 (105G) vs Fuji 23mm F2 (180G)

18-150mm (301G) vs Fuji 18-135mm (490G)

15-45mm (130G) vs Fuji 15-45mm (135G)

Total camera plus lens weight for the Canon lenses is 1,419G, or 3.12Lb, for the Fuji kit 1,941G, or 4.28Lb.

The Fuji lenses, like Sony's, tend to be pricier - not that it matters to everyone - just something to consider.

Other tangibles may be more impactful than size and weight alone - the Fuji's focus will be faster, tracking will be better, high ISO may be more competitive, not to mention viewfinder, physical controls, etc. That's up to you, of course!

I am quite happy about the IQ of my M5, and I mainly have it for low weight. So thanks alot for pointing out the weight differences. The price will be much higher as well, but this is not my main concern.

I think I will have to try out the ergonomics of the Fuji, because I am not really sold to the ergonomics of the EOS M line. But I think this is mainly du to the size on the grip, which won't be bigger in any system without negative impact to weight.

I say this as a completely neutral 3rd party, not owning either Canon EOS-M or Fuji!

Cool, thanks a lot!

That's what I like on this "Canon EOS M Talk" forum. You can ask a Fuji/Canon question without being stoned to death!