Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

Started 7 months ago | Polls
Mikeb9550 Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

I too would like IBIS. A lot of people state they don’t need it and I would mostly fall into that category but when I do need it, I want it to be there.

There is no trade offs with modern IBIS. Not sure why people think there are compromises.

AaronX Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

This assertion --- " there will still be a penalty on price and camera size" is actually misperception. Sony A7 and Panasonic cameras started without IBIS, and they added IBIS later without adding to the size and price. In the old DSLR days, Pentax had IBIS and had no price or size penalties compared to Canon and Nikon. Obviously with IBIS you need to add something into the camera and there is a research cost, but apparently these can be absorbed.

Maybe Fuji has already figured it out and it's just a marketing strategy to let the early adopters buy the X-T3, and make another sale with the IBIS enabled X-T4, If the X-T3 had IBIS, the X-T4 might not have enough new features.

OP virgil1612 Regular Member • Posts: 326
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
2

I just realized that I didn't answer my own question yet.

And I also realized that maybe it's not a great question to ask. Some of the answers were erring on what Fujifilm should do, which was not my intention, because that would just reflect our own preferences and style of shooting, which are unique to each photographer or enthusiast.

I wanted in fact to provoke some educated guesses as to what fuji will do concerning IBIS and probably I didn't explain it well enough, though of course only Fujifilm knows what it will do.

Me, I think Fuji will put an IBIS in the X-T4. The way I see things, Fujifilm was slow in implementing advanced features in their cameras. When they came out with their X-Pro1, the focus was slow and it took Fuji all these years, before producing the X-T3, with a really great AF . The movie features (AF and others) were also way behind others and it's only with the X-T3 again that they are on par (even ahead).

So with IBIS, they are just starting developing it, they did it for the X-H1, but can't do it yet small enough for an X-T or X-E body. But I think they are working on it and will put it on the X-T4, keeping the small form factor of the camera. I think they want to show that what Sony is doing, they can do it too (technical features I mean, because in color and usability they are way ahead).

I think IBIS slowly becomes an ubiquitous feature of serious cameras.

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Advent1sam
Advent1sam Veteran Member • Posts: 6,760
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

virgil1612 wrote:

I just bought the X-T100 and I decided that my future Fuji body, whenever it comes (for me) will have IBIS. I wonder if Fuji will put IBIS in the X-T4 or IBIS will used exclusively in the X-H bodies. What do you say?

I prefer no ibis or basic sensor shift on button press which is more stable when off, and wish that all Fuji lens just have ois, when an ibis sensor is locked down ie switched off it still can "rattle"

Sensor-shift IS systems operate by ‘floating’ the sensor using a series of electromagnets. Even when they’re ‘off’ they’re not locked in place, they’re simply set so that the electromagnets aren’t attempting to correct for movement. This has the side-effect that, which mounted on a professional stabilization rig, there’s a risk of the sensor being shaken around.

For high-end video work, Panasonic says its users would prefer to use dedicated gimbals and dollies, rather than internal stabilization, and that means physically locking the sensor in place to avoid unwanted interactions between these systems and a floating sensor. You also get noise and heat, look at the Nikon z7 I think they haven't solved that problem yet lol, Sony and Olympus already solved it, well Olympus gave the tech to Sony.

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DarnGoodPhotos Veteran Member • Posts: 8,381
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
1

IBIS will end up in the other cameras once Fuji can make it small enough to not affect body size.

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57even Forum Pro • Posts: 13,285
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
1

AaronX wrote:

This assertion --- " there will still be a penalty on price and camera size" is actually misperception. Sony A7 and Panasonic cameras started without IBIS, and they added IBIS later without adding to the size and price. In the old DSLR days, Pentax had IBIS and had no price or size penalties compared to Canon and Nikon.

They were larger, heavier and more expensive than the previous versions of the same camera. Money is saved elsewhere, and the A7iii cuts a lot of corners in terms of LCD, EVF and weather sealing.

Obviously with IBIS you need to add something into the camera and there is a research cost, but apparently these can be absorbed.

Not entirely, no. Something else is compromised. A simple fact you can't seem to fathom. Plus the fact that Sony wanted to force Canon and Nikon to a lower entry point cost for mirrorless.

Maybe Fuji has already figured it out and it's just a marketing strategy to let the early adopters buy the X-T3, and make another sale with the IBIS enabled X-T4, If the X-T3 had IBIS, the X-T4 might not have enough new features.

Or maybe it would have cost more to re-engineer the bodies to accept it which would have pushed the cost up and made it uncompetitive against the latest FF cameras.

Just because you can't have what you want does not mean there is a conspiracy.

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AaronX Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

57even wrote:

AaronX wrote:

This assertion --- " there will still be a penalty on price and camera size" is actually misperception. Sony A7 and Panasonic cameras started without IBIS, and they added IBIS later without adding to the size and price. In the old DSLR days, Pentax had IBIS and had no price or size penalties compared to Canon and Nikon.

They were larger, heavier and more expensive than the previous versions of the same camera. Money is saved elsewhere, and the A7iii cuts a lot of corners in terms of LCD, EVF and weather sealing.

Obviously with IBIS you need to add something into the camera and there is a research cost, but apparently these can be absorbed.

Not entirely, no. Something else is compromised. A simple fact you can't seem to fathom. Plus the fact that Sony wanted to force Canon and Nikon to a lower entry point cost for mirrorless.

Maybe Fuji has already figured it out and it's just a marketing strategy to let the early adopters buy the X-T3, and make another sale with the IBIS enabled X-T4, If the X-T3 had IBIS, the X-T4 might not have enough new features.

Or maybe it would have cost more to re-engineer the bodies to accept it which would have pushed the cost up and made it uncompetitive against the latest FF cameras.

Just because you can't have what you want does not mean there is a conspiracy.

Indeed you choose to believe in what you believe and will not understand what you cannot fathom.

dual12 Contributing Member • Posts: 725
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
4

I say that I've seen enough of these IBIS X-T threads.

57even Forum Pro • Posts: 13,285
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?

AaronX wrote:

57even wrote:

AaronX wrote:

This assertion --- " there will still be a penalty on price and camera size" is actually misperception. Sony A7 and Panasonic cameras started without IBIS, and they added IBIS later without adding to the size and price. In the old DSLR days, Pentax had IBIS and had no price or size penalties compared to Canon and Nikon.

They were larger, heavier and more expensive than the previous versions of the same camera. Money is saved elsewhere, and the A7iii cuts a lot of corners in terms of LCD, EVF and weather sealing.

Obviously with IBIS you need to add something into the camera and there is a research cost, but apparently these can be absorbed.

Not entirely, no. Something else is compromised. A simple fact you can't seem to fathom. Plus the fact that Sony wanted to force Canon and Nikon to a lower entry point cost for mirrorless.

Maybe Fuji has already figured it out and it's just a marketing strategy to let the early adopters buy the X-T3, and make another sale with the IBIS enabled X-T4, If the X-T3 had IBIS, the X-T4 might not have enough new features.

Or maybe it would have cost more to re-engineer the bodies to accept it which would have pushed the cost up and made it uncompetitive against the latest FF cameras.

Just because you can't have what you want does not mean there is a conspiracy.

Indeed you choose to believe in what you believe and will not understand what you cannot fathom.

Have you ever worked in production engineering?

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 13,048
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
2

dual12 wrote:

I say that I've seen enough of these IBIS X-T threads.

Then, my all means exercise your ability to ignore them and move on to threads which are of greater interest. Clearly, the subject continues to have "legs" given both the number of threads and responses within those threads.

I can certainly see why some folks might be tiring of the discussion, in which case, just give them a pass. Complaining about it here won't change a thing.

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Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

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webber15 Senior Member • Posts: 1,556
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
2

Mikeb9550 wrote:

I too would like IBIS. A lot of people state they don’t need it and I would mostly fall into that category but when I do need it, I want it to be there.

There is no trade offs with modern IBIS. Not sure why people think there are compromises.

There are compromises...and ibis causes more than ois (though no stabilization at all is preferred, and I will freely admit that the notable iq difference between stabilized and not stabilized is probably small).

As already mentioned in this thread, you have plenty of choice if you want ibis - from a variety of makes, and that includes a camera from Fuji.

I honestly don't understand the mentality of the ibis fans...they whinge that Fuji doesn't have it, then when it's implemented in a particularly model, they whinge it's not in "ALL" models - and that's despite the fact there are many who do not want ibis.

What gives!!

Dave.

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Greg7579
Greg7579 Senior Member • Posts: 6,425
Sorry I Missed This

Great question.  Just saw this down low on the Board.

The answer is it better or Fuji is in big trouble.

So the answer is yes.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
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Greg7579
Greg7579 Senior Member • Posts: 6,425
Adios Amigo!

dual12 wrote:

I say that I've seen enough of these IBIS X-T threads.

Goodbye Dual.

You can't stay here because I can promise you that over the next two years you are going to see 5000 IBIS threads if you do.  This is a Fuji camera equipment board My Friend.

The single biggest issue Fuji faces is getting IBIS on the XT-4.  It is their biggest challenge and we are going to be talking about it and arguing about it every day for a long, long time.  Fuji must do this and they know it.  Failure is not an option.

Adios.  It was nice having you here for a while.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,829
Re: Adios Amigo!

Greg7579 wrote:

dual12 wrote:

I say that I've seen enough of these IBIS X-T threads.

Goodbye Dual.

You can't stay here because I can promise you that over the next two years you are going to see 5000 IBIS threads if you do. This is a Fuji camera equipment board My Friend.

The single biggest issue Fuji faces is getting IBIS on the XT-4. It is their biggest challenge and we are going to be talking about it and arguing about it every day for a long, long time. Fuji must do this and they know it. Failure is not an option.

Adios. It was nice having you here for a while.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

I agree, getting IBIS into an XT4 should be their highest priority now the camera seems spot on with AF, video, build, ergonomics etc.

Its the only real "flaw".

They can't say it can't be done as Sony manages to squeeze it into the A6500 which is tiny.

Greg.

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celestialemissary
celestialemissary Contributing Member • Posts: 633
Re: Will the future X-T4 have IBIS or not?
1

Platinum_Jello wrote:

If they know what they're doing they'll keep it separate/keep the X-T line lean and mean for stills shooters. That said, so many people are crapping their pants over this and flippy flappy vanity screens, they'll probably eventually cave. Then we'll have the same features on every model and you'll have your choice if 10 different versions of the same camera.

Yeah those people only think about them selfs. 
Every camera has to be great for vlogging (even if it's 1.4gb fullframe beast) and it need to have that stupid screen.
No thanks

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Greg7579
Greg7579 Senior Member • Posts: 6,425
Re: Adios Amigo!
1

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

Greg7579 wrote:

dual12 wrote:

I say that I've seen enough of these IBIS X-T threads.

Goodbye Dual.

You can't stay here because I can promise you that over the next two years you are going to see 5000 IBIS threads if you do. This is a Fuji camera equipment board My Friend.

The single biggest issue Fuji faces is getting IBIS on the XT-4. It is their biggest challenge and we are going to be talking about it and arguing about it every day for a long, long time. Fuji must do this and they know it. Failure is not an option.

Adios. It was nice having you here for a while.

Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums

I agree, getting IBIS into an XT4 should be their highest priority now the camera seems spot on with AF, video, build, ergonomics etc.

Its the only real "flaw".

They can't say it can't be done as Sony manages to squeeze it into the A6500 which is tiny.

Greg.

There is no should be.  It absolutely is their number one priority.  Hard to do unless they change the mount, and they can't do that...  This is all absolute fact.  You guys can argue this all you want.  This is a big deal.  Fuji went APSC, which was brilliant.  But they designed the mount just a tad too small.  They weren't thinking about IBIS back then.  Now they are.  They have to, or they are screwed.

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JS Burnie
JS Burnie Veteran Member • Posts: 3,878
Re: Adios Amigo!

X-H1 has the same mount, no?  It's how big the rest of the body is, including adequate cooling.  Am I missing something?

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Gibbons3D Forum Member • Posts: 75
Re: Adios Amigo!

I don’t see them doing it without costs going a lot higher, at that point the masses would just go full frame the price is that close.

XH series is thier answer to people who want it and I’m happy it’s a choice where we can determine what model suits are needs and price points.

I personally think there biggest issue going forward with new tech is battery life.

KariP
KariP Veteran Member • Posts: 5,078
Commercially clever - as it is now

virgil1612 wrote:

I just bought the X-T100 and I decided that my future Fuji body, whenever it comes (for me) will have IBIS. I wonder if Fuji will put IBIS in the X-T4 or IBIS will used exclusively in the X-H bodies. What do you say?

to have separate and different series of cameras. Just like cars. 4 wheel drive is a useful thing - some people do not need it and do not want to pay more.

It is very likely that X-H1 will get all the "bells and whistles" and some more that X-T3 now has. And then there is the camera that has everything - and the price is higher.

X-T3 will be smaller and a bit cheaper. People who use OIS lenses do not really need IBIS - of course it is nice to have.

There is no commercial wisdom in producing cameras that are all a like.  If Ibis is engineered/squeezed  to X-T3 body and the size can not get bigger the price of the X-T4 camera will be even higher than the price of X-H2.

Fuji has clearly three or four different  camera lines for "advanced amateurs" or pros. 1    )X- pro series with a different viewfinder ( that camera can get IBIS)

2) range finder style smaller X-E  series that gets smaller every time - if they want to keep it small and light and cheaper there is no room for IBIS

3) X-T series has everything but IBIS and it stays compact ...

4) X-H series  stays as the IBIS model, slightly bigger and aimed  for a special group who uses especially prime lenses - or like to have a bigger body.

Fujifilm wants to sell lenses and cameras - there is no point in creating basically just one model that has everything and also a steep price.

There are several types and models of customers with different needs and budgets.

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Kari
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left eye
left eye Senior Member • Posts: 1,609
X-T = thinner body / X-H = IBIS

virgil1612 wrote:

I just bought the X-T100 and I decided that my future Fuji body, whenever it comes (for me) will have IBIS. I wonder if Fuji will put IBIS in the X-T4 or IBIS will used exclusively in the X-H bodies. What do you say?

I hope Fuji have two parallel lines, the X-T and the X-H, so we can choose whether we want a body with a floating sensor where IBIS (even when off) is constantly draining our battery, or not.

Also if we don't want IBIS we can then have the less deep body of the X-T line (a floating sensor and IBIS actuators take up more depth).

...the 'top view' for both 1 & 2 cameras here...

https://camerasize.com/compare/#800,772

...otherwise what real difference would there be, a deeper X-T body with IBIS - well that's an X-H.

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