How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

Started Oct 15, 2018 | Discussions
phototherapy Senior Member • Posts: 1,002
How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

Panasonic Lumix DC-G9
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left eye
left eye Senior Member • Posts: 1,811
Using the studio-scene comparison...
4

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

I've never found the OOC jpegs from the G series to be that great - mainly too much NR is applied to hide the inherit noise from m43 sensors. I'd rather see the noise (and the detail). So you do need to turn NR to minimum - but even then too much NR is applied IMO. The sharpening radius is rather crude also.

In fact ISO 800 (and shooting raw) is my limit for ok quality. Really I find you need to shoot at ISO 200 or maybe 400 if you want good quality (i.e. detail retention). ISO 3200 is never going to be a strong point for a fairly small sensor! I would avoid it at all costs.

These will be with NR set to the default, low light, ISO 3200...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=panasonic_dcg9&attr13_1=sony_a6500&attr13_2=fujifilm_xh1&attr13_3=nikon_z7&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=3200&attr16_1=3200&attr16_2=3200&attr16_3=3200&attr126_0=1&attr126_1=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.5991645092963049&y=-0.3248241758241759

raw helps...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=panasonic_dcg9&attr13_1=sony_a6500&attr13_2=fujifilm_xh1&attr13_3=nikon_z7&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=3200&attr16_1=3200&attr16_2=3200&attr16_3=3200&attr126_0=1&attr126_1=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.5991645092963049&y=-0.3248241758241759

...where the Fuji x-trans sensor is showing a clear advantage.

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schultz Regular Member • Posts: 283
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
2

I find it to be ok, shot taken at 3200iso/ 1/1600/2.8 G9/Lieca 200mf2.8

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left eye
left eye Senior Member • Posts: 1,811
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
3

schultz wrote:

I find it to be ok, shot taken at 3200iso/ 1/1600/2.8 G9/Lieca 200mf2.8

...but that's only 0.6MP.

@300dpi that's a 2 x 3" print.

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left eye
left eye Senior Member • Posts: 1,811
DPR gallery

Enter 'Grid View' then choose ISO 3200...

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/0107841691/panasonic-g9-sample-gallery

most are RAW conversions, there's a few OOC jpeg though.

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IanYorke Veteran Member • Posts: 3,497
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

Process with DXO-PL using PRIME noise reduction gives good results.

Ian

JosephScha Veteran Member • Posts: 6,007
Re: Using the studio-scene comparison...

Re:  "I've never found the OOC jpegs from the G series to be that great..." but I see you do not own a G9, and (as the review states) the OOC JPEGs on the G9 are substantially improved - better color accuracy mostly - compared to previous G series cameras.

Re: "mainly too much NR is applied to hide the inherit noise from m43 sensors. I'd rather see the noise (and the detail). So you do need to turn NR to minimum - but even then too much NR is applied IMO. The sharpening radius is rather crude also."  You definitely should be shooting RAW + JPEG fine.  Then, if the JPEG is good, wonderful; use it.  If you decide to develop from RAW so that the noise reduction and sharpening will be to your taste, you can do that.

Re: "In fact ISO 800 (and shooting raw) is my limit for ok quality."   You are, of course, entitled to that opinion.

Re: "Really I find you need to shoot at ISO 200 or maybe 400 if you want good quality (i.e. detail retention). ISO 3200 is never going to be a strong point for a fairly small sensor! I would avoid it at all costs."   Well I think that is overly harsh, especially for the G9.  Although perhaps it applies to OOC JPEGs more than to raw.   While it is certainly true that a 20MP m43 sensor will have slightly more noise than a 24MP APS sensor, the Fuji T3 has significantly more noise at its highest ISOs than the the T2. See the review. They think it's because the readout electronics are faster.

So my opinion - which nobody asked for - is that up to ISO 800 is usually fine (don't underexpose, if you can avoid it); 1600 and 3200 are recoverable from raw but - as the basketball pictures show - if looked at at 100% you will see remaining noise; the person who developed those ISO 3200 images clearly did not trade aware resolution by getting rid of all the noise.  I'd make the same judgment for ISO 3200, I think.

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js

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bclaff Veteran Member • Posts: 8,752
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

The DC-G9has a Low Light ISO at PhotonsToPhotos of ISO 2073 which is where the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) crosses 6.5 on this chart:

YMMV

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rubank Senior Member • Posts: 1,112
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

bclaff wrote:

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

The DC-G9has a Low Light ISO at PhotonsToPhotos of ISO 2073 which is where the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) crosses 6.5 on this chart:

YMMV

Following your link, numbers are different. ISO 2546 for a PDR of 6,58.

left eye
left eye Senior Member • Posts: 1,811
Re: Using the studio-scene comparison...

JosephScha wrote:

Re: "I've never found the OOC jpegs from the G series to be that great..." but I see you do not own a G9, and (as the review states) the OOC JPEGs on the G9 are substantially improved - better color accuracy mostly - compared to previous G series cameras.

Colour is totally fine with my GH5, probably not a million miles different to the G9. In anycase for OOC jpg I always shift the WB towards amber (with all my cameras) - just personal preference - and relates to daylight balanced film 'in the old days' being calibrated for 'cloud' kelvin temperature rather than 'full sun'. Daylight 'sun WB' these days is too cold - also auto WB is generally too cold.

Re: "mainly too much NR is applied to hide the inherit noise from m43 sensors. I'd rather see the noise (and the detail). So you do need to turn NR to minimum - but even then too much NR is applied IMO. The sharpening radius is rather crude also." You definitely should be shooting RAW + JPEG fine. Then, if the JPEG is good, wonderful; use it. If you decide to develop from RAW so that the noise reduction and sharpening will be to your taste, you can do that.

I was replying to the OP based on their OOC jpeg question. Personally I don't think the OOC jpeg quality is good enough (it's ok, but not good enough for me), so I only shoot raw now 90% of the time.

Re: "In fact ISO 800 (and shooting raw) is my limit for ok quality." You are, of course, entitled to that opinion.

Grain becomes 'a look' at ISO 800 and above. I don't use excessive NR to iron out noise, so at ISO 800 and above grain is a major part of the quality. It does remind me of 35mm film, and does mean there's less retouching to be done.

I'm not finding the dual-IS to be that effective that I can keep ISO below 800. So most indoor work is at ISO 800. Indoor = grain.

Re: "Really I find you need to shoot at ISO 200 or maybe 400 if you want good quality (i.e. detail retention). ISO 3200 is never going to be a strong point for a fairly small sensor! I would avoid it at all costs." Well I think that is overly harsh, especially for the G9. Although perhaps it applies to OOC JPEGs more than to raw. While it is certainly true that a 20MP m43 sensor will have slightly more noise than a 24MP APS sensor, the Fuji T3 has significantly more noise at its highest ISOs than the the T2. See the review. They think it's because the readout electronics are faster.

Not sure I'm seeing that apart from those DPR examples. Some comparisons may even show the inverse...

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=panasonic_dcg9&attr13_1=fujifilm_xt2&attr13_2=fujifilm_xh1&attr13_3=fujifilm_xt3&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=12800&attr16_1=12800&attr16_2=12800&attr16_3=12800&attr126_0=1&attr126_1=1&normalization=compare&widget=1&x=0.6012520071724072&y=-0.6455022374414824

So my opinion - which nobody asked for - is that up to ISO 800 is usually fine (don't underexpose, if you can avoid it); 1600 and 3200 are recoverable from raw but - as the basketball pictures show - if looked at at 100% you will see remaining noise; the person who developed those ISO 3200 images clearly did not trade aware resolution by getting rid of all the noise. I'd make the same judgment for ISO 3200, I think.

...sure, for those basketball photos I'd leave more noise in.

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bclaff Veteran Member • Posts: 8,752
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
1

rubank wrote:

bclaff wrote:

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

The DC-G9has a Low Light ISO at PhotonsToPhotos of ISO 2073 which is where the Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) crosses 6.5 on this chart:

YMMV

Following your link, numbers are different. ISO 2546 for a PDR of 6,58.

Yeah, I transposed! ISO 2730 is where it crosses 6.50
--
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OP phototherapy Senior Member • Posts: 1,002
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
1

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

I did some comparison myself and , with this sample the G9 is incredible, what to think about this??? is this really possible, or am I missing something here ?

the Fuji X-T3 is on the left, G9 on the right, at ISO 12800 Jpeg.

Badwater Senior Member • Posts: 2,095
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
2

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

Depends on the shot.  IME It can do 6400 easy if the detail in the scene is good.  In very low light conditions with long exposure, like galaxy night sky landscape, it will do 3200 ISO with clean results, you can also go 4000, and 6400 but you'll need to do panorama or stacking to get that extra stop of NR for clean high resolution results.

The 12800 ISO is usable if the scene has lit detail.   This works for Monochrome, like L Monochrome D.  But not that good for color.

The JPG processor is amazing with NR up to 6400.  If you try to do RAW file and NR, you may get better results.  But at 3200 ISO, the camera does a great job of NR that you'll struggle to get in LR with NR.

JosephScha Veteran Member • Posts: 6,007
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

I really like the G9 but honestly I'd be surprised if ISO 12,800 looked that good.

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js

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Adrian Harris
Adrian Harris Veteran Member • Posts: 5,426
Iso3200 example ...
3

phototherapy wrote:

I'm interested in the Panasonic G9, but I would like to know how good the Jpeg OOC are in real low light at ISO 3200, thanks.

They say that the G9 is better than the GX8, well here is a GX8 image I took in appalling light at iso3200, the light was so poor that the Nikon shooter had already packed his camera away...

http://www.t1000.co.uk/art-fotografia/articles/article_gx8_20mp_at_iso3200_example.html

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Badwater Senior Member • Posts: 2,095
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
1

JosephScha wrote:

I really like the G9 but honestly I'd be surprised if ISO 12,800 looked that good.

I was surprised too when I actually saw pics of others shooting it at ISO 12800 in JPG.  And, had to test it out for myself.  And it's true, that camera can do 12800 straight out the camera with decent results.

Davidof_CR Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?
1

ISO 3200

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,753
+1

and to address some comments earlier in this thread about ISO800 etc...

I suppose the key point is how we control the exposure. For a smaller size sensor we simply need more light otherwise noise would be observable even at base ISO... A reason why many new M43 users complained noise in blue sky at ISO200...

Indeed it is true for every size of sensors just the larger one can be better only.

On GX7, I can only get barely satisfactory SOOC jpg on ISO1600, but on the same sensor on GX85 I can get much better result at ISO3200. I shall not surprise to see that under the improved jpg engine of G9 vs GX85, as well as with its newer sensor, should perform better than ISO3200.

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Albert

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OP phototherapy Senior Member • Posts: 1,002
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

JosephScha wrote:

I really like the G9 but honestly I'd be surprised if ISO 12,800 looked that good.

I am also very surprised to see this difference between the X-T3 and the G9 is this even correct ? if so what's wrong with the X-T3 ?? it's a APS-C sensor against MFT sensor ?

alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,753
Re: How good is the G9 at High ISO ?

phototherapy wrote:

JosephScha wrote:

I really like the G9 but honestly I'd be surprised if ISO 12,800 looked that good.

I am also very surprised to see this difference between the X-T3 and the G9 is this even correct ? if so what's wrong with the X-T3 ?? it's a APS-C sensor against MFT sensor ?

Might worth to look at the DR chart of phrotonstophoto.net, the DR of G9 is so good that can nearly overlap with that of XT3.

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Albert

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