Depth-of-Field Preview - EOS R

kevinertia wrote:

You have to assign DOF preview to a custom button. The shutter button is not an option for this, so you will not be able to replicate the behavior that you're accustomed to as far as I know. See pages 137 and 555 of the manual for more information.

Thank you for your reply Kevin! Yes, I already read the manual.

- Am I expecting too much from a mirrorless camera or is it Canon intentionally limiting its functionalities? 😅

- Do you have the same behavior with your Sony mirrorless for example?

I also find the exposure to be somewhat inconsistant vs my G1X Mark III. Auto WB is better thought.

kevinertia wrote:

You have to assign DOF preview to a custom button. The shutter button is not an option for this, so you will not be able to replicate the behavior that you're accustomed to as far as I know. See pages 137 and 555 of the manual for more information.

Is this how all mirrorless cameras work? I was under the impression that the other brands showed DOF preview as part of the EVF? Thanks in advance!

ThePointblank wrote:

The Canon EOS R focuses with the aperture wide open; this is partially the reason why the EOS R does so well focusing in low light.

Most other mirrorless systems operate fully stopped down when focusing.

well - in low light every mirrorless camera will focus with aperture wide open - unless you force different aperture manually

Personally I found it strange choice but maybe its just me. I prefer sony's DOF preview implementation

gakhar wrote:

kevinertia wrote:

You have to assign DOF preview to a custom button. The shutter button is not an option for this, so you will not be able to replicate the behavior that you're accustomed to as far as I know. See pages 137 and 555 of the manual for more information.

Is this how all mirrorless cameras work? I was under the impression that the other brands showed DOF preview as part of the EVF? Thanks in advance!

No. I've seen handled differently in different cameras, even within the same brand.

am2am wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

The Canon EOS R focuses with the aperture wide open; this is partially the reason why the EOS R does so well focusing in low light.

Most other mirrorless systems operate fully stopped down when focusing.

well - in low light every mirrorless camera will focus with aperture wide open - unless you force different aperture manually

Personally I found it strange choice but maybe its just me. I prefer sony's DOF preview implementation

What you said there is wrong. The sonys at least focus stopped down no matter what amount of like there is. You can only shoot wide open to get wide open focus..,

What they will do is focus initially wide open and immediately stop down with live view preview off. So in AF-C it will try to do continuous focus stopped down which will end up resulting in CDAF hunting if the light is low enough. Sony doesn’t allow you to turn this behavior off.

I was not precise enough so to clarify my previous statement.

I know sony will focus stopped down if aperture is set-up this way. I understand  the difference in canon's implementation. And I agree this is superior AF solution (have both sony mirrorless and canon DSLR at home and did compare AF in low light) but there is trade off in live view DOF.

My message is the following: in most low-light cases it doesn't matter.

Any camera will try to maximize amount of light captured in low light situation. With auto-iso engaged and shutter speed defined you'll end up with fully opened aperture anyhow.

With aperture priority photographer makes a decision - in my case I always go wide open low light unless I have to achieve particular affect (very rare scenario).

Re DOF preview implementation - it's probably individual taste and preference - I found it really useful to see constantly how my final picture will look like in sony EVF. My photo's taking technique evolved partially thanks to this - I've realized I spend less time on AF and  focus more  on the composition and the final picture effect.

am2am wrote:

I was not precise enough so to clarify my previous statement.

I know sony will focus stopped down if aperture is set-up this way. I understand the difference in canon's implementation. And I agree this is superior AF solution (have both sony mirrorless and canon DSLR at home and did compare AF in low light) but there is trade off in live view DOF.

My message is the following: in most low-light cases it doesn't matter.

Any camera will try to maximize amount of light captured in low light situation. With auto-iso engaged and shutter speed defined you'll end up with fully opened aperture anyhow.

With aperture priority photographer makes a decision - in my case I always go wide open low light unless I have to achieve particular affect (very rare scenario).

Re DOF preview implementation - it's probably individual taste and preference - I found it really useful to see constantly how my final picture will look like in sony EVF. My photo's taking technique evolved partially thanks to this - I've realized I spend less time on AF and focus more on the composition and the final picture effect.

I do not despute the pros of having stopped down focus. I just loath the fact that on Sony systems you can not turn it off.

In low light or for macro photography having the system focus wide open and only stop down when fully depressing the shutter is ideal, while in good light or when you don’t need to work fast one can take advantage of stopped down focus. I will give you 3 scenarios.

1. If you have a scene that demands you stop down to f11 and beyond, the sensor is deprived from too much light and you immediately have CDAF over PDAF. Let’s day you want a slow enough shutter sleep to have some motion in there. Or you are shooting video and you don’t have an ND filter and you are shooting at 1/25.

2. You are at a party or dinner and you want to shoot at f3.5 up to f6.3 to catch enough people in focus. Ideally you want as fast as possible AF to catch those candidate fleeting moments but the DOF you want.

3. Last but not least. MILC is at a major disadvantage to DSLRs when you consider flash photography. You can be in a room without light and still get perfect and instant focus with IR assist. You set your aperture based on what your photo to look like since you have the flash to provide the amount of light you need to keep ISO low. Though the EOS R doesn’t have the IR AF option either the fact is that with wide open focusing and that -6EV rating it will be far superior than to any other MILC system out there in low light situations with a flash on board. Heck I would say that for AF-C it even beats DSLRs since IR AF is a AF-S kind of thing.

If you don’t see any value in any of the above then ignore me. But the fact is that I have been saying for years that Sony can solve this easy but putting look up tables in their lenses to fix their focus shift issue and they still haven’t done it. Canon comes out and does this on the getgo because they get exactly what I have been saying. Once you get enough experience I can ball part my f-setting for the DOF I want. I rather not cripple my AF for 30% of my shooting situations.

YMMV

Ciriaco Garcia wrote:

lawny13 wrote:

I do not despute the pros of having stopped down focus. I just loath the fact that on Sony systems you can not turn it off.

That is not always true. The Sony cameras may also focus wide open, but this is a relatively complex subject:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1554180/

I have tested this with the 4 lenses I had (including the kit), and to me there is just two tests that really really matters.

1. Set live view update off. Set camera to AF-C, Press the AF-On button.

Behaviour: initial focus is done wide open (or at least partially so), and the lens immediately stops down and tries to do the rest of the focusing stopped down. If the light and f# setting means CDAF... well too bad for you.

2. The same is done with AF-S, but it stopped AF once obtained.

Extra behavior to note. With AF decoupled from the shutter button (for back button focusing) press the shutter half way and the camera will stop down for AE anyway. So rather than be able to just calculate and simulate the exposure it also stops down.

So... no matter what you do you will starve the sensor of light, and you have no option to turn this off. So, dinner parties and nigh events, kids parties, or any less than ideal amount of light and you have to shoot wide open to maximize AF performance. It is a shame you can’t have the best AF performance while stopped down. After all a scene were you want f4 for example doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t benefit for f1.8 aperture for focusing. Every experience photographer doesn’t need DOF all the time since they can estimate pretty well what will come out, or assess this at first. And you definitely don’t need DOF preview when shooting at 10 FPS and tracking since you won’t be paying attention to this.

al404 wrote:

No way to have DOF live preview without pressing an assigned button on RP?

I think this is one of the huge advances of mirrorless...

Huge advantage is relative. 
Currently you have to different camps. 
1. stopped down focusing from sony (but this is forced, as in you can't have it any other way).

2. Wide open focusing which is what canon does.

Pros for the Sony side, is what you see is what you get. Obvious advantages there.

Pros for canon is that you never compromise the AF system when shooting as you always get maximum light.

I have shot both systems. And if I had to pick I would go with the canon approach. Come dim light situations and the AF system suffers needlessly. I care less for DOF than getting in focus images at the setting I want rather than the convenient setting for the system's AF but not the settings I want.

Some I can easily have a situation where I want an image at f5.6 shutter speed 1/30 with a 50mm lens, and ISO 1600 because I want more DOF. And for a candid moment I want the AF to focus quick wide open @f1.8.

HOWEVER, I wish canon would give us the option for both. In good light the AF system shouldn't have a problem. And if it can AF in video with @f11, I don't see why it can't do it in stills. They just need to give us that option. Sony on the other hand has the issue that it incorporated forced stopped down focusing because when they introduced their GM lenses they had significant focus shift, so it was their "fix" for that. Before that FW update you could turn it on and off.