Can't seem to find the right m4/3 camera

Max5150 wrote:

Dr Hal wrote:

The G9 is a fabulous camera. It is larger than my GX8 and my GX85 but it is so ergonomically superior and still has small lenses that it is the camera that I always grab first. It is the most intelligently designed camera that I have ever seen. It seems that every button is where it is most useful, the menu is excellent and has the MY MENU function which means when this feature is combined with the quick menu, I never have to sort through the menu. The viewfinder is excellent and the IQ and the focus are excellent. You must look at this camera.

Hal

Thanks. I've read a fair bit about the G9 and it sounds like a fabulous camera, except for one of my primary requirements of staying on the compact side since I'll probably take it when I travel. It's about the same size as a Nikon D5600 and is significantly heavier. When saddled up with a similar lens, the G9 is also 3x more expensive than the used G85/12-60mm rigs I'm seeing. It's definitely on a different level than what I was thinking. Consider, that I do not have a FF mirrorless rig, so not sure that's the direction I'd want to go. Without actually using it extensively, I just can't tell if it would fit the bill. I guess I could rent one.

The GX9 seems to be a cross between the GX85 (size and shape) and G9 (features).

But sheer tiny is the now well superseded GM5 - a pity.  But the GM5 was and is a fully functional camera, however in very basic terms increasing size means more “features” and weight.

Gven that the G9 and E-MIii are Panasonic and Olympus premium cameras lines respectively for features and the alterntive quoted for the Sony A7 series are in fact the A7Riii and A9.

jwilliams wrote:

Max5150 wrote:

Looking to downsize. APS-C bodies like the Sony 6500 are a good size but the lenses still too big. I was looking at the Panasonic G7, GX8/GX9, and GX85 in the store. I like the size and handling of the G7 more than the GX8/9, but want higher spec. G5 is too big - might as well buy an A7iii at that point.

Is there a higher spec G7 sized model in Japan that I'm not seeing here in the USA?

I could also go Olympus 10miii or 5mii, but their menu and a few other things has me leaning Panasonic. Not sure what's coming out in the near future either, but I usually stick with what's been out for a little while. I'm more interested in stills than video, but do take video as well.

Any suggestions about higher spec Panasonic in Europe or Japan markets?

out of luck really. If by higher spec you mean having the latest imaging tech, then only a few cameras meet your criteria and you just removed the only one that isn't basically as big as an APSC or FF camera.

The GX9 is the smallest camera with the 20MP sensor. Not tiny or really light, but smaller and lighter than all the others. If you don't like that, then you only have to choose from mostly older m43 models with the 16 MP sensor. The difference between the 16 and 20 MP sensors is small, but it is there and if doing things like shooting in lower light levels is much appreciated.

I just recently acquired a GX9. I haven't had it long enough to give any definitive advice. IQ seems a very small step up from the 16MP cameras and I don't see any glaring problems, but haven't used it much so not a lot else I can comment on yet. I'm guessing you prefer the DSLR style of the G7 and if so then the GX9 just isn't what you want.

I played with an EM10 III in a store recently and was surprised how much I liked it. It does however have the older 16MP sensor and really isn't high tech in any way. It has a pretty good EVF, a built in flash and handles pretty good with smaller/lighter lenses. Larger lenses will be a bit mismatched and there is no add on grip for this model.

The G85 is kind of what you are looking for (similar size/shape to G7), but it has the older sensor and the imaging pipeline is not as good as those in the most recent Panny cameras. This is a camera Panny needs to update pronto, but they have shown no interest in doing that publicly. A G95 with the imaging hardware from the G9/GX9 would be great, but it is nowhere on the horizon and may never happen.

Both Panny and especially Oly have fallen behind in the updating of their camera to be competitive with the rest of the market. Most have 6 year old sensor tech and Panny while recently updating its image processing, have only rolled that out into a few cameras.

This is the major problem facing m43. I am sure lots of folks like you are going to go to something like the really good Fuji XT3 because m43 at the moment just really is not competitive in most aspects.

Well said Jonathan, and I am still buying Panasonic bodies as well  Despite them being so out of date ....  must be mad.

jeffharris wrote:

Both REQUIRE an external, add-on grip to improve handling

This is very much a matter of personal preference. Not everyone's hands and fingers are the exact same size and shape.

Max5150 wrote:

So, I ended up buying a used Panasonic G85 with a 12-60mm 3.5-5.6 lens last week. I really like the way it handles. It feels great in my hands, however, the 4-way buttons on the back are a bit small and could use improved tactility. I'll probably put a dab of moldable rubber on top of them. Anyway, the menu layout is very good. I even like the way it sounds!

I was taking pictures of my kid's soccer game this weekend (when the players were close enough for the 12-60mm lens), and was surprised by the excellent job the G85 did. Focus was fast and spot on, with no dud's. I couldn't believe it!

Time will tell whether IQ and low light performance fulfills my needs. If not, then I may take look at the Fuji system. Nevertheless, I think Panasonic makes a hell of a camera, and the G85 is a great example. My only wish is that Panasonic will update this form factor with a really good state of the art sensor.

Never ceases to surprise me how many people answer the OP without reading through and seeing if their post is still relevant. Not saying don’t give your opinion, but at least put it in the right context since in this case OP has now bought a camera.

Max5150, enjoy your G85!

Foto4x4 wrote:

Max5150 wrote:

So, I ended up buying a used Panasonic G85 with a 12-60mm 3.5-5.6 lens last week. I really like the way it handles. It feels great in my hands, however, the 4-way buttons on the back are a bit small and could use improved tactility. I'll probably put a dab of moldable rubber on top of them. Anyway, the menu layout is very good. I even like the way it sounds!

I was taking pictures of my kid's soccer game this weekend (when the players were close enough for the 12-60mm lens), and was surprised by the excellent job the G85 did. Focus was fast and spot on, with no dud's. I couldn't believe it!

Time will tell whether IQ and low light performance fulfills my needs. If not, then I may take look at the Fuji system. Nevertheless, I think Panasonic makes a hell of a camera, and the G85 is a great example. My only wish is that Panasonic will update this form factor with a really good state of the art sensor.

Never ceases to surprise me how many people answer the OP without reading through and seeing if their post is still relevant. Not saying don’t give your opinion, but at least put it in the right context since in this case OP has now bought a camera.

Max5150, enjoy your G85!

Thanks (and mwyyc)!

I realize the G85 is slightly older but It's fine. 16mp is plenty to be able to get nice pictures. Hopefully, Panasonic and Olympus update their m43 lines in the near future. Personally, I'd like to see a BSI sensor. Regardless, I don't have a fortune invested in this camera, so I can always sell it and upgrade or move to an APS-C rig.

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Well said Jonathan, and I am still buying Panasonic bodies as well Despite them being so out of date .... must be mad.

although my newly acquired GX9 seems like it will take good pictures, the size difference between it and my GM1 really is more than I was expecting.  I've kept a casual eye out for a GM5 for a long time to have a really compact camera with a VF, but it seems they rarely come up for sale.

Part of the rational behind the GX9, besides wanting to try the new sensor and image processing, was to get a smallish camera with a built in VF and flash.  This really is the only camera that meets those requirements although it is a bit big.  Although the GM5 lacks a BIF it has the VF and I am finding I shoot less and less flash with having a few primes to use in lower light although lack of IBIS makes the GMs a little less useful here.  Personally I would have liked a little smaller camera than the GX9 and maybe given up the tilting VF and a few other things for it being smaller/lighter.

My dream m43 camera would be a GM5 with a BIF instead of the flash shoe (who really puts big flashes on such tiny cameras?).  I'll be realistic and forgo IBIS since that is going to make the camera big and would live with non-tilting rear screen to keep the size down.  The only other thing they need to make is a prime of about 17-20m FL that has IS.  I'll be realistic here also and say I am fine with f2.8, but f2 would be nice if possible.  Imagine a GM5 with updated electronics and a tiny stabilized small prime.  Sounds like heaven to me.

Panasonic (or Oly) are you listening?   ….   crickets chirping

shinndigg wrote:

He bought a used G85 and likes it so far

to hear.  I didn't read every post in the thread so missed that.  Sounds like a solid choice, especially since he seemed to like the G7.

G85 works good. jpeg straight off the camera with the 12-60mm

s_grins wrote:

Max5150 wrote:

G85 works good. jpeg straight off the camera with the 12-60mm

I'm glad you have got a camera for you.

I just want to show what short 2 min care can do to your OOC jpg

Personally, I like the original better. The darker areas framing the road emphasize the light on the road, which in turn emphasizes the shadows of the people. The big tree isn't the subject, just a framing device. It's okay to let it fall into deep shadow. The same goes for the fallen leaves. Brightening them up just clutters up the photo and distracts from the actual subjects. Best to leave (cough) them dark.

Well, it was late and I just posted it from my phone to share what a beautiful fall day it was and that the camera was getting some use. Yes the original needs a little work, and thanks for the "adjustment", that was posted by someone. Unfortunately, the reworked one is going in the wrong direction for me. Sorry! It doesn't convey at all what my vision was or what I actually saw in real life. I guess it's subtle, but reworked kind of takes the life out of it if you ask me. In fact, I bracketed the exposure, so I have that "adjusted" one too. But I wanted the tree a black "skeleton" and I wanted deeper shadows with the people walking off to explore the landscape ahead. Reworked makes the leaves along the path way to distracting, and sparkly. There's nothing interesting about them. I like the leaves to give the "air" of fall but not distract by being in the mid tones. They are just brown dead leaves with no color. Yes, overall it needs a little adjustment, especially the sky. Anyway, I was going to say that last night, but like I said, it was late.