Pany G7 Shutter Shock, how do you know?

johnpatrickbishop wrote:

So this may be a ridiculous question, but how do you know if you're experiencing shutter shock with your G7? I have read about this issue, but also don't trust that I'm not just experiencing camera hypochondria.

Generally I'm very happy with the images I'm getting, but every once in a while it seems like the images aren't very sharp even though I'm shooting at what I think is high enough shutter speeds (1/160 to 1/200) to freeze things.

And shutter shock would go away entirely with an electronic shutter, no?

Am fully open to the possibility that this is purely operator error and that I'm subconsciously building a case for an upgrade that I totally do not need.

As I recall, the G7 has an electronic shutter option, so try some test shots with the same subject and mechanical vs. e-shutter.

You have to be a little bit careful about how you do it, to avoid confounding aperture effects with shutter effects. Ideally, you'd fix the aperture and vary the shutter speed and lighting, but that's kind of a hassle.

Also, you have to watch out for shock interactions. For example, I don't think SS was a big problem with my old GH2 + 14-140. But once, I took some shots with the camera balanced on a wood deck rail, and it was terrible. Must have been some kind of resonance.

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Also DR takes a hit, G7 Raw files are only 10 bits with the e-shutter.

Forgot about that ... that's definitely a downside. My EM5ii doesn't do that.

Chris Noble wrote:

johnpatrickbishop wrote:

So this may be a ridiculous question, but how do you know if you're experiencing shutter shock with your G7? I have read about this issue, but also don't trust that I'm not just experiencing camera hypochondria.

Generally I'm very happy with the images I'm getting, but every once in a while it seems like the images aren't very sharp even though I'm shooting at what I think is high enough shutter speeds (1/160 to 1/200) to freeze things.

And shutter shock would go away entirely with an electronic shutter, no?

Am fully open to the possibility that this is purely operator error and that I'm subconsciously building a case for an upgrade that I totally do not need.

Put a longish zoom lens on it.

Shoot an immobile fine-featured scene with mechanical shutter around 1/125 to 1/160.

Repeat with electronic shutter.

Pixel-peep side by side.

I sold my G7 for that reason.

You don't always see the telltale double-edges of bad SS either. Sometimes it's just general softening. I was amazed at how much better my 100-300 performed, according to mtf_mapper, when I upgraded from GH2 to EM5ii (though part of the difference is probably the AA filter).

I avoided the G7 for the same reason (but I kept the GH2).

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Also DR takes a hit, G7 Raw files are only 10 bits with the e-shutter.

Forgot about that ... that's definitely a downside. My EM5ii doesn't do that.

Yes it does. I just checked a Raw file off DPR for both cameras. They both show missing codes below -7 EV.

I relied on this test:

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2015/04/e-m5-ii-shutters.html

Maybe I'd better run my own.

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Also DR takes a hit, G7 Raw files are only 10 bits with the e-shutter.

Forgot about that ... that's definitely a downside. My EM5ii doesn't do that.

Yes it does. I just checked a Raw file off DPR for both cameras. They both show missing codes below -7 EV.

I relied on this test:

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2015/04/e-m5-ii-shutters.html

Maybe I'd better run my own.

That test is completely subjective. Just look at a Raw histogram and see where the missing codes start.

I don't care if the assessment is subjective, as long as the exposures were properly controlled. There are really two issues - does bit depth decline, and does noise increase?

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Also DR takes a hit, G7 Raw files are only 10 bits with the e-shutter.

Forgot about that ... that's definitely a downside. My EM5ii doesn't do that.

Yes it does. I just checked a Raw file off DPR for both cameras. They both show missing codes below -7 EV.

Something is fishy then - I just checked a trio of EM5ii images and they all have the same bit depth. Published info on the EM5 indicates that it's 12 bit, so either they're curving down to 10 for storage or things are mislabeled or ... ? Will have to dig deeper when I have more time.

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Chris Noble wrote:

TomFid wrote:

I shoot in e-shutter mode most of the time - you just have to watch out for rolling shutter effects on moving subjects or when panning, and switch to mechanical if needed.

Also DR takes a hit, G7 Raw files are only 10 bits with the e-shutter.

Forgot about that ... that's definitely a downside. My EM5ii doesn't do that.

Yes it does. I just checked a Raw file off DPR for both cameras. They both show missing codes below -7 EV.

Something is fishy then - I just checked a trio of EM5ii images and they all have the same bit depth. Published info on the EM5 indicates that it's 12 bit, so either they're curving down to 10 for storage or things are mislabeled or ... ? Will have to dig deeper when I have more time.

The file format for mechanical shutter and electronic shutter is the same, and is either 12-bit (the m-shutter bit depth for Olympus) or maybe even more. But in e-mode, the data itself is 10-bit, with trailing zeros inserted. That's where you see the missing codes on the Raw histogram.

Based on a quick look in RawDigger, missing codes seemed to kick in at the same point in E, M and EFCS. Will have to play around to be sure.

It's 10-bit to limit the rolling shutter effect.

I assume that means that it's a readout-speed thing?

You may not care about the difference, I'm not getting into a subjective conversation about "Image Quality", just pointing out a technical detail.

I thought I did care, because I hate getting posterization when bringing up shadows. But evidently I don't, because I haven't had any complaints. Maybe the noise floor doesn't really justify the extra 2 bits anyway.