DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Senior Member • Posts: 3,214
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

Digital Nigel wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Affinity Photo has a fairly flexible geometry feature. Not automatic but pretty powerful. I haven't played with Viewpoint but AP is good enough and costs the same as Viewpoint by itself.

A Viewpoint question. Does it know how much to increase the height to avoid the "Arc d'Squat" problem? Other software clearly gets it wrong.

L'Arc D'Squat!!!

OK, let's see what DxO Viewpoint does with its one-click perspective correction. There are many triumphal arches around the world, so I thought I'd choose a different, slightly larger one than the better-known one in Paris. In its native language, this one is called 개선문. I took this picture in 2013; personally, I don't think the government that erected this arch can claim credit for the victory it celebrates.

First the uncorrected picture:

No perspective correction

Now, with Viewpoint's one-click automatic 100% perspective correction:

One-click, 100% perspective correction, cropped

I don't like the 100% correction, as it looks too artificial, so here's the image with the correction reduced to 50%. I think this looks more natural:

I think this shows that DxO Viewpoint doesn't squash buildings when applying perspective correction.

Thanks for doing that. I agree it looks fairly good but there is still some distortion. I don't know the North Korean Arch of Triumph but still looks a bit "off" compared to stock photos shot with a longer, less distorting lens. I don't see that as viewpoint's problem. The top looks too large to my eye. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to insert web images of it but here's a link to one . Viewpoint does seem to compensate and provides some control over the amount so it's clearly better. I might give it a trial - being inside PL is a distinct advantage. Just wish it wasn't an extra cost add on.

And, by the way, I think that 100% correction isn't natural. Some amount of perspective distortion is natural. Great to have a tool that gives you control.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Senior Member • Posts: 3,214
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Looks like undo says undoing the last thing you did.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Senior Member • Posts: 3,214
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Looks like undo says undoing the last thing you did.

It's a stack of all your operations - 2 undos undoes the last two things you did, for example.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Looks like undo says undoing the last thing you did.

It's a stack of all your operations - 2 undos undoes the last two things you did, for example.

I noticed that just now. Thanks. Still lacks a visual history.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Senior Member • Posts: 3,214
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Looks like undo says undoing the last thing you did.

It's a stack of all your operations - 2 undos undoes the last two things you did, for example.

I noticed that just now. Thanks. Still lacks a visual history.

I didn't say it was perfect! Visual stack would be a welcome addition.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

There's always undo which works for the entire session.

Looks like undo says undoing the last thing you did.

It's a stack of all your operations - 2 undos undoes the last two things you did, for example.

I noticed that just now. Thanks. Still lacks a visual history.

I didn't say it was perfect! Visual stack would be a welcome addition.

I didn't take it as you did. It is what you are used to. Tough adjustment after 13 years of having a visual stack. The undo is helpful.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 5,844
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Zeee wrote:

I have been playing around with DXO PL. Very good and my back up to LR if I ever drop the plan. I have to say it is pretty lame in one area. Even a temporary adjustment history would be nice so you can see what you did and go back more than one step. I have had that since 2005 starting out with PS. I just use it for Prime. A tough adjustment. It needs this as much as Adobe could use a AI NR tool.

Agree with you! I love DXO PL and I almost never use LR anymore , but something like a (temporary) adjustment history (like LR has), would be great! Sometimes miss that. No "undo" can replace that.

 mujana's gear list:mujana's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony a7R II Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 16-35mm F2.8 +4 more
Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

Editing on the road. I travel with a laptop and when I get home I merge the travel catalogue to the master one on the iMac. DXO has no catalogue so I would just move my files from potable ED  to the powered one where all my files are stored. When I open DXO on the iMac will my edits be retained?

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
bsas
OP bsas Contributing Member • Posts: 617
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

One of the biggest advantages for me of the DxO is that all “edits” aren’t save on a “catalog” but instead they are saved in a sidecar file.

So, as long as you copy that file on the same folders of your photo, you have all your edits.

This works great to edit on my NAS, since all edits are “automatically saved” in my backup if I edit the file directly from the NAS.

 bsas's gear list:bsas's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Sony a7R III Sony a7 III Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +10 more
Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 8,751
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

Zeee wrote:

Editing on the road. I travel with a laptop and when I get home I merge the travel catalogue to the master one on the iMac. DXO has no catalogue so I would just move my files from potable ED to the powered one where all my files are stored. When I open DXO on the iMac will my edits be retained?

Yes, all the edits are stored in the DOP sidecar files (one for each RAW file you've edited). If you copy those along with the original RAW files to the iMac folder, PhotoLab will see and use them.

 Digital Nigel's gear list:Digital Nigel's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Canon PowerShot G7 X Nikon Coolpix P900 Panasonic ZS100 Sony RX10 III +15 more
Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

bsas wrote:

One of the biggest advantages for me of the DxO is that all “edits” aren’t save on a “catalog” but instead they are saved in a sidecar file.

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars. Currently that is disabled. Thanks for the info. Adobe gets a hard time around here but the stuff beyond the editor alone. Smart Previews are awesome. You disconnect the external drive that has your files, take your laptop with you, edit as many of images as you want to. When you come home plug the drive in an it syncs your edits. This is not using the cloud.

So, as long as you copy that file on the same folders of your photo, you have all your edits.

This works great to edit on my NAS, since all edits are “automatically saved” in my backup if I edit the file directly from the NAS.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
Digital Nigel Veteran Member • Posts: 8,751
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Zeee wrote:

bsas wrote:

One of the biggest advantages for me of the DxO is that all “edits” aren’t save on a “catalog” but instead they are saved in a sidecar file.

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars. Currently that is disabled. Thanks for the info. Adobe gets a hard time around here but the stuff beyond the editor alone. Smart Previews are awesome. You disconnect the external drive that has your files, take your laptop with you, edit as many of images as you want to. When you come home plug the drive in an it syncs your edits. This is not using the cloud.

Your workflow would be just the same with PhotoLab, except that no synchronisation is needed. The edits will just be picked up automatically. As an aside you can clone edit versions, so you can have multiple virtual sets of edits you can experiment with.

But why do you hate sidecars?

 Digital Nigel's gear list:Digital Nigel's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Canon PowerShot G7 X Nikon Coolpix P900 Panasonic ZS100 Sony RX10 III +15 more
bsas
OP bsas Contributing Member • Posts: 617
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
4

Zeee wrote:

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars.

Why?

As a software developer, I can tell you that sidecars are far better than a database catalog for a list of reasons:

1) It is an standard XML file (you can actually open in notepad to read it if you are curious). This allows other software to read it. In my case, for example, all my stars and ratings were kept when I switched from LR to DxO just because of the LR sidecar files.

2) It is completely decoupled. If your LR database gets corrupted, you loose ALL your edits on ALL your photos. With sidecard files, if one gets destroyed you just loose that specific edit.

3) It is easy to backup and sync with cloud or external hard drives, including NAS systems, like in my case.

4) Easy to "undo" all your edits. Just delete the sidecar file

 bsas's gear list:bsas's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Sony a7R III Sony a7 III Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +10 more
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Senior Member • Posts: 3,214
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
2

bsas wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars.

Why?

As a software developer, I can tell you that sidecars are far better than a database catalog for a list of reasons:

1) It is an standard XML file (you can actually open in notepad to read it if you are curious). This allows other software to read it. In my case, for example, all my stars and ratings were kept when I switched from LR to DxO just because of the LR sidecar files.

2) It is completely decoupled. If your LR database gets corrupted, you loose ALL your edits on ALL your photos. With sidecard files, if one gets destroyed you just loose that specific edit.

3) It is easy to backup and sync with cloud or external hard drives, including NAS systems, like in my case.

4) Easy to "undo" all your edits. Just delete the sidecar file

beat me to it.  A central DB is a huge risk.  Files don't usually get corrupted on their own but it just takes one hiccup during writing to a central DB. Better to lose one edit that all. Other than directory "clutter", I see no disadvantage to sidecars.

bsas
OP bsas Contributing Member • Posts: 617
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne
1

phil from seattle wrote:

beat me to it. A central DB is a huge risk. Files don't usually get corrupted on their own but it just takes one hiccup during writing to a central DB. Better to lose one edit that all. Other than directory "clutter", I see no disadvantage to sidecars.

100% agreed. For me sidecars are almost necessary as a backup solution if you use LR. I cannot trust the huge single file DB from Adobe

 bsas's gear list:bsas's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Sony a7R III Sony a7 III Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +10 more
Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Digital Nigel wrote:

Zeee wrote:

bsas wrote:

One of the biggest advantages for me of the DxO is that all “edits” aren’t save on a “catalog” but instead they are saved in a sidecar file.

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars. Currently that is disabled. Thanks for the info. Adobe gets a hard time around here but the stuff beyond the editor alone. Smart Previews are awesome. You disconnect the external drive that has your files, take your laptop with you, edit as many of images as you want to. When you come home plug the drive in an it syncs your edits. This is not using the cloud.

Your workflow would be just the same with PhotoLab, except that no synchronisation is needed. The edits will just be picked up automatically. As an aside you can clone edit versions, so you can have multiple virtual sets of edits you can experiment with.

But why do you hate sidecars?

No real reason. They just show up all over the place.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
Jonsi
Jonsi Senior Member • Posts: 3,739
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

phil from seattle wrote:

bsas wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars.

Why?

As a software developer, I can tell you that sidecars are far better than a database catalog for a list of reasons:

1) It is an standard XML file (you can actually open in notepad to read it if you are curious). This allows other software to read it. In my case, for example, all my stars and ratings were kept when I switched from LR to DxO just because of the LR sidecar files.

2) It is completely decoupled. If your LR database gets corrupted, you loose ALL your edits on ALL your photos. With sidecard files, if one gets destroyed you just loose that specific edit.

3) It is easy to backup and sync with cloud or external hard drives, including NAS systems, like in my case.

4) Easy to "undo" all your edits. Just delete the sidecar file

beat me to it. A central DB is a huge risk. Files don't usually get corrupted on their own but it just takes one hiccup during writing to a central DB. Better to lose one edit that all. Other than directory "clutter", I see no disadvantage to sidecars.

Bingo.

I think he just doesn't understand what they are.

Zeee Forum Pro • Posts: 18,810
Re: DxO PhotoLab vs Lightroom vs CaptureOne

Jonsi wrote:

phil from seattle wrote:

bsas wrote:

Zeee wrote:

Oh right. sidecars. I hate sidecars.

Why?

As a software developer, I can tell you that sidecars are far better than a database catalog for a list of reasons:

1) It is an standard XML file (you can actually open in notepad to read it if you are curious). This allows other software to read it. In my case, for example, all my stars and ratings were kept when I switched from LR to DxO just because of the LR sidecar files.

2) It is completely decoupled. If your LR database gets corrupted, you loose ALL your edits on ALL your photos. With sidecard files, if one gets destroyed you just loose that specific edit.

3) It is easy to backup and sync with cloud or external hard drives, including NAS systems, like in my case.

4) Easy to "undo" all your edits. Just delete the sidecar file

beat me to it. A central DB is a huge risk. Files don't usually get corrupted on their own but it just takes one hiccup during writing to a central DB. Better to lose one edit that all. Other than directory "clutter", I see no disadvantage to sidecars.

Bingo.

I think he just doesn't understand what they are.

I know what they are. I used Silkypix about 8 years and I'm still finding them. I prefer a central DB. I have been using LR since 2011 and went through all the updates including the catalogue merge to LR7. I have never had a single issue. I copy the catalogue now and then just in case.

 Zeee's gear list:Zeee's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 1.4x III +5 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads