Where are the Olympus cameras?....

jwilliams wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9

2017 - One last year - E-M10iii

2016 - Three (that’s better) - E-M1ii, Pen F, E-PL8

2015 - Three - most notably, that’s the last E-M5 model...

(source: DPR product timeline)

I’m not saying they need to introduce something every 6 months, but the last couple of years have been a bit baron.

I only looked because I’m wondering, WHERE IS THE E-m5iii ???

to look at that list. For all of 2017 and so far in 2018 all they have done is 'update' 2 cameras while maintaining the very old 16MP sensor. That is a joke really. 2016 seemed like a good year except for the very minimal EPL8 upgrade.

Seems like they have just quit on camera bodies. They have the EM1 II and Pen F with at least semi current tech so I guess they don't care if everything else is way out of date.

Maybe all their effort has been put in the big, heavy, overpriced Pro lenses. Maybe they will get back to making some decent camera bodies for the masses. I doubt it, but one can dream.

and yet in 2018 I've been the happiest I've ever been with my Olympus gear.

In 2018 I've used my Olympus gear more than 80 % of the time vs. my Sony FF gear....(I am still very fond of my Sony gear).

Likely in 2015-2017 I'd say I used my Sony gear 60-90 percent more times than the Olympus stuff.

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9

2017 - One last year - E-M10iii

2016 - Three (that’s better) - E-M1ii, Pen F, E-PL8

2015 - Three - most notably, that’s the last E-M5 model...

(source: DPR product timeline)

I’m not saying they need to introduce something every 6 months, but the last couple of years have been a bit baron.

I only looked because I’m wondering, WHERE IS THE E-m5iii ???

I've never understood the need for constant iteration. The capabilities and reliability of present day camera gear is fantastic, if you can't find a current model to suit your needs there's something wrong.

DLBlack wrote:

Dostoy wrote:

Also, if they do make a replacement for the Pen-F, I hope the designers put larger buttons / directional pad on the back, at least the size of the E-M10 Mark II. Personally, I found the circular direction pad on the Pen-F too small. It seemed to me that there was room to make it bigger.

So very true.

I would also wish they will make it weather-sealed and have it take the large E-M1 Mkii battery.

+1

I'd buy such camera in heartbeat. Heck, I'd even preorder it (first time in my life).

I've thought about second camera as backup but hate idea to deal with different batteries. So camera good enough and sharing EM1 mk2 battery gets my money.

007peter wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9 (just a rebadge EPL8 from 2016

Aside from build-in flash in E-PL9, there is no piratical difference between E-PL8 vs E-PL9. Translation: Olympus didn't make much Engineering Effort in 2018 @all into making camera.

It has a few other upgrades, like 4k. https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=oly_epl8&products=olympus_epl9

Tony Northrup said Olympus has largely given up and being Left behind (see 12:30min). Judging by Olympus LACK OF ACTION, I have to agree.

I don't agree yet, but this is how Nikon 1 died.

gary0319 wrote:

Jonas Palm wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

Kurgo wrote:

RedDog Steve wrote:

Sony has been 'holding back' advanced sensor technology in 4/3 size.

If we had the same rate of sensor advancement as (for example) cell phones we'd have to have new cameras to showcase stacked-BSI, etc.

No need for a steady stream of new bodies with only minor incremental changes.

More like the sales of m43 have been holding back new developments? Sony makes sensors to earn money, if there was a high enough demand I doubt they'd have to "hold back" on r&d on new m43 sensors. Obviously they'll spend r&d on FF ones because Sony also makes FF cameras (and phone sensors because those sell a billion times more than any camera) but the two divisions aren't the same, each has to earn as much money as possible on their own, so if there was a huge demand for m43 sensors Sony'd be thrilled to get the money for it, I should think.

It was already discussed here too, anyway https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4224636

As was noted in your linked-to thread, Sony Semiconductor (not the camera division) will make most any sensor that Olympus cares to contract for. It’s up to Olympus to determine if there will be enough market demand for their new product, not the other way around. Sony Semiconductor needs to make a profit so will contract for the new Olympus spec’d sensor based on the number of sensors that Olympus commits to purchase. Since Olympus sells fewer cameras than Nikon, for instance, Olympus would only be able to commit to a lessor number of sensors and may have to pay a premium. That premium cost will be reflected in the roll-out price of the new camera. If one wants the “latest and greatest” sensor technology in an Olympus camera, it will most likely cost you a premium to get it.

On the other hand, manufacturing cost will be lower with more than four times the sensors per wafer. So once Olympus orders a new design, it is in their own interest to deploy it throughout their product stack (which of course will also make their cameras more competitive.)

While this is true, it doesn't seem to be the way Olympus views it. While the 16mpx variants were pretty widely used in the Pens, E-M5 II, and the E-M10 series, the same is not true with the 20mpx family. The sensor in my Pen F renders different results from the one in my E-M1 II. Maybe not a lot, but noticeable if you have both. I'm assuming there is something different about the sensors, other than just a firmware version (they do have different Sony model numbers)

I'm hoping that the upcoming Super-OMD that is rumored to be in our hands in March will usher in a new technology that will be used in all models, including a new enthusiast 10 series and a follow on Pen F.

Unfortunately, market stratification is a strong tradition in japanese camera manufacturing. In the digital age, this pretty much means that you go from a top model and then re-shape it and functionally cut it down to create your other models. Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Fuji and possibly soon Panasonic also create tiers by sensor size, with the smaller size being cheaper stuff.

Soon Olympus may be the only one who doesn’t hold their smaller sensor cameras back in order to up-sell to their larger format products.

Unfortunately Olympus has taken the "pro sports shooter" camera body as their top tier, which due to the long lenses used for shooting outdoor arena sports have traditionally been the biggest and grabbiest body shapes of all cameras, in direct conflict with the main selling point of m43. This means their smaller alternative bodies are cut down in various other performance aspects that has little to nothing to do with their size per se, but more with their position in the line-up.

Also, as you note, they’ve created their own sensor stratification based on resolution.

Both of these are choices that may or may not be justifiable within the brand but which are terrible decisions in Olympus’ competition vs. both other camera brands and cell phones.

For Olympus at this point in time, the stratification game is suicidal. They need to commission the best sensor they can (not giving away any resolution advantage pointlessly as they don’t have a larger format option to push), and deploy it throughout a reevaluated line-up of products that doesn’t hamstring their more compact offerings needlessly. And then market it as aggressively as they can afford.

Donald B wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9

2017 - One last year - E-M10iii

2016 - Three (that’s better) - E-M1ii, Pen F, E-PL8

2015 - Three - most notably, that’s the last E-M5 model...

(source: DPR product timeline)

I’m not saying they need to introduce something every 6 months, but the last couple of years have been a bit baron.

I only looked because I’m wondering, WHERE IS THE E-m5iii ???

Hard to improve on what we already have

Not really, easy to improve. And EM5 MKIII with phase section, latest CPU 8-core from the EM1MKII (or even say 4 cores).  Get new level of IBIS. New level of AF. New PenF/GX9 sensor.  Better EVF with less lag, OLED.

Better UI!

Don

James Stirling wrote:

Okapi001 wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2016 - Three (that’s better) - E-M1ii, Pen F, E-PL8

They are too good;-) Even after 2 years, E-M1 II is still one of the most feature-rich camera, regardless of system. It's hard to beat 80 mpix hi-res, 60 frames/sec ...

Yep that is why Olympus camera division makes so much money , oh wait....

Neither does The Boring Company's "Not-A-FlameThrower" but they sure are fun.

The 80mpix thing gives at best 50mp of detail it is no better than the results from multiple high MP FF cameras

You say that like it's a bad thing! I can get 50MP OOC from a $1000 pocket cam. Remind me how much those "high MP FF" camera's cost?

, with the serious limitations of having to be bolted to a tripod

Here we go again. This simply isn't the case. The camera must be stationary, that is all.

Camera balanced on a wet log

Camera leaning against a water bottle

I very rarely travel with a tripod and when I do it's a 120g UltraPod.

and only useful on an absolutely static subject.

Or not...

This is no doubt handy within its shooting niche and I am hoping for an evolution of it going forward. You can of course get higher resolution the old fashioned way on any camera stuck on a tripod. It just takes a bit longer in post

Why bother when a $1000 pocket camera can generate a 50MP JPG and upload right from your phone? No need to purchase additional software and camp out at your computer.

We need a genuine jump in image quality not features/gimmicks whatever you non- Luddites want to call them :-).

How much of a jump? To what end? Those "gimmicks" (high-res, live-composite, focus stacking, live bulb, time-lapse, Pro-Capture) accounted for 22% of my 4- and 5- star photos last year. Should I go back and delete those??

Despite the ever amusing claims to the contrary that every Olympus camera since the E-M5 mk1 is a stop better it is abject nonsense { you are probably one of these optimistic chaps } If you added up all the claimed "stops better" in the forum we would have the best image quality in the world

Where was this said? Since you love DxO so much, there was a 13% improvement in sensor score from the EM5 - EM1mkII, yet only a 5% improvement in sensor score from the A7R to A7RIII. How can that be??

Here is the 2012 E-M5 vs the current 20mp E-M1II

Base ISO E-M5 up-sized to match E-MI II , that is a Feb 2012 model vs the best we currently have available , I fail to see years of advances in image quality . If you want features/ gimmicks happy days

3200 ISO I would not even shoot this high with m43, the E-M1II at the same output size is not even a stop better . I do not really care if ISO's above this are marginally less terrible than the other because they are all terrible

Same lack of progress we see in FF high-MP and DR cams over the same 5 year time period.

Base ISO DR the biggest weakness of m43 due to the shadow noise , size of sensor we cannot change and thus that difference is unavoidable. However it is greatly compounded by that damn 200 base ISO . Dpreview does not have DR test for the E-M5 1 but the mark two and other cameras use the same sensor. Think about it a base ISO shooter like myself can get as clean a shadow push on a Sony 1" sensor camera that sensor is roughly half the area of a m43 sensor,

And now you've sacrificed shutter speed. Match the shutter speeds of the D500 and Rx100 to the Olympus and watch what happens. But realistically, who is lifting shadows 5 EV? Why not expose for the shadows then?

Yep we have now had 6 and half years with tiny real world advances in image quality , by the time the wonder camera comes along they will have had over 7 yrs to give us a meaningful upgrade. Which with regards to image quality I would argue they have not give us since Feb 2012, but man those features

This is true across all formats. There haven't been any meaningful IQ improvements in sensors since the 36MP Sony's hit in 2012.

Honest question, Jim. Have you ever used Live Composite, Live Bulb, Pro-Capture, High-Res, or Focus Stacking?

Tuonov2 wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9

2017 - One last year - E-M10iii

2016 - Three (that’s better) - E-M1ii, Pen F, E-PL8

2015 - Three - most notably, that’s the last E-M5 model...

(source: DPR product timeline)

I’m not saying they need to introduce something every 6 months, but the last couple of years have been a bit baron.

I only looked because I’m wondering, WHERE IS THE E-m5iii ???

I've never understood the need for constant iteration. The capabilities and reliability of present day camera gear is fantastic, if you can't find a current model to suit your needs there's something wrong.

that's right... it is the user's fault.  I buy a new car every ten years.  There is no need for the manufacturer to improve their offerings during that decade.

TomFid wrote:

007peter wrote:

cpt kent wrote:

2018 - One new camera this year - E-PL9 (just a rebadge EPL8 from 2016

Aside from build-in flash in E-PL9, there is no piratical difference between E-PL8 vs E-PL9. Translation: Olympus didn't make much Engineering Effort in 2018 @all into making camera.

It has a few other upgrades, like 4k. https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=oly_epl8&products=olympus_epl9

Tony Northrup said Olympus has largely given up and being Left behind (see 12:30min). Judging by Olympus LACK OF ACTION, I have to agree.

I don't agree yet, but this is how Nikon 1 died.

I agree, but Olympus is completely dropping the ball here in terms of marketing: if you don't have anything new to introduce, at least drop hints of exciting new developments that you are working on and tease the public with future possibilities.  Especially in today's connected, Twitter-happy society.

Olympus...has just gone quiet.  I know the plan, don't say anything about what we're doing for the future because it will only cause people to not to buy today.  But when you've not captured general buyer's imaginations for a while, you'd better do something to keep people talking about you (see: how PocketWizard is being left behind)