Olympus should make better midrange options..

I wonder if producing all these $1500-$2000 bodies is really that great a strategy for Olympus (and Panasonic too..). It might be ok short term because it brings them more money but it also scares people from buying into the format and they are going to loose customers to Sony, Fuji, and now Canon and Nikon also have mirrorless..

The current midrange models from Oly aren't very good. Especially that they "dumb down" these cameras on features like control dials and interface and advertise them as cameras for selfie crowd. The e-pl9 and em10 mk iii both have this problem. I would instantly buy a new Olympus if it was just a compact body,  modern sensor and at least two dials and a touchscreen. They can save other features for the flagships like weather sealing, better autofocus, high framerate, bigger battery life etc. But the cheaper options should also have appeal for real photographers.

Currently to have a noticeable upgrade from my e-p3 I would have to drop big dollars on a Pen f. And the competition at this price point is fierce, I could buy a Fuji, a sony a7, a Pentax Kp, sony a6500, a high end Panasonic etc. That are all compact and have great IQ.

Panasonic have more choice there but their most appealing gm line is getting older and older and annoyingly they reserve better jpeg processing for more expensive models

Your thoughts?

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

Belgarchi wrote:

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

That $999 for Pen F is a great deal. Unfortunately where I live (Europe)  it still sells for about $1500 body only which is hardly midrange. And that is quite a long time after release date. They need a good cheaper midrange model IMO

My thoughts are that you are very lucky with the timing of your urge to upgrade your Olympus Pen EP3.

Buy yourself a bargain priced Olympus EM10 II. They are being sold off cheaply now, as they clear old stock to replace it with the new (and inferior) EM10 mark iii.

The EM10 ii price is the best bargain an Olympus shooter could ask for! It is also a massive upgrade from your EP3. It is all the camera you will ever need...unless you want to go into a specialist field like pro sport photography.

You say you would 'instantly buy a new Olympus if it was just a compact body, modern sensor and at least two dials and a touchscreen'...Well, the EM10 II is that camera. The only way to get a noticeably better Olympus sensor is to buy the much bigger and super expensive EM 1 mark ii, I'm afraid. The 16 MP sensor is still brilliant, though! A massive improvement from the older 12 MP sensor.

Over your EP3, the EM10 ii will give you a huge sensor advantage including in ISO and DR. It will give you a superb viewfinder that will transform your shooting for the better. It will give you better ergonomics, better customization options, better IBIS, better video, live composite...and a whole host of other new features and improvements. All this while still being a small, light and beautifully made camera.

Of course, you could spend much more and get the slightly better EM5 II (main differences are weatherproofing, mic input, fully articulated LCD vs tilt screen, tethering for studio shooting, hi res shooting from a tripod) but as far as value for money in Olympus goes...the EM10 ii is absolutely unbeatable.

I agree that the beautiful Pen F has a high premium on it. A 'style tax', as it were. Not so with the equally capable EM10 II.

I'd recommend that anyone looking for a bargain, highly competent Olympus camera snap up an EM10 II before they are all sold out.

I've thought about it. Of course, it is a good bargain now. I'd prefer a pen body but the em10 ii is a solid camera.

It is an older 16mp sensor though. I wish they just made a cheaper pen f  without the viewfinder and some other bells and whistles

MaciekPruski wrote:

I wonder if producing all these $1500-$2000 bodies is really that great a strategy for Olympus (and Panasonic too..). It might be ok short term because it brings them more money but it also scares people from buying into the format and they are going to loose customers to Sony, Fuji, and now Canon and Nikon also have mirrorless..

The current midrange models from Oly aren't very good. Especially that they "dumb down" these cameras on features like control dials and interface and advertise them as cameras for selfie crowd. The e-pl9 and em10 mk iii both have this problem. I would instantly buy a new Olympus if it was just a compact body, modern sensor and at least two dials and a touchscreen. They can save other features for the flagships like weather sealing, better autofocus, high framerate, bigger battery life etc. But the cheaper options should also have appeal for real photographers.

Currently to have a noticeable upgrade from my e-p3 I would have to drop big dollars on a Pen f. And the competition at this price point is fierce, I could buy a Fuji, a sony a7, a Pentax Kp, sony a6500, a high end Panasonic etc. That are all compact and have great IQ.

Panasonic have more choice there but their most appealing gm line is getting older and older and annoyingly they reserve better jpeg processing for more expensive models

Your thoughts?

Well I have the E-M5 II and had the E-M5 before the Mk II. The midrange of the OM-D line. Been very happy with them in fact I used to shoot weddings with the E-M5 along side of my E-30. And while I don't do weddings anymore if I did I'd be more then comfortable using the E-M5 II as my primary if I had to.

I still use my E-P2, my first M4/3 camera. I'm not sure how big of a jump the E-P3 is over the E-P2 but I know the E-M10 and the E-M10 II are a pretty big step above the E-P2 and can be found pretty cheap lightly used or reconditioned online.

I do wish Panasonic came out with a GM6 or 7 but I've adapted to bigger pockets, size being the reason for my like of the GM line. Its not that big of a issue to me now.

perry rhodan wrote:

Masefield wrote:

My thoughts are that you are very lucky with the timing of your urge to upgrade your Olympus Pen EP3.

Buy yourself a bargain priced Olympus EM10 II. They are being sold off cheaply now, as they clear old stock to replace it with the new (and inferior) EM10 mark iii.

The EM10 ii price is the best bargain an Olympus shooter could ask for! It is also a massive upgrade from your EP3. It is all the camera you will ever need...unless you want to go into a specialist field like pro sport photography.

You say you would 'instantly buy a new Olympus if it was just a compact body, modern sensor and at least two dials and a touchscreen'...Well, the EM10 II is that camera. The only way to get a noticeably better Olympus sensor is to buy the much bigger and super expensive EM 1 mark ii, I'm afraid. The 16 MP sensor is still brilliant, though! A massive improvement from the older 12 MP sensor.

Over your EP3, the EM10 ii will give you a huge sensor advantage including in ISO and DR. It will give you a superb viewfinder that will transform your shooting for the better. It will give you better ergonomics, better customization options, better IBIS, better video, live composite...and a whole host of other new features and improvements. All this while still being a small, light and beautifully made camera.

Of course, you could spend much more and get the slightly better EM5 II (main differences are weatherproofing, mic input, fully articulated LCD vs tilt screen, tethering for studio shooting, hi res shooting from a tripod) but as far as value for money in Olympus goes...the EM10 ii is absolutely unbeatable.

I agree that the beautiful Pen F has a high premium on it. A 'style tax', as it were. Not so with the equally capable EM10 II.

I'd recommend that anyone looking for a bargain, highly competent Olympus camera snap up an EM10 II before they are all sold out.

NO! Get the PenF for 850 EU new.

Where? The cheapest in my county is 1200 Euro and I see amazon has them for about 1050 euro on sale now.

nostradamus_8 wrote:

MaciekPruski wrote:

Belgarchi wrote:

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

That $999 for Pen F is a great deal. Unfortunately where I live (Europe) it still sells for about $1500 body only which is hardly midrange. And that is quite a long time after release date. They need a good cheaper midrange model IMO

So you want to buy a midrange camera for entry level price. Makes sense for you, for Olympus not so much. I think Olympus prices make sense all the way through the product line.

Ha Ha.

If you compare, the lastest entry model of Nikon is the 3600 for 500.-: 24MP with lens; also see Fuji A models.

Mid range is about 650 - 1000. And yes, there is the G80/81/85, still with 16 MP and the GX9. The Pen F is growing rather old, too, and now fits into this category.

Peter

nostradamus_8 wrote:

MaciekPruski wrote:

Belgarchi wrote:

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

That $999 for Pen F is a great deal. Unfortunately where I live (Europe) it still sells for about $1500 body only which is hardly midrange. And that is quite a long time after release date. They need a good cheaper midrange model IMO

So you want to buy a midrange camera for entry level price. Makes sense for you, for Olympus not so much. I think Olympus prices make sense all the way through the product line.

Not really. I guess it boils down to what you call midrange and what is a midrange price. $1000-1200 body only is midrange for me. $1500 isn't.

Maybe they need better entry level models then. I don't know, but the fact is that if you want to buy a current model with some decent physical controls the cost is quite high. For me the real sweet spot in m4/3 is a small body like Olympus pen or Panasonic gm with small nice lenses like the pancake zooms and 1-2 primes like the panasonic 25mm f1. 7, sigma 19 or 60mm primes, olympus 12mm or 45mm primes etc. Once you have to buy a very expensive body with a "pro" zoom I don't really see much sense, I'd rather get an aps-c or ff system at the same price and similar weight/size.

MaciekPruski wrote:

I've thought about it. Of course, it is a good bargain now. I'd prefer a pen body but the em10 ii is a solid camera.

It is an older 16mp sensor though. I wish they just made a cheaper pen f without the viewfinder and some other bells and whistles

There is nothing wrong with the Olympus 16 MP sensor. It delivers fully professional results...beautiful jpegs, usable to 3,200 ISO, and very malleable RAW files. That was the major improvement...jumping from 12 MP to 16 MP. It was almost a quantum leap! The move from 16 MP to 20 MP was very minor in comparison.

Even when pixel peeping, I can't really see a difference between the 16 MP sensor and the 20 MP sensor of the PEN F. However, I can see a small improvement with the 20 MP sensor of the EM1 ii.

If your heart is set on an advanced rangefinder form...why not consider Panasonic's offerings? The GX80/85 is also a real bargain price right now. Some people actually prefer it to the Olympus EM10 II.

The GX80/85 also meets your criteria of 'compact body, modern sensor and at least two dials and a touchscreen' .

Belgarchi wrote:

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

I have spent many hours watching reviews of top of the line Olympus and Panasonic models and have found lots of reasons why I don't want them, even though they might offer VERY slight advantages over my mid-range (I think) model...like maybe 1/2 a stop of better high ISO performance.

Number one objection to the top of the line models is the totally articulated lcd.  While it might come in handy for video (and there are complaints about the fact that when turned out out they interfere with cable connections to the camera) I PREFER just a tilting lcd because I do a lot of event photography and I want to be stealthy.  Just tilting up the lcd is much less obvious than opening up the lcd and spreading it out.

Number two and three objections are size and weight.  I switched to micro43 to be relieved of the torture of carrying a dslr and heavy lens combination.  I really appreciate the light weight of the em10 ii.  (I scored a great price on a refurbed second em10 ii body at getolympus.com - only $299  What a steal!)

I find the fill-in flash of my mid-range models very helpful for micro photography;

My mid-range models (em10 ii, gx7, and epl 5) offer far more options than I'll ever need and they do the job I want them to.  Except for the e-pl5s I can use wi-fi to send pics to my phone or tablet - very handy when I want to send a picture to a newspaper.

Image quality is stellar.

I am not in lust for new bodies OR lenses - while it would be nice to have lenses with wider apertures for low light work, their extra weights and prices turn me off.

While I have the Panasonic 12-35 and Olympus 12-40,and Panasonic 35-100 and have used them extensively in event photography, their maximum aperture of f/2.8 is sometimes not maximum enough, so now I'm using the Oly 17mm f/1.8 and 45mm f/1.8.

Isabel

As well as the Panasonic rangefinder styled cameras, there is also the Olympus Pen EP5 to consider, if you don't mind picking up a used copy.

It has the Olympus 16 MP sensor, which was the big jump that really matters to you. As I said, the next jump from 16 MP up to 20 MP was very marginal in the PEN F. I found it almost impossible to see an improvement, even when pixel peeping.

Also check this out:

https://camerasize.com/compact/#633,654,459,ha,t

Side by side, you'll see the Olympus EM10 II is about the same size and actually lighter than the PEN F and the EP5. In fact it is almost exactly the same weight as your current EP3.

The size of the EM10 series is deceptive. They can look bigger than they actually are, in photographs. Seeing the EM10 cameras 'in the flesh', they are surprisingly small.

jwilliams wrote:

Belgarchi wrote:

Well, the mid-range options are plenty: E-M10-III, E-M5-II, Pen-F, many Panasonic...

What I miss the most are very light / small bodies. There was the GM5 at ~200g. There are many options in the 400-500g range. What I really want is a GM5++ around 300g.

2 of those 3 are 16Mp and the 3rd isn't exactly a midrange camera.

Where O&P find the people to buy cameras with 6 yr old tech at the same price or more as other larger format cameras is beyond me. All APSC camera have been at 24 MP for years now. When they switched they did it for ALL the camera models. They didn't screw their existing user base by putting the newer tech in only a few select higher priced models. It is pathetic that the 20Mp chip has been out for about 3 years now and it still is in only a handful of expensive cameras.

As the owner of both a Mk1 and Mk2 E-M1 I can tell you that there really isn't a whole of of real world difference between the 16 and 20Mp sensors. If you think they "ALL" switched to the latest tech, you need to take a really close look at Canon.

Like a lot of users on here, you seem to want all the tech from the top end model but on something thats about half the price. Really like to know how that would benefit any company who is in business to make a profit. Seriously, why would anyone buy an EM-1 if the EM-5 had all the same tech/features at half the price?

If you want all the high end "stuff", buy a used EM-1 mk1; they are cheap and even after all this time, a great camera.